Al, you may have to explain the difference of the meet & greets vs. group gun walks. Because if the only difference between the two is that one takes a walk down the street, and the other one stays in one place, then we're only talking logistics aren't we? And I never said anything about "cops hanging around"? But what's wrong with that anyways? Don't you want them to learn what your all about? Why it is your doing what your doing? Because right now...I'm asking myself the same thing? If your activities are lawful, why are you worried about cops hanging around? Sounds like an opportunity to share information with them. To see where they're heads are in all of this? I thought you would want people to come and see that you and all your friends are openly carrying, so you can educate them? Otherwise, I don't get it? What is your purpose? Just to wear a gun on your hip down to the dairy queen for everyone to see, but no one shares who, what, where, why, or why not your doing it? Sounds like a group of people who want to be seen carrying a weapon openly, and waiting to be challenged about openly carrying?
What is the meet & greet all about Al? Because, I'm not getting it obviously? And finally, I'm quite aware that not everyone that attends a meet & greet ends up on youtube. And I'm not saying that anything happened as far as the police, media, or anyone chanting any slogans. But it was obvious that these folks were looking for attention. Some of them got more than they wanted, and is possibly why it ended up on youtube. It's quite possible that we never see all the other videos because they weren't youtube "worthy"? Not enough excitement to share with everybody I guess?
But what is wrong with having the police, the media, or other folks there? You don't want that kind of attention? Which is it? I'm confused? You want to be able to meet in groups carrying firearms in public places, but you don't want any attention? Can somebody please explain this to me without being angry about it? I'm not trying to pick a fight. I just wanna get to the heart of this thinking of group carry, or meet & greets in public places while open carrying? Are you trying to pick a fight with LE or someone else that objects to what it is your doing? Or are you meeting in public to teach the uneducated about the 2nd amendment, and their rights to open carry? Which is it? Because I'm trying to figure this out? I've made suggestions to an open rally where you can legally carry and educate not only the public, but the news media, and LE as well? Until the rights to open carry in public become more public, or mainstream, we can expect adversity. It's gonna happen. When you say no cops or media were hanging around, I have to ask, "why not"? Use them to your advantage. If you don't want to be treated like the stereotypical "trailer trash, beer swilling, gun-toting rednecks; then change that perception before your agenda movement gets ruined. It's pretty simple to see, that there is opposition to it? Opposition among gun owning/open carry advocates even? Either your involved in the educational aspect of open carry, or your interested in being a smart ass, know it all, whose just waiting for someone, anyone to give them that opportunity to cry, "my rights are being trampled, my rights are being trampled"!!! Which guys are you? The ones who want to further the open carry movement, or the ones who want to be only know it all right fighters?
I've been more than pleasant in trying to get some solid answers, and all I get is argument. I'm not here to argue. I'm here to learn, plan, execute a plan, and to share my knowledge with whom ever is willing to listen, in as much as I am here to learn from you? But I'm not here to fight for a right I already have. I'm here to ensure I don't ever lose it. And I feel it has to be handled delicately. Everyone's watching! Don't think for one minute, people are not paying attention. We are the frontline on this people. It's up to us to make sure it's handled correctly this time, and everytime to come. Not just in Ohio, but in Michigan, Alabama, or anywhere it's legal to open carry. So argueing with each other "gun loving owners", is fruitless, and what our opponents want us to do. They want us portrayed as trailer trash, rednecks. When you say that you don't care what they think, your being foolish in that thought process. I don't see LaPierre from the NRA dressed like Larry the Cable Guy to get his point across? Image is everything, when noticed positively. We don't want the message taking a back seat to our appearance do we? That's the best way I can describe it. I hope we can put aside individual agendas for the common good of all open carry citizens. Whether your from Vermont, Mississippi, or Oregon. Same plan, same message, same result. Thats what we really want isn't it? To be able to walk anywhere in the United States and be able to lawfully open carry a firearm for protection, right?
I'm not here to debate, argue facts, or opinions. I couldn't care less what you do. But I do care what you do when it concerns my rights as well.
So, can anyone, without being hostile, or hateful, please explain what the open carry agenda for a group walk, and/or a meet & greet are? Are you doing it for the right reasons, or for a reason to fight for a right? I'm hoping that y'all are the good guys, and want to share outside the circle for everyone to benefit from this? Because I'm not in it for the attention of my local group of buddies. I'm in it for a national movement in all the States where open carry is legal. But without a plan, these group gatherings are absolutely fruitless.
What we want is to be able to carry openly, without harassment from LE.
We want a message to be afforded to the public by each State's Atty. Gen. Office.
We want citizens to understand that criminals don't open carry, only law abiding citizens do.
We want a mandated method of handling the "law abiding citizen/LE confrontation". So both the officer and the citizen are safe, and that the citizen's rights are upheld.
Etc....
Without a plan, or a means to execute it, we are paddling upstream.
Use the media to our advantage, not our disadvantage. Show the public that we are their neighbors, boy scout leaders, school teachers, doctors, factory workers, firefighters, store owners, and so on.... Show them that it's "alright" to own a gun, and to carry it for protection. We have to get the message to the people. The only way is the media. But we want the movement shown in a positive light. First impressions mean as much to the general public, as they do to us. It's quite possible that meet & greets, and other open carry group events may "not" be the way to get this message out. It may be too agressive, and I'll tell you why....
I posted a poll on my facebook page. I asked how many people knew if it was legal to openly carry a loaded firearm here in Ohio? Out of about 20 responses, 2 people answered yes. One of them said she only answered yes, because everyone else answered no. So only 1 person in 20 actually answered correctly. That one person said they based their answer on the idea that it's okay for hunters to carry their guns openly, so it must be legal. So, out of 20 answers, no one really knew that they had an actual right to open carry in Ohio without a permit. Some of them understood that a person could carry a concealed firearm if they had a permit. But that was about all they knew. And this is just 20 random people on my facebook page.
So I guess what I'm saying is this.... People don't have a clue what their gun rights are. And we have folks going around from town to town, in all parts of the country openly carrying in front of them. THEY DON'T EVEN KNOW WHAT'S GOING ON PEOPLE! They just see a bunch of people, "possibly scarey people" walking the streets of their town, with a gun! They have kids in their town? What is going on? But I can see how they're ignorance could result in that phone call to 911.
Knowing all this, is why I'm asking you if your into this open carry thing for the right reasons or not? Because it's quite obvious to me, that people just don't know? They don't know any of it, and nobody wants them to know. But they are the ones calling the police to you, the law abiding open carry citizen. So if you have an agenda, does your plan educate the public, or are you openly carrying to stir up "trouble" because you know your rights, and you get your kicks freaking out the unknowing?
In any event, these are reasons I do not participate in open carry group walks, or meet & greets. I think they're more harmful to the end result, than helpful. Getting the media, LE, and others involved in an educational led gathering, is by far a better way to go. If you do it right, you may set a presedence for other open carry groups to follow, and media coverage will get people from both sides of the debate talking. But the one thing they will be talking about is the fact that it's legal to open carry, and that just because they see someone carrying a gun on their hip, it is not a reason to call LE. At least people won't be able to say, "I didn't know". And that's where I want to see my gun rights taken to.
Just my opinion...you can all tell me to go straight to hell, and I'll see ya when you get there...But if your a hater just looking for a debate, or reason to fight over particulars, don't waste your time, I'd rather discuss ways to better my ability to open carry, then to bicker over group carrying, or meet & greets.