The Open Carry Argument
- Thread starter Mainsail
- Start date
Think about this mindset to open carry. Why do it? because you can and you feel safer and maybe the Perp(s) won’t do what they set out to do because they see your gun? No matter what stats are out there claiming it’s a deterrent, there is still that percentage out there that don’t care and that may very well be what you will be up against. Many are career bad-asses, who are badder than you think you are with your exposed weapon and you will be the first one who gets wacked. Why not just keep the element of surprise to yourself and blend in. That’s where your edge will come in and maybe you will come out on top. Practice at the range standing, seated, practice seated or standing with eating utensils in your hand or other things that may occupy your hands, (infant, shopping bags, hand held gadgets etc.). Think of situations you may be doing that aren’t like you are at a range dedicated to just shooting. Practice often, be quick and accurate and be able to account for your rounds, (another legal liability). If you are out in Public try sitting in areas that your back is to a wall and try to have full view of your surroundings and be mindful of that. Find a good holster and carry position that you feel the most comfortable with that makes your weapon you chose easily accessible.
Walking around in open carry will certainly draw attention and most likely a visit from the COPS. I do not blame them, they must respond, especially nowadays. The societal makeup now is so diverse and odd, that all it takes is one to start the ball rolling on a 911 call. They will lie and make things up just to get the response they want. It’s pathetic but the way it is. I have been detailed to “open carry” States and have glanced down at their weapon(s) and observed and listened. With some, they talk about it like its their child, brag and twist and turn so everybody can see it. It’s dorky and unprofessional. I’ve heard some say publicly, “if someone comes in here to do us harm I will shoot them.” OK, you may be right but remember its going to be treated like a homicide case with all of the long legal battles. What you say publicly and what is heard by witnesses will come out in discovery. Even when beyond a reasonable doubt of self-defense of yourself or others it will cost you both emotionally and financially. The legal system too has changed where the Perp gets legally posed to being the Victim.
Just because you can do something doesn’t mean it is wise to. The greatest responsibility as law-abiding citizens who carry is to know when it is right. In retirement I do not open carry and never will. I practice frequently and I am mentally armed with the field smarts learned from the job, (USBP). I want that element of surprise if it should ever happen to me.
Bragging and boasting is not a skill, it’s a prop. Be quiet, skilled, confident and right, blend in, even career criminals are not immune to their very own “Oh Crap” moment.
Walking around in open carry will certainly draw attention and most likely a visit from the COPS. I do not blame them, they must respond, especially nowadays. The societal makeup now is so diverse and odd, that all it takes is one to start the ball rolling on a 911 call. They will lie and make things up just to get the response they want. It’s pathetic but the way it is. I have been detailed to “open carry” States and have glanced down at their weapon(s) and observed and listened. With some, they talk about it like its their child, brag and twist and turn so everybody can see it. It’s dorky and unprofessional. I’ve heard some say publicly, “if someone comes in here to do us harm I will shoot them.” OK, you may be right but remember its going to be treated like a homicide case with all of the long legal battles. What you say publicly and what is heard by witnesses will come out in discovery. Even when beyond a reasonable doubt of self-defense of yourself or others it will cost you both emotionally and financially. The legal system too has changed where the Perp gets legally posed to being the Victim.
Just because you can do something doesn’t mean it is wise to. The greatest responsibility as law-abiding citizens who carry is to know when it is right. In retirement I do not open carry and never will. I practice frequently and I am mentally armed with the field smarts learned from the job, (USBP). I want that element of surprise if it should ever happen to me.
Bragging and boasting is not a skill, it’s a prop. Be quiet, skilled, confident and right, blend in, even career criminals are not immune to their very own “Oh Crap” moment.
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corneileous
Active member
Excellent post in my opinion but the majority of what you’ve said has already been said many times over. Even I’ve said some of the things you’ve said but if you read through this thread, you’ll see that my views on it were shot down every which way from Sunday. Just as I said few posts back to the author of this thread, pretty much no matter what a concealed carrier will say, most people who open carry don’t care about pros and cons of each method of carry. They have only one preferred method of carry and that’s the only one that makes sense to them. No argument against that is going to change their mind. Whether it’s to proudly display their second amendment rights, to piss off the liberals, or because they live in a state that allows open carry only without an infringing permit.
You realize, since I’ve lived here in Oklahoma - 6 years this past February, that I’ve only seen maybe three people who open carry? One the other day in a restaurant but I wouldn’t be surprised if the reason for that was only because he was with a group of guys who were out riding motorcycles. I dunno, he may open carry all the time, I have no idea. That was just my first impression. Fact remaining, you don’t see it much. Probably because in order to carry period, a permit is required; well, at least up until this coming November when our constitutional carry goes in to effect. That is, unless it gets appealed. I don’t know about when after our constitutional carry law gets passed but, I guarantee ya that if that constitutional open carry would have gotten passed back in 2016, that’s probably all you’d see after that is open carriers.
I agree with what you said but, there is no argument in this debate. It’s just like with the toilet paper argument; loading that toilet paper roller either way is still gonna work and get the job done.
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Mainsail
Member
The rest of your post has already been discussed in the OP, however this line requires attention.
The police may respond, and they may want to talk with you, but barring any illegal activity on your part you DO NOT need to talk to them. Walk away.
In other words, if you are not breaking a law like shoplifting, assault, etc, and the only reason the police were called is because your pistol was visible to someone, it would be illegal for the police to detain you. (detain means seize, or prevent you from leaving)
It's important to know this whether you open carry or conceal carry. It's called a Terry Stop, and the police have restrictions on when and how they do it. Learn it even if you don't open carry because it's pure foolishness to be ignorant of that law.
corneileous
Active member
Sounds to me like this “Terry Stop” is legal, and “walking away” as you put it, sounds like a bad idea.
Although I recognize the pros of open carry, especially out in the country- away from society, this is just more reason for me to conceal carry is simply from not being harassed. I don’t want anybody to know I’m carrying until that moment comes up.
But as I said; you carry open, I’ll carry concealed when I’m in public. They both have their pros and cons, no matter what you say. There absolutely really is no need to argue and bicker about one method being better than the other one because their isn’t one.
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Although I recognize the pros of open carry, especially out in the country- away from society, this is just more reason for me to conceal carry is simply from not being harassed. I don’t want anybody to know I’m carrying until that moment comes up.
But as I said; you carry open, I’ll carry concealed when I’m in public. They both have their pros and cons, no matter what you say. There absolutely really is no need to argue and bicker about one method being better than the other one because their isn’t one.
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Mainsail
Member
I don't think you get it.
For the police to detain you (keep you from leaving and demand answers) they have to have reasonable articulable suspicion that you are involved in a crime. The key word here is 'crime'. If your carry is lawful they cannot detain you merely for doing so. You do not have to speak to them, and it's a good idea not to. Yes, if they are not detaining you you may walk away. When open carry was a daily thing for me I did so on several occasions.
So if I'm openly carrying four pistols on my belt and wearing a tu-tu, while it may be weird and even a tad suspicious, the officer would have to be able to articulate a crime he has a reasonable belief I have violated, am currently violating, our will violate, in order to detain me. He can't use a hunch, he can't cite it looks odd, it doesn't matter that soccer mom called and complained; he MUST be able to cite a specific crime.
Again, as a gun owner it is imperative you know what your rights are regarding police stops, and foolish to assume you don't need to.
XD40scinNC
New member
You seem to live in a perfect world, where cops know what is legal and what is not, and will honor that. Many cops have their own interpretation of the law, and bad cops simply ignore the laws and your rights.... we see examples in the news daily.
Sure in the end, after arrest, time in jail, lawyer fees, years getting into court, you may prevail, but even that is not a guarantee.
That's why you carry a personal recorder that uploads to the internet.
johnsutter71
New member
I never open carry because advertising what you have makes you the first target. Might as well carry a sign with your banking information for all to see.
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corneileous
Active member
I wouldn’t go as far to say this thread is still going strong when your post was the first one in a year.
corneileous
Active member
So exactly what conditions would require open carry? The only one that I would see that wouldn’t necessarily require it but would make a lot better sense and make it a lot easier would be when you’re out in the woods but not for urban carry.
corneileous
Active member
Maybe this is why my question would probably be better left to the original person I asked it from because this doesn’t answer it at all. This doesn’t even pertain to what he said and what I asked. He said requirement, not individual opinion, like there actually was a time.
I will continue waiting for an answer from the recipient in which my question was originally addressed to.
Thee Conservatarian
New member
I travel eastern SC from Hardeeville to Myrtle Beach and have yet to see anyone open carry. I myself have once or twice, but prefer to carry concealed.
golddigger14s
SFC At Fort Lewis, WA
I've OC'd for years in WA with no issues. I'm not trying to be "cool", but the way I dress it is about the only way for me to carry. I was brought up to have my shirt tucked in, and a holster/gun in my waistband is very uncomfortable. I've never had an issue with anybody freaking out, just the opposite. Most people with questions or thanks. The old adage that you will be a "target" is worn out. I would rather the bad guy know that I'm not the easy target they are looking for. They don't want somebody capable of fighting back.
corneileous
Active member
I’m glad you haven’t had any issues but unfortunately a lot of other people can’t say the same thing or, they just don’t open carry so that they never have to deal with the negative feedback from open carrying.
I highly doubt that and I heavily disagree. The possibility of you being the first person catching a bullet while standing in line at a convenience store from somebody with every intention of holding up the place up is still just as much there as it always has been. Now, I’m not saying that’s gonna be the case every time but nobody ever knows what kind of situation they’re going to be faced with and most of us just choose not to take that chance. It’s kind of like with the whole argument about having fire extinguishers in your home; I don’t plan to ever have a fire in my house but that doesn’t mean I’m not gonna have fire extinguishers in there in the event that it ever does happen.
But let’s face it; unless you’re situational awareness abilities are as sharp as any human being has ever had, You’re not going to be as much of a hard target as you think you are when his bullet catches you by surprise and depending on what he has and where he shoots you, it’ll be lights out before you even knew there was a problem. Granted, your openly carried handgun might actually be a deterrent but can you honestly count how many times it has? That’s one of those unknown things that you just can’t prove. It also goes without say they don’t have to worry about you fighting back if they can catch you by surprise but by all means, if you feel confident in your open carrying then go right ahead. The choice is yours, nobody can’t make that choice for you.
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corneileous
Active member
Probably not for the most part, they’d probably assume they were some kind of law enforcement but then again, it’s gotten to the point these days where if there’s no visible badge or anything on you that spells cop, the snowflake liberals don’t care how you’re dressed. They see handgun and their fear factor goes up.
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corneileous
Active member
No. How can I be advocating wearing a CCW badge when I’ve said I’d rather conceal carry?
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corneileous
Active member
I just went back though all the posts of this thread and, I gotta tell ya… it’s as funny as all get out with all the silly, insane and laughable attitudes from some of our illustrious open carriers. Some of the guys just make me shake my head the way they acted like open carry is the end all be all of carrying a damn gun yet they so incredibly criticized the thoughts of the conceal-carriers who brought up some really good reasons to not open carry.
But whatever, I still think it’s not good to open carry, it makes you a target and I don’t care how good you say your situational awareness skills are because all it takes is just one time to slip up. Not to mention the fact that you’re pissing off the gun haters and we don’t need any more rights-infringing laws, restrictions and regulations.
But whatever, as I’ve said before, open carry has its merits and it’s flaws, just like concealed carry does but at least my gun’s out of sight and out of mind. I don’t have to worry about some snowflake liberal calling the cops on me because my gun is scaring them. I can carry in places that I’m not necessarily supposed to carry in and because of that, I don’t have to let some silly sign or someone’s wishes for me to cover up my gun dictate and limit where I shop but whatever, open carry all you want, I’ll keep mine concealed.
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But whatever, I still think it’s not good to open carry, it makes you a target and I don’t care how good you say your situational awareness skills are because all it takes is just one time to slip up. Not to mention the fact that you’re pissing off the gun haters and we don’t need any more rights-infringing laws, restrictions and regulations.
But whatever, as I’ve said before, open carry has its merits and it’s flaws, just like concealed carry does but at least my gun’s out of sight and out of mind. I don’t have to worry about some snowflake liberal calling the cops on me because my gun is scaring them. I can carry in places that I’m not necessarily supposed to carry in and because of that, I don’t have to let some silly sign or someone’s wishes for me to cover up my gun dictate and limit where I shop but whatever, open carry all you want, I’ll keep mine concealed.
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