The Open Carry Argument

[corneileous]

Well I am glad you think the Second Amendment right to keep and bear arms is so darn funny.

Wow, seriously?? Where in the Sam hell did you get out of that post that I said the right to keep and bear arms was funny? I never said anything like that. Perhaps you should brush up on your reading and comprehension skills buddy because what I said was funny was the attitude of some people who open carry who think that their big shiny pistol is going to scare off any would-be attacker, that their chances of being plugged in the back of the head from a bad guy who’s thinking about robbing a place is slim to none and that anybody who carries concealed is just at so much of a tactical disadvantage. Again, that’s what I think is funny. Need I stress anymore that I don’t think the second amendment and our right to own and bear arms is funny? Are we clear now?


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[corneileous]

I’d go back and update my post but being that I guess we no longer have the ability to edit posts, it’s also quite funny how you, @G50AE, only quoted part of my post just to make some silly and inept attempt to misperceive what I said for your own personal and warped enjoyment. Spoken just like the very specific members I’m talking about.


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[corneileous]

Because that is what you said. It should not be that hard of a concept.

Show me where I said that.


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[corneileous]

corneileous said:
I just went back though all the posts of this thread and, I gotta tell ya… it’s as funny as all get out...

That's where you said that. Apparently me posting it the first time wasn't enough for you.

Ok so, again….show me exactly in that post above of mine where I actually said the Second Amendment was a laughing matter like you so accused me of doing. I didn’t say nothing of the sort. Didn’t even use the words yet you for some reason said I did and even though I didn’t spell it out for you in my other post, it should’ve been pretty derned easy to figure out that what I meant was “funny,” was the audacity and smug attitudes of most of all those open carriers who posted throughout this thread, including the OP who just thinks so negatively against concealed carriers and acts like open carry is just so much the way to go. That’s….what I thought was funny. Not the 2nd Amendment and not that method of carry. Some of the members here past and present is what I think was funny. Get it now? Jeez dude, do I have to get a slide rule and an overhead projector out to further explain it? For chrissakes, man.

 

[corneileous]

I have an RPN-Calculator, so no need for a slide rule.

I’m thrilled but I’m still waiting on where I said the second amendment was a laughing matter.


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[corneileous]

Hey, you will also be thrilled to know that the RPN-Calculator has an optional interface to use it with an overhead projector. That could potentially make any calculations more "tactical", IMHO.

I was being facetious when I said I was thrilled about that but not at all when I said I’d still like for you to point out where I said the 2nd was funny. Are you capable of that?


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[corneileous]

Since I have already done that twice, I see no reason to do it again.


Snipped because I don’t care…

You haven’t shown me anything of the sort but I get it, you’re incapable and, that’s fine. Now you’re just trying to play some childish game.


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[corneileous]

Maybe if I use a longer quote you will actually get it. In the above quote you refer to carry pistols as "damn guns", again your choice of words not mine, indicating your disdain for people who exercise their second amendment rights. I am glad you think that OC is, "as funny as all get out" and "silly, insane and laughable," again your words not mine.

Are you stupid? Again, you’re completely taking what I said out of context and if that’s the best you can do at reading and comprehension then buddy, you need help or maybe you just need to refrain from posting. This is ridiculous. I am seriously questioning your mentality and your common sense right now.

That, “damn guns” comment had nothing to do with the gun; it was just a figure of speech, man. Haven’t you ever heard of a figure of speech? Jesus, I cannot believe you’re making me explain this. But again, just because I said that does it mean that I’m showing any disdain for people and their Second Amendment rights. That is the dumbest thing I’ve ever heard.

And again guy, I never said anything about open carry being all that even though no, I don’t agree with it in an urban setting but once again, you’re taking what I said completely out of context because I was talking about the people who open carry and their attitude towards people who conceal carry.

But you know what’s really funny? I’ve explained this several times so why don’t you pull your head out of your backside and just leave this alone? It’s OK to misunderstand somebody but dang, I’ve explained to you several times now, that’s not what I was talking about but you just won’t listen.


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[corneileous]

I am glad you think that firearms discussions on internet forums are "some childish game". It's good to see such healthy contempt for the first and second amendment rights of other people.

LOL, this is no longer a discussion about firearms. This is about you being a childish idiot. What’s your deal? Starving that much for attention? But here we go again- when it comes to actual firearms discussions and peoples rights, that’s not what I said was a childish game; this crap with you continually trying to change the context of what I said is what the childish game is. Again, what is your deal? Do you seriously have nothing better to do than come on these web forms and screw with people? You need help.


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[corneileous]

No, actually it always has been about the second amendment right of law abiding citizens to openly carry firearms. Which incidentally recently became legal in my home state of SC, if you have the state issued handgun permit. Also the state of SC was nice enough to reduce the fee for such a permit to $0, which IMHO is equal to the intellectual capital that you have invested in this thread.

There are more changes still that need to be done to the firearms laws in SC, IMHO.

No, it’s about how many people think open carry is better than concealed carry. That’s what this discussion has been all about from the day it opened.


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[corneileous]

You are welcome.

For what? What am I thanking you for?


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[Mainsail]

No, it’s about how many people think open carry is better than concealed carry. That’s what this discussion has been all about from the day it opened.


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Actually, this thread is about dispelling the silly unsubstantiated myths around open carry. The essay does not say open carry is better than concealed carry, and that's not what its about.

In some situations open carry is better, in others, concealed carry is better - that's for the reader to work out.

Merry Christmas all!

 

[corneileous]

Actually, this thread is about dispelling the silly unsubstantiated myths around open carry. The essay does not say open carry is better than concealed carry, and that's not what its about.

Egh, that’s not the way I saw it. Or well, maybe that’s not the way you wrote your initial essay on the subject but that’s what a lot of other members pretty much turned it into.

In some situations open carry is better, in others, concealed carry is better - that's for the reader to work out.

I agree but in my opinion and in this day of age with so many gun haters and politicians looking for more reason to ban guns and just make it even harder to get one the legal way, open carry is only good for woods carry and around home. People don’t need to see your sidearm and with the proper training and holster, CC can be drawn just as fast if not faster than open carry.

At least with open carry, you don’t have to dress around the gun.

Merry Christmas all!

Back at’cha.


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[Mainsail]

I agree but in my opinion and in this day of age with so many gun haters and politicians looking for more reason to ban guns and just make it even harder to get one the legal way, open carry is only good for woods carry and around home. People don’t need to see your sidearm and with the proper training and holster, CC can be drawn just as fast if not faster than open carry.

The difference is you speak in speculation, I speak from experience.

During the decade+ I was openly carrying daily, 99% of the response I observed was positive. The 1% that was negative was a woman who wanted to debate that only police should have guns, so nothing I did or said changed her mind either way.

Can you cite a single occurence of open carry being credited for any new gun ban law to back up the statement?

As to what people need or don't need, it doesn't concern me.

 

[corneileous]

The difference is you speak in speculation, I speak from experience.

I most certainly am not speaking out of speculation and this has nothing to do with your past experience. The past....[/] being the operative word.

Read on, I'll explain....

During the decade+ I was openly carrying daily, 99% of the response I observed was positive. The 1% that was negative was a woman who wanted to debate that only police should have guns, so nothing I did or said changed her mind either way.

They haven't changed completely, there was still people and politicians those people voted for, seeking our gun rights but while Biden's been in office and even under Trump's presidency, the Democrats have been pushing harder than they ever have to abolish our gun rights and every single time when there's another school shooting or just any another mass shooting to whatever degree, they push even harder.

Can you cite a single occurence of open carry being credited for any new gun ban law to back up the statement?

Don't need to. Just the very sight of an openly-carried firearm gets even more under their skin to push for more gun regulation, restriction, gun-free zones, red-flag laws, longer waiting periods and more stringent/wider background checks and any other miscellaneous law they can think of.

Some things are just better left unseen and since there's only a few things in my book that puts open carry above conceal carry, all you're doing at this point is just rubbing it in their face and now its gotten to the point where more and more of those regulations, restrictions and laws are becoming reality.

As to what people need or don't need, it doesn't concern me.

Not even remotely close to the point but when it starts limiting your's, and our freedom by making us jump through more hoops to exercise our rights, it should concern you but, you do you. You're all about that open carry, I am not so there's really no point in re-hashing what you and I have already hashed out probably half a decade ago. As far as I'm concerned, if you're not out in the woods or if you're not a cop who's three times more likely to use that gun, cover it up. You really aren't at any more of an advantage than I am, but argue with me and disagree with me all you like. In the last 5 years I've learned a lot, talked to a lot of people and there's still a reason why I am not interested in open carry. It's no longer about expressing your rights, doing it simply because you can or pissing off the Libs which, open carriers have done that quite well and we're starting to pay the consequences. Maybe not where you live but where you live isn't the whole United States.

 

[Mainsail]

I most certainly am not speaking out of speculation and this has nothing to do with your past experience. The past....[/] being the operative word.

Read on, I'll explain....

They haven't changed completely, there was still people and politicians those people voted for, seeking our gun rights but while Biden's been in office and even under Trump's presidency, the Democrats have been pushing harder than they ever have to abolish our gun rights and every single time when there's another school shooting or just any another mass shooting to whatever degree, they push even harder.

Don't need to. Just the very sight of an openly-carried firearm gets even more under their skin to push for more gun regulation, restriction, gun-free zones, red-flag laws, longer waiting periods and more stringent/wider background checks and any other miscellaneous law they can think of.

Some things are just better left unseen and since there's only a few things in my book that puts open carry above conceal carry, all you're doing at this point is just rubbing it in their face and now its gotten to the point where more and more of those regulations, restrictions and laws are becoming reality.

Not even remotely close to the point but when it starts limiting your's, and our freedom by making us jump through more hoops to exercise our rights, it should concern you but, you do you. You're all about that open carry, I am not so there's really no point in re-hashing what you and I have already hashed out probably half a decade ago. As far as I'm concerned, if you're not out in the woods or if you're not a cop who's three times more likely to use that gun, cover it up. You really aren't at any more of an advantage than I am, but argue with me and disagree with me all you like. In the last 5 years I've learned a lot, talked to a lot of people and there's still a reason why I am not interested in open carry. It's no longer about expressing your rights, doing it simply because you can or pissing off the Libs which, open carriers have done that quite well and we're starting to pay the consequences. Maybe not where you live but where you live isn't the whole United States.

Everything here is strawman argument.

Are there people pushing for more restrictive gun laws? Yes.

Have you linked even one of these new gun laws to open carry? No.

So again, pure speculation. My actual experience was almost exclusively positive. People that might have passed by and not say anything to me felt compelled to express support when they saw I was openly carrying; and there were dozens and dozens of them. I had only one person wanting to discuss that wasn't supportive, and had one Karen call the cops (and they refused to respond because there was no crime) but she wasn't interested in discussing.

One of the best parts about the open carry forum (opencarry.org) was that people didn't tolerate speculation. If you couldn't cite something authoritative you either mention it's your opinion or you kept it to yourself.

 

[corneileous]

Everything here is strawman argument.

No, it’s not. Explain to me how all or any of that I’ve said is “strawman argument”?

Are there people pushing for more restrictive gun laws? Yes.

And all of you people who open carry in urban environments aren’t helping.

Have you linked even one of these new gun laws to open carry? No.

Again, because there’s no need to and because you’re so pro open carry, think you got it all figured out and act like it’s the king of all carry methods, you’ll never accept that.

So again, pure speculation. My actual experience was almost exclusively positive. People that might have passed by and not say anything to me felt compelled to express support when they saw I was openly carrying; and there were dozens and dozens of them. I had only one person wanting to discuss that wasn't supportive, and had one Karen call the cops (and they refused to respond because there was no crime) but she wasn't interested in discussing.

Again, times have changed. Obviously you didn’t read that and/or you conveniently dismissed it because it goes against your narrative.

But you keep saying whenand was…. Does that mean you no longer open carry or what? I kind of find that awful interesting.

The only one who’s speculating here is you. Just because you witnessed a specific behavior while doing something many years ago doesn’t apply to everyone and it doesn’t apply to current times. Way back in the thread I even gave you examples where openly-carried firearms was obviously a bad choice for the carrier but you dismissed it, just as you’re doing again, now.

One of the best parts about the open carry forum (opencarry.org) was that people didn't tolerate speculation. If you couldn't cite something authoritative you either mention it's your opinion or you kept it to yourself.

Of course not, they sound as though they are obviously just as delirious as you are so I can perfectly see how they wouldn’t tolerate going against their narrative with common sense.


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[corneileous]

Not to mention the fact that since this open carry website is probably no different from some liberal anti-gun or anti Trump website, you’re probably not going to see a whole lot of pro conceal carry or basically anyone who’s not all pro-open carry enthusiasts so they probably don’t have a whole lot to worry about.


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[corneileous]

Being that I can no longer edit my posts, I would have loved to add that last post and this one to my other post but after a little of my curiosity got to me, I decided to navigate over to that open carry dot org website and take a look around. That place is almost just as desolate as this place is so my only thought was, hmmm.


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[Mainsail]

You're making this...

"They haven't changed completely, there was still people and politicians those people voted for, seeking our gun rights but while Biden's been in office and even under Trump's presidency, the Democrats have been pushing harder than they ever have to abolish our gun rights and every single time when there's another school shooting or just any another mass shooting to whatever degree, they push even harder."

...about open carry. I asked you to provide some citation that open carry is the cause for this. Your beliefs are not citation. Provide some objective evidence that open carry is in any way responsible for this or let's agree to disagree. You have no argument otherwise. I'm not interested in your speculation about open carry- I'll just put you on ignore because we aren't getting anywhere.