The Open Carry Argument


Well, DOH, South Carolina is one of a handful of states that infringe on the 2nd amendment.

OK, I'll bite. Exactly what other states are in that "handful", and how do we infringe on the 2nd A ?
And how does the state in which you live differ from S.C. and the others that are part of the "handfull" ?
 

Yeah, right! At Barnes & Noble?????????????

If you are having a gun owners meet & greet", do the rest of us a favor and put up a banner declaring it a "gunshow", so the rest of the public will be warned.

And how will you be dressed for this event? Will all of you ride up on your Harleys, dressed in black leather jackets and chaps, with Studded Leather holster belts holding S&W 357 magnums? What image do YOU think that projects to the innocent public? In a city/county park where families are walking their dogs and children.

Or do you use a little grey matter, and have the professionalism to dress up in business suits, with ties? Now, what image would THAT project? I'm sure yo will agree it would project an entirely DIFFERENT image.

It's all in the "presentation", and that is what we are trying to get across to you. Is it your RIGHT to do it anyway you want? YES!
Is it the best way? ABSOLUTELY NOT! Unfortunately, acting like a bunch of uneducated rednecks, without any show of upbringing, or class, is YOUR RIGHT too. There is nothing illegal about it. But it sure is ugly to watch...by gun owners or the general public.

well for starters, i really dont care what the "innocent public" thinks of my image. i dont carry to please them in the first place. majority are anti-gun anyways. why should i conform to their desires? the public will think what they will regardless. if im going to be judged by how much "class" i have based on my looks, then i have no class, nor do i want to.

wearing a suit? are you serious? i have no desire to dress like a federal agent and put on a show to look like something im NOT. theres an old saying about not judging a book by its cover. i guess you havent herd it. you can worry about your image all you want. i could care less. the American people have gone soft. theres no way around that. and im not about to contribute to the mis-informed public's view on firearms, nor try to hide the fact that i carry a weapon. if people dont like open carry, then thats on them. not me.
 
GOV5:247687 said:
The local car club here meets several times a year at several area local parks. They all gather and park their cars in the park and talk to each other about parts and restoration, etc...

Where is the outcry over them? Meet and greets by gun carriers are no different.

Yeah, right! At Barnes & Noble?????????????

If you are having a gun owners meet & greet", do the rest of us a favor and put up a banner declaring it a "gunshow", so the rest of the public will be warned.

And how will you be dressed for this event? Will all of you ride up on your Harleys, dressed in black leather jackets and chaps, with Studded Leather holster belts holding S&W 357 magnums? What image do YOU think that projects to the innocent public? In a city/county park where families are walking their dogs and children.

Or do you use a little grey matter, and have the professionalism to dress up in business suits, with ties? Now, what image would THAT project? I'm sure yo will agree it would project an entirely DIFFERENT image.

It's all in the "presentation", and that is what we are trying to get across to you. Is it your RIGHT to do it anyway you want? YES!
Is it the best way? ABSOLUTELY NOT! Unfortunately, acting like a bunch of uneducated rednecks, without any show of upbringing, or class, is YOUR RIGHT too. There is nothing illegal about it. But it sure is ugly to watch...by gun owners or the general public.

You have a very skewed view of a meet and greet. Do you ask all carriers if they dress in baggy pants and big hoodies and carry around "forty fo's" or desert eagles? You can make up as many asinine descriptions of a carrier as you want, and some one some where probably fits that description, but 99% of us don't ride Harley's and carry 357 magnums. 99% of the people attending meet and greets here don't look like red necks. Maybe that's the way they are in SC, but it seems by your description of SC, it's a very restrictive and policed state, and maybe red necks are the only people that would want to live there. Though, I feel your other SC patrons wouldn't feel the same way.

Meet and greets are not gun shows btw. They have little to do with the gun itself, and more to do with the person and rights behind it.

I find gun owners that make up degrading descriptions of carriers to try and get their point across as ugly. I find the Brady bunch to be ugly for the same reason.
 
OK, I'll bite. Exactly what other states are in that "handful", and how do we infringe on the 2nd A ?
And how does the state in which you live differ from S.C. and the others that are part of the "handfull" ?
The following states do not allow Open Carry, with the possible exception of hunting.
Texas
Oklahoma
Arkansas
Illinois
Florida
South Carolina
New York
The District of Columbia

To which you can add, California doesn't allow loaded open carry, and they recently banned the open carry of unloaded handguns, which of course means Californians can only OC an unloaded longarm now.

In South Carolina, you can't even OC WITH a license/permit. Although, you can have a loaded pistol in the glove box.

In Michigan, I can OC a firearm, without a license/permit in most locations. There are some exceptions, however, if I have a CPL, then the number of places where I can OC, increases.

As for the rest, I don't know how you see infringement, but most of the people I know see any regulation as infringement. I'm not saying I do, but there are a good number of people who do. Personally, I've always felt the only gun law we need in this country is the 2nd Amendment. The problem with "reasonable gun control," is you never know who's definition of "reasonable" is going to be used.
 
You have a very skewed view of a meet and greet. Do you ask all carriers if they dress in baggy pants and big hoodies and carry around "forty fo's" or desert eagles? You can make up as many asinine descriptions of a carrier as you want, and some one some where probably fits that description, but 99% of us don't ride Harley's and carry 357 magnums. 99% of the people attending meet and greets here don't look like red necks. Maybe that's the way they are in SC, but it seems by your description of SC, it's a very restrictive and policed state, and maybe red necks are the only people that would want to live there. Though, I feel your other SC patrons wouldn't feel the same way.

Meet and greets are not gun shows btw. They have little to do with the gun itself, and more to do with the person and rights behind it.

I find gun owners that make up degrading descriptions of carriers to try and get their point across as ugly. I find the Brady bunch to be ugly for the same reason.
Most self respecting red necks I know, would never put up with that much regulation. :smile:
 
In South Carolina, if someone tries that "I'm gonna exercise my rights" crap, they go straight to the jailhouse. Reason: You are required to present your driver's license, proof of insurance, and registration. If you are a permit holder, your are required to present that also and inform the officer you are carrying, )and where it is on your body, if you are smart).

Not quite correct. I assume you are talking about a traffic stop, but it makes no difference. If you are carrying a concealed weapon AND the LEO BOTH informs you he is a LEO AND asks for ID or Drivers License, "a permit holder must inform a law enforcement officer of the fact that he is a permit holder and present the permit identification card when an officer".

You have no obligation by law to actually state whether or not you are carrying. Your choice, however, could get you taken to the pokey, right or wrong.

Article 4 of Chapter 31 of Title 23: Link Removed (section K)
 
Your state is not a Gold Star state when it comes to Open carry, so you can only crow so loud. There are only a few states that allow Constitutional Carry, so until your state is one of them, you still have some work to do.

Sure, I'd like to have the ability to open carry if I wanted. But I have to admit, I'd probably conceal carry most of the time. Just my preference. Since we've never had open carry, I guess it's just what I've gotten comfortable with. But, my conceal carry is in a case that looks like a PDA case, on the OUTSIDE of my belt. I am not comfortable with those inside the waistband holsters.

WE have a petition right now for open carry in our legislature. I think it will pass this coming year. Each state has different laws. You still have to get a permit in your state for conceal carry. For those in favor of that style, you state isn't Gold Star....i.e.,....they make you get a permit. So it depends on your carry views as to which states are "friendly".

South Carolina requires training, and I don't see a problem with that. In today's litigious society, knowing the laws is very important if you carry a gun, concealed or open. Personally, I don't think we got enough training on the law part of it. So, any state that does not require training as part of the concealed carry permit process, we deny reciprocation. Your state must require training because we have reciprocity with each other.

The U.S. house just passed H 822, the National Reciprocity Law. I hope the Senate brings it to the floor and passes it. I don't think the Democrat-controlled Senate wants to be on the wrong side of the 2nd Amendment during an election year. Besides, this gun issue is not nearly as partisan as most things are. This bill passed the House by a 2:1 margin. That's huge! There are a lot of Democrats that are pro 2nd Amendment. Even Senate Leader Harry Reid got funds for a real nice shooting range in Nevada.

I would have rather seen this issue settled in Chicago in the McDonald case, but the NRA wimped out and didn't include the issue in it's case to the Supreme Court. I don't like reciprocity coming from the Federal Govt on an issue that is already in our law..the 2nd A. But it might be a first step in finally getting the 2nd Amendment applied as it should be.
 
"You have no obligation by law to actually state whether or not you are carrying. Your choice, however, could get you taken to the pokey, right or wrong."

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LOL! Yeah, you're right..off to the jailhouse you go. Some things don't have to be law. They are just common sense. Inform the officer that you are carrying, and where it is. Also state: " For that reason, for your safety, AND MINE, I will not make a move unless instructed by you, and the moves will be VERY SLOW.

Are we required to say that in S.C.? NO! Does it make the officer feel safer? YES!! Look, most of the time the LEO s carrying a much bigger gun than me, and they are nervous anyway. I want them as calm as possible, for MY safety! I don't want some nervous rookie thinking I made a move for my weapon and emptying a Glock 22 on me. LOL!
 
"theres an old saying about not judging a book by its cover. i guess you havent herd it."

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Of course I've heard it, but I think in your case, the "cover of the book" is pretty descriptive.

And us Harley riders have a saying too, and it definitely applies here.

"If I have to explain it, you won't understand."
 
You have a very skewed view of a meet and greet. Do you ask all carriers if they dress in baggy pants and big hoodies and carry around "forty fo's" or desert eagles? You can make up as many asinine descriptions of a carrier as you want, and some one some where probably fits that description, but 99% of us don't ride Harley's and carry 357 magnums. 99% of the people attending meet and greets here don't look like red necks. Maybe that's the way they are in SC, but it seems by your description of SC, it's a very restrictive and policed state, and maybe red necks are the only people that would want to live there. Though, I feel your other SC patrons wouldn't feel the same way.

Meet and greets are not gun shows btw. They have little to do with the gun itself, and more to do with the person and rights behind it.

I find gun owners that make up degrading descriptions of carriers to try and get their point across as ugly. I find the Brady bunch to be ugly for the same reason.


If it walks like a duck.............

Uh, you're wrong about the 99% don't ride Harleys too. I ride a Harley, and have for years, and I carry a Smith& Wesson.

And the "meet & greets" aren't what you say they are either. They are "staged" events to make a political point. Just like Occupy Wall Streeters. Heck, at least have the guts to say what you're doing. I've seen them on TV and in gun Magazines, and I didn't like them, so I'm positive it didn't present well to our opponents.

For those of you that think "looks don't matter", you are kidding yourselves. Appearance tells a lot in most cases. If you say you don't care what you look like, and you don't care what others think about you, you have failed in your thinking. You have just made about as big of a statement, in a LOUD voice as you can about yourself. And it isn't a POSITIVE ONE EITHER!

When you make a decision to strap on that gun, you have thrown some attitudes out the window. You are now in a world of new responsibility. To yourself, your community, and fellow gun owners. Some of us live in states where getting a permit to carry a gun isn't the easiest thing in the world to do. Some of us live in states that have upcoming legislation that could affect our rights. Currently, we have a bill in the U.S. Congress that does that. We all depend on each other to present a positive image to our community, so that ALL of us are viewed in a favorable light.
 
To the individual who said " Looks like a redneck " please do describe exactly what a redneck looks like so we all can be on the lookout for these people. As a side note please explain where the term redneck came from and when it was fist used IF you can. I'm betting you have not a clue !!!
 
"You have no obligation by law to actually state whether or not you are carrying. Your choice, however, could get you taken to the pokey, right or wrong."

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX B N M

LOL! Yeah, you're right..off to the jailhouse you go. Some things don't have to be law. They are just common sense. Inform the officer that you are carrying, and where it is. Also state: " For that reason, for your safety, AND MINE, I will not make a move unless instructed by you, and the moves will be VERY SLOW.

Are we required to say that in S.C.? NO! Does it make the officer feel safer? YES!! Look, most of the time the LEO s carrying a much bigger gun than me, and they are nervous anyway. I want them as calm as possible, for MY safety! I don't want some nervous rookie thinking I made a move for my weapon and emptying a Glock 22 on me. LOL!

Just curious, is the GOV in your screen name short for "government". Sure sounds like it is to me.
 
If it walks like a duck.............

Uh, you're wrong about the 99% don't ride Harleys too. I ride a Harley, and have for years, and I carry a Smith& Wesson.

And the "meet & greets" aren't what you say they are either. They are "staged" events to make a political point. Just like Occupy Wall Streeters. Heck, at least have the guts to say what you're doing. I've seen them on TV and in gun Magazines, and I didn't like them, so I'm positive it didn't present well to our opponents.

For those of you that think "looks don't matter", you are kidding yourselves. Appearance tells a lot in most cases. If you say you don't care what you look like, and you don't care what others think about you, you have failed in your thinking. You have just made about as big of a statement, in a LOUD voice as you can about yourself. And it isn't a POSITIVE ONE EITHER!

When you make a decision to strap on that gun, you have thrown some attitudes out the window. You are now in a world of new responsibility. To yourself, your community, and fellow gun owners. Some of us live in states where getting a permit to carry a gun isn't the easiest thing in the world to do. Some of us live in states that have upcoming legislation that could affect our rights. Currently, we have a bill in the U.S. Congress that does that. We all depend on each other to present a positive image to our community, so that ALL of us are viewed in a favorable light.

I agree with several points here, but lets not forget that just being able to share our opinions with each other here, is a wonderful thing? When free thinking people all over the world get their civil rights infringed upon daily; we still live in America, and have rights.

Political convenience "occupy" is exactly what meet & greets, and gun walks are. Part time gathering of like-minded individuals. But it is, what it is folks. Coming from Ohio, where little by little we are gaining ground on certain aspects of legal carry; I for one, don't necessarily want, or agree with the 20-30 gun walkers who say they are meeting to "exercise" their 2nd amendment rights? I don't want to lose my open carry rights like California just did. And how the NRA, or other gun lobbying group allowed it to happen, is beyond me? What good did it do them to exercise their rights? Nothing, because LE was being swamped with calls about a "man with a gun"! Instead of the Atty. General's office making a public announcement about gun owners rights to carry, nothing was done, and the gun owners of California lost their right? I agree with exercising your rights, not just a mob, or group. It brings with it, too much negative exposure.

I'm alot like the rest of you guys....veteran, husband, father, tax payer, hunter, etc... NO? Well, that just goes to show you don't it? We are not all alike. When I assume that we are alike, I'm wrong. Not all of you are a "veteran, husband, father, tax payer, hunter, etc...are you?

Just because I believe in the Constitutional right to Open Carry; doesn't mean I believe that group carry is sending the right message RIGHT NOW. Not when we are slowly making advances in certain carrying aspects, "however small they may be". And what may work for you, may not work for me, or "my" personal agenda.

Personally, I find most, not all of the open carry videos on youtube.com are nothing but bitching, griping, and moaning. If you are so well versed in the Constitutional law, and other gun laws of your State; then why do you need to rally? You've got it all figured out already? Because most of these events are scheduled in certain cities, or towns where an individual or small group of people's rights to openly carry were violated. Or believed to be violated. I'm not saying thats always the case, but they're are some strong coincedences? And I'm not saying that this is all bad either. I think with some proper planning, such an event would be tremendously helpful to educating the public on gun rights, and activities. Pro-gun speakers, especially local politicians, can pave the way to understanding. I just don't think people in general...want to see a bunch of gun-toting locals shoving guns down their throats? It's just like the smoking ban in bars?

People come from all different walks of life. Morals, eithics, and values vary as much as opinions on this forum. Personally, I would like to see the open carrying of firearms, as much as I see a woman carrying a purse! I think exercising your rights as a law abiding citizen will go farther, than the pissed off right fighter. That's just my opinion. I understand my rights. I understand your passion when it comes the right to bear arms. I just think there's a better way to get the message across? Someone needs to step up from the NRA. Or maybe it's an attorney? Or a chief of Police? Or a ccw instructor? Or the mayor of a community? Or maybe it's you? But it's as important a message. Just as important as the people giving it. So yes, appearances do matter, especially since we live in a visually aware society. I think of "Deliverance" when I see some of these scarey ass people who are being videoed. They are scarey! I'm sorry, but scarey people with guns is not the message I want my anti-gun friends to see when I'm trying to educate them about our gun rights.

It is what it is....I'm all for open/concealed carry. I don't want any laws to infringe on my right to bear arms. But I also don't need 20-30 BillyBobs from the trailer park, to walk arm and arm with me to the village municipal building, carrying 2nd Amendment signs, and chanting "We the people".... I think there are better ways to get the message out there. And shame on the gun lobbyists, gun televised shows, and gun manufacturers, who should be representing us where our 2nd amendment rights are concerned!
 
What good did it do them to exercise their rights?

What good is having a right if it cannot be exercised due to fear of government action?

Personally, I find most, not all of the open carry videos on youtube.com are nothing but bitching, griping, and moaning. If you are so well versed in the Constitutional law, and other gun laws of your State; then why do you need to rally? You've got it all figured out already? Because most of these events are scheduled in certain cities, or towns where an individual or small group of people's rights to openly carry were violated. Or believed to be violated. I'm not saying thats always the case, but they're are some strong coincedences? And I'm not saying that this is all bad either. I think with some proper planning, such an event would be tremendously helpful to educating the public on gun rights, and activities. Pro-gun speakers, especially local politicians, can pave the way to understanding. I just don't think people in general...want to see a bunch of gun-toting locals shoving guns down their throats? It's just like the smoking ban in bars?

You have to remember - you aren't going to see the group of 10 or 12 people meeting at a local restaurant, where they have made reservations, where they know that management respects the 2nd Amendment, getting together and talking about any and every subject and just happen to have guns on their belts. Why? Because that would be incredibly boring. Yet it happens every day. That is what 90% of the meet and greets are. No different than a group of hunters meeting with their orange hats/vests and camo suits. Heck, no different than a couple of cops meeting in uniform or military personnel, or soccer moms. We like to point to the 1% of crap that makes it on youtube and, as you put it, *****, gripe and moan about it when what is posted on youtube has very little to do with open carry in real life.
 
What good is having a right if it cannot be exercised due to fear of government action?



You have to remember - you aren't going to see the group of 10 or 12 people meeting at a local restaurant, where they have made reservations, where they know that management respects the 2nd Amendment, getting together and talking about any and every subject and just happen to have guns on their belts. Why? Because that would be incredibly boring. Yet it happens every day. That is what 90% of the meet and greets are. No different than a group of hunters meeting with their orange hats/vests and camo suits. Heck, no different than a couple of cops meeting in uniform or military personnel, or soccer moms. We like to point to the 1% of crap that makes it on youtube and, as you put it, *****, gripe and moan about it when what is posted on youtube has very little to do with open carry in real life.

Can you please explain to us...the difference between what we're hearing on here, and what we're seeing on youtube.com? I'm trying to find it myself? Remember, I'm all for open carry. What I'm not for, is parading at any venue within a group to push a Constitutional rights agenda.

Meeting down to Joe's Barbershop for morning coffee with my gun-toting bretheren is one thing. Meeting there to march up and down main street, is quite another? Just because you can, doesn't necessarily mean you should? I think there are other ways to address the public on certain issues. Guns, and possession of guns more importantly, have been a debate among free men in our country even before the Constitution was created.

I've been a truck driver for over 16 years. There has been a need for change concerning fuel price regulations, for commercial vehicles, since the early 80's. Yet you can't get 3 truck drivers to agree on one thing to bring about a positive change. I think there are similarities in our debating of how to present positive change among gunowners as well? But being able to come on here, and share experiences, attitudes, opinions, and ideas are more than you'll ever get with a bunch of truck drivers. So it's a good thing.

While I'm fascinated with the whole idea of meet & greets, along with gun walks down main street USA; I rarely, if ever hear the outcome of any of them? Good or bad? Why? Because the message isn't being heard by the right people. Or the message is being distorted with anti-gun rhetoric, before the people who really need to hear it, actually hear it truthfully.

Maybe the mayor of a town will ask his chief of police "what is going on out there?" The chief says, "relax Mr. Mayor, we have things under control...it's just a group of gun nuts marching up and down main street." "What do they want"? asks the Mayor? "I don't know, but I sent our guys out there to find out" says the chief of police. "Well, tell them not to march in front of the church, my wife's having brunch with the other church ladies there today", says the Mayor. "No problem" says the chief of police.

Now...if the gun-toting nuts would have called Channel 3 news, a more realistic portrayal, and message to the public could be heard. The people who need to hear the story, become part of the story. After interviewing the gun-toting nuts, the news crew could then interview the mayor, and the chief of police about the truth of OCing in your State. That's when the butter meets the bread! That's when you find out where your problems are, and where the truth is finally heard.

Just walking up and down main street, isn't sending the right message. Get a permit if need be, and have a public rally with key speakers. Post fliers, and invite local businessmen. Invite the mayor, the city law director, the chief of police, the county sheriff, local church leaders, county commissioners, state representatives, etc... Make sure they are mentioned as being invited, and thank the ones who actually showed up. You want to show your committed to having your uninfringed right to bear arms? Then do it! Don't sit on here and debate with each other. Make the phone calls, and put out the fliers. Your fight isn't with me over whether or not to open carry...I'm with ya all the way on that. Your fight is out there....among the people, local government, local LE, anti-gun activists, etc...

Meet & Greets are not sending the proper message. If its sending any message at all? It starts with the local news, then the state agencies pick it up, and if it's presented properly and popularly, it will be heard nationally. It does have to start somewhere...but not like I've been seeing it done. Let the media tell the story, and leave the video cameras and camera phones at home. Videoing your own events seems to forward, proud, and unprofessional. We're not advertising root canals either...smiles and hand shakes let the public know we are just one of them. We're just armed!

I'm thinking about posting an ad in craigslist in my area to find other people wanting to open carry, and find out where they're heads are in all of this? This is a good thread, and I'm glad we can treat each other respectfully, and learn together.
 
It's interesting, I've gone to a number of so-called "meet and greets," never seen any cops hanging around, never seen the media around, and no one was chanting pro-2A slogans. Worst of all, none of those meetings ever showed up on Youtube. I guess we're doing something wrong. All we did, was share some food and (soft) drinks, meet people we don't normally get to, since some of us came from the other side of the state, and have a good time.

I put it to everyone, ANY meet and greet that ends up on Youtube, is likely in the minority of what happens at these pre-arranged meetings. For everyone you see on Youtube, there are probably at least 49 you don't see, where NOTHING happens, other that meeting new people, eating food, and having a good time.
 
Are we talking about meet and greets still or rallies and marches?

I'm working on an awesome "find the differences" picture game, between a local meet and greet and the occupy movement. When I'm done I'll post it for you guys to enjoy finding the differences.
 
Al, you may have to explain the difference of the meet & greets vs. group gun walks. Because if the only difference between the two is that one takes a walk down the street, and the other one stays in one place, then we're only talking logistics aren't we? And I never said anything about "cops hanging around"? But what's wrong with that anyways? Don't you want them to learn what your all about? Why it is your doing what your doing? Because right now...I'm asking myself the same thing? If your activities are lawful, why are you worried about cops hanging around? Sounds like an opportunity to share information with them. To see where they're heads are in all of this? I thought you would want people to come and see that you and all your friends are openly carrying, so you can educate them? Otherwise, I don't get it? What is your purpose? Just to wear a gun on your hip down to the dairy queen for everyone to see, but no one shares who, what, where, why, or why not your doing it? Sounds like a group of people who want to be seen carrying a weapon openly, and waiting to be challenged about openly carrying?

What is the meet & greet all about Al? Because, I'm not getting it obviously? And finally, I'm quite aware that not everyone that attends a meet & greet ends up on youtube. And I'm not saying that anything happened as far as the police, media, or anyone chanting any slogans. But it was obvious that these folks were looking for attention. Some of them got more than they wanted, and is possibly why it ended up on youtube. It's quite possible that we never see all the other videos because they weren't youtube "worthy"? Not enough excitement to share with everybody I guess?

But what is wrong with having the police, the media, or other folks there? You don't want that kind of attention? Which is it? I'm confused? You want to be able to meet in groups carrying firearms in public places, but you don't want any attention? Can somebody please explain this to me without being angry about it? I'm not trying to pick a fight. I just wanna get to the heart of this thinking of group carry, or meet & greets in public places while open carrying? Are you trying to pick a fight with LE or someone else that objects to what it is your doing? Or are you meeting in public to teach the uneducated about the 2nd amendment, and their rights to open carry? Which is it? Because I'm trying to figure this out? I've made suggestions to an open rally where you can legally carry and educate not only the public, but the news media, and LE as well? Until the rights to open carry in public become more public, or mainstream, we can expect adversity. It's gonna happen. When you say no cops or media were hanging around, I have to ask, "why not"? Use them to your advantage. If you don't want to be treated like the stereotypical "trailer trash, beer swilling, gun-toting rednecks; then change that perception before your agenda movement gets ruined. It's pretty simple to see, that there is opposition to it? Opposition among gun owning/open carry advocates even? Either your involved in the educational aspect of open carry, or your interested in being a smart ass, know it all, whose just waiting for someone, anyone to give them that opportunity to cry, "my rights are being trampled, my rights are being trampled"!!! Which guys are you? The ones who want to further the open carry movement, or the ones who want to be only know it all right fighters?

I've been more than pleasant in trying to get some solid answers, and all I get is argument. I'm not here to argue. I'm here to learn, plan, execute a plan, and to share my knowledge with whom ever is willing to listen, in as much as I am here to learn from you? But I'm not here to fight for a right I already have. I'm here to ensure I don't ever lose it. And I feel it has to be handled delicately. Everyone's watching! Don't think for one minute, people are not paying attention. We are the frontline on this people. It's up to us to make sure it's handled correctly this time, and everytime to come. Not just in Ohio, but in Michigan, Alabama, or anywhere it's legal to open carry. So argueing with each other "gun loving owners", is fruitless, and what our opponents want us to do. They want us portrayed as trailer trash, rednecks. When you say that you don't care what they think, your being foolish in that thought process. I don't see LaPierre from the NRA dressed like Larry the Cable Guy to get his point across? Image is everything, when noticed positively. We don't want the message taking a back seat to our appearance do we? That's the best way I can describe it. I hope we can put aside individual agendas for the common good of all open carry citizens. Whether your from Vermont, Mississippi, or Oregon. Same plan, same message, same result. Thats what we really want isn't it? To be able to walk anywhere in the United States and be able to lawfully open carry a firearm for protection, right?

I'm not here to debate, argue facts, or opinions. I couldn't care less what you do. But I do care what you do when it concerns my rights as well.

So, can anyone, without being hostile, or hateful, please explain what the open carry agenda for a group walk, and/or a meet & greet are? Are you doing it for the right reasons, or for a reason to fight for a right? I'm hoping that y'all are the good guys, and want to share outside the circle for everyone to benefit from this? Because I'm not in it for the attention of my local group of buddies. I'm in it for a national movement in all the States where open carry is legal. But without a plan, these group gatherings are absolutely fruitless.

What we want is to be able to carry openly, without harassment from LE.
We want a message to be afforded to the public by each State's Atty. Gen. Office.
We want citizens to understand that criminals don't open carry, only law abiding citizens do.
We want a mandated method of handling the "law abiding citizen/LE confrontation". So both the officer and the citizen are safe, and that the citizen's rights are upheld.
Etc....

Without a plan, or a means to execute it, we are paddling upstream.

Use the media to our advantage, not our disadvantage. Show the public that we are their neighbors, boy scout leaders, school teachers, doctors, factory workers, firefighters, store owners, and so on.... Show them that it's "alright" to own a gun, and to carry it for protection. We have to get the message to the people. The only way is the media. But we want the movement shown in a positive light. First impressions mean as much to the general public, as they do to us. It's quite possible that meet & greets, and other open carry group events may "not" be the way to get this message out. It may be too agressive, and I'll tell you why....

I posted a poll on my facebook page. I asked how many people knew if it was legal to openly carry a loaded firearm here in Ohio? Out of about 20 responses, 2 people answered yes. One of them said she only answered yes, because everyone else answered no. So only 1 person in 20 actually answered correctly. That one person said they based their answer on the idea that it's okay for hunters to carry their guns openly, so it must be legal. So, out of 20 answers, no one really knew that they had an actual right to open carry in Ohio without a permit. Some of them understood that a person could carry a concealed firearm if they had a permit. But that was about all they knew. And this is just 20 random people on my facebook page.

So I guess what I'm saying is this.... People don't have a clue what their gun rights are. And we have folks going around from town to town, in all parts of the country openly carrying in front of them. THEY DON'T EVEN KNOW WHAT'S GOING ON PEOPLE! They just see a bunch of people, "possibly scarey people" walking the streets of their town, with a gun! They have kids in their town? What is going on? But I can see how they're ignorance could result in that phone call to 911.

Knowing all this, is why I'm asking you if your into this open carry thing for the right reasons or not? Because it's quite obvious to me, that people just don't know? They don't know any of it, and nobody wants them to know. But they are the ones calling the police to you, the law abiding open carry citizen. So if you have an agenda, does your plan educate the public, or are you openly carrying to stir up "trouble" because you know your rights, and you get your kicks freaking out the unknowing?

In any event, these are reasons I do not participate in open carry group walks, or meet & greets. I think they're more harmful to the end result, than helpful. Getting the media, LE, and others involved in an educational led gathering, is by far a better way to go. If you do it right, you may set a presedence for other open carry groups to follow, and media coverage will get people from both sides of the debate talking. But the one thing they will be talking about is the fact that it's legal to open carry, and that just because they see someone carrying a gun on their hip, it is not a reason to call LE. At least people won't be able to say, "I didn't know". And that's where I want to see my gun rights taken to.

Just my opinion...you can all tell me to go straight to hell, and I'll see ya when you get there...But if your a hater just looking for a debate, or reason to fight over particulars, don't waste your time, I'd rather discuss ways to better my ability to open carry, then to bicker over group carrying, or meet & greets.
 
ESD, I'm not trying to pick a fight. But I don't like the way OCers have been characterized, by some using the extreme examples that show up on Youtube. As far as who shows up for any meetings, I don't particularly care if cops and the news media show up or not. I was simply making an observation about the meetings I've been to.

My comments about some of us OCers as "maybe we're doing it wrong" was meant as sarcasm. I do know of some planned OC meetings where the local LEOs put up a strong presence. I guess they thought it would turn into a blood bath or something, and they didn't want to miss out on the potential gun play, like Tackleberry did in Police Academy 1. :wink:

As for the rest, I'll wait until tomorrow when I have time to read the entire message. I'm not really up for reading a book right now, I have to go to work soon. :biggrin:
 

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