KathleenElsie
New member
As i have never said I HATE anyone I believe that your calling me an un-charitable name was quite uncalled for.
Your posts are now on my ignor list.
Say NO!!!
- Thread starter Sheldon
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Your posts are now on my ignor list.
KathleenElsie
New member
Or when a HOLY site is taken by force they make it a Mosque.Muslims erect a mosque on conquered sites. Doesn't this fact say it all? A mosque, at Ground Zero, is nothing more than a badge of honor for a jihad act of terrorism against the United States.
6shootercarry
New member
I'm not the foremost expert on the subject, but I have spoken to some Muslims (as I'm sure you perhaps have had contact with some) and the teachings of Muhammad have over time evolved into condoning and teaching violence in the name of Allah...
As stated in my previous post, It's the human interpretation of the written word of God. Some Christians fall into that trap as well. In the name of God and the "Right to life movement" I'm going to take the lives of people who work in the field of abortions. Right... :wacko:
VIOLENCE IN THE KORAN AND THE BIBLE (very long, but, worthwile)
Man fighting man in defense of his beliefs in God and a belief in his control over natural resources has been the legacy of human existence. Not gonna solve it here...
To most Americans the idea of the mosque on this site would be seen as a monument to conquest. Others will see it as a symbol of a peaceful co-existence. I've made my opinion known...
I don't hate all Muslims, just the ones who kill in the name of their God... And in this case that is exactly what happened at Ground Zero... So yes I do hate "them"...
Forcing your point of view on others... Yea, Good luck with that... Start a poll and see what the general consensus is here...
Have a nice day, Name caller...
Peace...
No one said we hate Muslims, I too know several.. but it has been said by a very famous man "He who does not study history is doomed to repeat it"
So do I explicitly trust these people? I judge them as individuals and not as part of a very large religious group, so based upon their own words, demure, and acts, for the most no....
A little history here, Islam one of the worlds largest religious groups (Shiite and Sunni) consists of round numbers a billion people, thats 1 with 9 0's...
Of which a full 10%+ is of the radical sect, and in round numbers is equal to one hundred million (100,000,000) people that want every one not of their sect dead.
These radical Islamic sects regularly infiltrate the more peaceful groups, have no scruples about killing anyone, anyplace, anytime and unlike the US have no concept of collateral damage, will readily hide out in any Mosque well knowing we will not openly attack. They on the other hand have no such problems and will bomb any structure regardless of use or designation.
So do we hate all Muslims, NO.... Do we keep a watchful and guarded eye on them, let me state that if you do not then you need a serious and quick reality check....
theicemanmpls
Banned
Have any of you ever had a person in authority who abused you, or someone who may of caused you or loved one harm? Of course you have. Has that person been a different race, color, creed, religion, or national origin? Maybe?
Therefore are all of "those people" the same? The answer is no.
What happened on 911, is terrible. What they did was evil.
IMO, it was religious and political zealots who planned, and carried out the attack. The same ones who want to cause harm to our country and our people.
Like Christianity, Muslims are taught peaceful resolutions. Like Christianity, Muslims don't always do what is right.
Hate, and intolerance will not help. This will not bring anyone who perished that day back.
Hold only those who are guilty responsible. IMO, try a peaceful resolution. Do not hold an entire group responsible for the actions of very few. If that fails, then pick up the sword, and run it through only the guilty.
I substituted the words mosque, and Muslim with church, and Baptist. Does this now sound like religious hate and intolerance?
"I'm quite confident that the technology is there in private hands that an amateur UAV filled with black powder and avgas could be piloted right into the Cordoba House BAPTIST CHURCH on the day of its dedication.
Psst, all non-BAPTISTS, that day would be a really good day to be in New Jersey. "
"As it wasn't a plane load of BAPTISTS that hijacked a plane and flew it into the trade center you are correct..."
"Agreed, This is not about Freedom of religion... THE BAPTIST CHURCH can go someplace else, Like in Antarctica ... "
"However, I'm not against converting a BAPTIST CHURCH into a ground zero site..."
"Here's a thought.... if they do build it can we fly a remote controlled aircraft full of terrorist into it every September 11th? "
"If they build it, they better have dang good security cause I think this might become a real target... "
"In a religious area, when the BAPTISTS moved into Jerusalem, they built a CHURCH (isn't that the scent from a skunk?) on the site of Solomon's Temple. "
"You are SO correct, unfortunately. They are using our freedoms and laws against us. Watch them on TV when they defend this sickening site. All they talk about is how we should be tolerant. BS! "
"That was destroyed by BAPTISTS attacking us in the name of their God!!! Insult to injury... Build it some other place..."
"If they hire New Yorkers for the construction work, the BAPTIST CHURCHmay collapse during the opening service/session, on purpose. "
Therefore are all of "those people" the same? The answer is no.
What happened on 911, is terrible. What they did was evil.
IMO, it was religious and political zealots who planned, and carried out the attack. The same ones who want to cause harm to our country and our people.
Like Christianity, Muslims are taught peaceful resolutions. Like Christianity, Muslims don't always do what is right.
Hate, and intolerance will not help. This will not bring anyone who perished that day back.
Hold only those who are guilty responsible. IMO, try a peaceful resolution. Do not hold an entire group responsible for the actions of very few. If that fails, then pick up the sword, and run it through only the guilty.
I substituted the words mosque, and Muslim with church, and Baptist. Does this now sound like religious hate and intolerance?
"I'm quite confident that the technology is there in private hands that an amateur UAV filled with black powder and avgas could be piloted right into the Cordoba House BAPTIST CHURCH on the day of its dedication.
Psst, all non-BAPTISTS, that day would be a really good day to be in New Jersey. "
"As it wasn't a plane load of BAPTISTS that hijacked a plane and flew it into the trade center you are correct..."
"Agreed, This is not about Freedom of religion... THE BAPTIST CHURCH can go someplace else, Like in Antarctica ... "
"However, I'm not against converting a BAPTIST CHURCH into a ground zero site..."
"Here's a thought.... if they do build it can we fly a remote controlled aircraft full of terrorist into it every September 11th? "
"If they build it, they better have dang good security cause I think this might become a real target... "
"In a religious area, when the BAPTISTS moved into Jerusalem, they built a CHURCH (isn't that the scent from a skunk?) on the site of Solomon's Temple. "
"You are SO correct, unfortunately. They are using our freedoms and laws against us. Watch them on TV when they defend this sickening site. All they talk about is how we should be tolerant. BS! "
"That was destroyed by BAPTISTS attacking us in the name of their God!!! Insult to injury... Build it some other place..."
"If they hire New Yorkers for the construction work, the BAPTIST CHURCHmay collapse during the opening service/session, on purpose. "
This is interesting but useless. You could substitute any group, and it is meaningless since they did not start a war with us. Now if Baptists flew planes into buildings and killed thousands, and then baptists all over the country refused to criticize them as taking the bible out of context, I would be opposed to having a baptist church built on that site. Remember, the Muslim community has to a large extent not been very vocal in their criticism of the attacks. If Baptists did it, the outcry from other Baptists would be deafening in their criticism of the act and distortion of their beliefs
HK4U
New member
+ 1. That word if is a big word. Or as Dandy Don Meredith used to say, "If Ifs and buts were candy and nuts we would all have a Merry Christmas.
theicemanmpls
Banned
Another example.
WWII. Pearl Harbor.
What did the US Government do to all people of Japanese Ancestry who resided on the west coast and Hawaii?
They put them in concentration camps.
Was it wrong?
Don't blame all for the actions of a few. Ain't that quote somewheres in your holly book?
WWII. Pearl Harbor.
What did the US Government do to all people of Japanese Ancestry who resided on the west coast and Hawaii?
They put them in concentration camps.
Was it wrong?
Don't blame all for the actions of a few. Ain't that quote somewheres in your holly book?
6shootercarry
New member
We could play "substitute the religious group" all year long and the results will be the same.
The Christian's didn't fly the planes nor did the Hebrews nor did members of a non radical Muslim group... The attempted bombing at the same location in 1993 was also not planned by Christians or Hebrews or any non radical Muslim group. It was radical Muslims. I take issue with them. There I wrote it...
At the particular site in question with regards to the original post, A mosque is in my opinion, is in poor taste. Two blocks away from the site, like you often write, "knock yourself out".
Some opinions will not be swayed. Count mine in that pile... Keep preaching, but don't expect the Kool-Aid to be enjoyed by all...
Peace...
theicemanmpls
Banned
Building a Mosque at the 911 site is a symbol of peace. IMO.
How many of you have been to the twin towers before, and the 911 site afterwords?
I have. Have you?
A friend mine for over 30 years works in Tribeca. I watched in horror at the unfolding events on the TV. I knew thousands of Americans were gone, but also my friend may be gone. It took days to find her.
She lost a loved one in the south tower.
I, and millions of others are affected.
The elected representatives of the people of NYC want the mosque there. Who are we on this site, to say it's wrong to put it there?
I don't want a tragedy like this to ever happen again. If building a mosque helps, I am all for it.
How many of you have been to the twin towers before, and the 911 site afterwords?
I have. Have you?
A friend mine for over 30 years works in Tribeca. I watched in horror at the unfolding events on the TV. I knew thousands of Americans were gone, but also my friend may be gone. It took days to find her.
She lost a loved one in the south tower.
I, and millions of others are affected.
The elected representatives of the people of NYC want the mosque there. Who are we on this site, to say it's wrong to put it there?
I don't want a tragedy like this to ever happen again. If building a mosque helps, I am all for it.
Conservative Wife & Mom
New member
IMO, this thread should be closed. Opinions are set and nothing is going to change mine or anyone else's.
KathleenElsie
New member
+1 Thank you.
theicemanmpls
Banned
Can't handle the truth mom?
Why do you zealots hate everyone who is different from you?
HK4U
New member
+1. Once a left wing zealot has their mind made up you can't confuse them with the facts.
theicemanmpls
Banned
making threats to the computer, while wearing your Ben Cartright vest makes you look silly Hk.
Let's get down to brass tacks. This whole idea is bullsh#t and shouldn't even be an argument. Muslims bomb the towers and kill 3000 people. Now, Muslims want to build a mosque on/near the site. And we're supposed to just say "oh hell of a good idea!" and clap our local Muslim on the back in support and good cheer. Ridiculous.
Spare me the tolerance lecture, the political correctness, or whatever. Right is right and this isn't.
Spare me the tolerance lecture, the political correctness, or whatever. Right is right and this isn't.
and theres the problem, the elected officials not the people of NYC who when polled thought it was in bad taste too....
Golly this is kind of like when we call our elected officials and tell them to vote against a gun control bill and they do what they want to anyway.....
theicemanmpls
Banned
Which ones are we supposed to hate? All of them, or just certain ones? Here is a list for you to choose from.
BTW, all the 911 hijackers were from Saudi. Saudi's are great friends with the oil billiionare Bush and Channey families.
Let us know who the bad ones are.
A comprehensive 2009 demographic study of 232 countries and territories reported that 23% of the global population or 1.57 billion people are Muslims.[8] Of those, an estimated 87–90% are Sunni[7][137] and 10–13% are Shi'a,[8][7] with a small minority belonging to other sects. Approximately 50 countries are Muslim-majority,[138] and Arabs account for around 20% of all Muslims worldwide.
The majority of Muslims live in Asia and Africa.[139] Approximately 62% of the world's Muslims live in Asia, with over 683 million adherents in Indonesia, Pakistan, India, and Bangladesh.[140][141] In the Middle East, non-Arab countries such as Turkey and Iran are the largest Muslim-majority countries; in Africa, Egypt and Nigeria have the most populous Muslim communities.[142]
Most estimates indicate that the People's Republic of China has approximately 20 to 30 million Muslims (1.5% to 2% of the population).[143][144][145][146] However, data provided by the San Diego State University's International Population Center to U.S. News & World Report suggests that China has 65.3 million Muslims.[147] Islam is the second largest religion after Christianity in many European countries,[148] and is slowly catching up to that status in the Americas.
Denominations
Distribution of Islamic schools and branches in areas where large Muslim population are foundMain article: Islamic schools and branches
Islam consists of a number of religious denominations that are essentially similar in belief but which have significant theological and legal differences. The primary division is between the Sunni and the Shi'a, with Sufism generally considered to be a mystical inflection of Islam rather than a distinct school. Sunnis make up the largest branch of Islam[137][159][160] followed by the Shi'a[161] and the remaining number may belong to a variety of other Islamic sects.[162]
Sunni
Movements in IslamMain article: Sunni Islam
Sunni Muslims are the largest group in Islam, comprising the vast bulk of the world's 1.5 billion Muslims, hence the title Ahl as-Sunnah wa’l-Jamā‘ah (people of the principle and majority). In Arabic, as-Sunnah literally means "principle" or "path". The Qur'an and the Sunnah (the example of Muhammad's life) as recorded in hadith are the primary foundations of Sunni doctrine. Sunnis believe that the first four caliphs were the rightful successors to Muhammad; since God did not specify any particular leaders to succeed him, those leaders had to be elected. Sunnis believe that a caliph should be chosen by the whole community.[137][159]
There are four recognised madh'habs (schools of thought): Hanafi, Maliki, Shafi'i, and Hanbali. All four accept the validity of the others and a Muslim may choose any one that he or she finds agreeable.[163]
Shi'a
Main article: Shia Islam
The Shi'a constitute 10–13% of Islam[7] and are its second-largest branch.[164] They believe in the political and religious leadership of Imams from the progeny of Ali ibn Abi Talib, who according to most Shi'a are in a state of ismah, meaning infallibility. They believe that Ali ibn Abi Talib, as the cousin and son-in-law of Muhammad, was his rightful successor, and they call him the first Imam (leader), rejecting the legitimacy of the previous Muslim caliphs. To most Shi'a, an Imam rules by right of divine appointment and holds "absolute spiritual authority" among Muslims, having final say in matters of doctrine and revelation. Shias regard Ali as the prophet's true successor and believe that a caliph is appointed by divine will.[165] Shi'a Islam has several branches, the largest of which is the Twelvers (iṯnāʿašariyya) which the label Shi'a generally refers to. Although the Twelver Shi'a share many core practices with the Sunni, the two branches disagree over the proper importance and validity of specific collections of hadith. The Twelver Shi'a follow a legal tradition called Ja'fari jurisprudence.[166] Other smaller groups include the Ismaili and Zaidi, who differ from Twelvers in both their line of successors and theological beliefs.[167]
Sufism
Sufi whirling dervishes in TurkeyMain article: Sufism
Sufism is a mystical-ascetic approach to Islam that seeks to find divine love and knowledge through direct personal experience of God. By focusing on the more spiritual aspects of religion, Sufis strive to obtain direct experience of God by making use of "intuitive and emotional faculties" that one must be trained to use.[168] Sufism and Islamic law are usually considered to be complementary, although Sufism has been criticized by salafi for what they see as an unjustified religious innovation. Many Sufi orders, or tariqas, can be classified as either Sunni or Shi'a, but others classify themselves simply as 'Sufi'.[169][170] Some Sufi groups can be described as non-Islamic when their teachings are very distinct from Islam.
Ahmadiyya
Main article: Ahmadiyya
Ahmadiyya is an Islamic religious movement founded towards the end of the 19th century and originating with the life and teachings of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad (1835–1908). Ghulam Ahmad was an important religious figure who claimed to have fulfilled the prophecies about the world reformer of the end times, who was to herald the Eschaton as predicted in the traditions of various world religions and bring about the final triumph of Islam as per Islamic prophecy. He claimed that he was the Mujaddid (divine reformer) of the 14th Islamic century, the promised Messiah (“Second Coming of Christ”) and Mahdi awaited by Muslims.[171][172][173][174][175] Ahmadi emphasis lay in the belief that Islam is the final law for humanity as revealed to Muhammad and the necessity of restoring to it its true essence and pristine form, which had been lost through the centuries. Thus, Ahmadis view themselves as leading the revival and peaceful propagation of Islam.[176]
Others
There are also Muslims who generally reject the Hadith, often called Quranists.
The Kharijites are a sect that dates back to the early days of Islam. The only surviving branch of the Kharijites is Ibadism. Unlike most Kharijite groups, Ibadism does not regard sinful Muslims as unbelievers. The Imamate is an important topic in Ibadi legal literature, which stipulates that the leader should be chosen solely on the basis of his knowledge and piety, and is to be deposed if he acts unjustly. Most Ibadi Muslims live in Oman.[177] There are communities of Ibadis that took refuge in the Mzab oases in southern Algeria, the Nafusa Mountains in western Libya, and in Djerba Island (Tunisia), in order to avoid persecution in certain periods of history.[178]
Other religions
The Alevi, Yazidi, Druze, Bábí, Bahá'í, Berghouata and Ha-Mim movements either emerged out of Islam or came to share certain beliefs with Islam. Some consider themselves separate while others still sects of Islam though controversial in certain beliefs with mainstream Muslims.
Nice post Icy lots of good data, but bottom line that still leaves over 100,000,000 Muslims that want us all dead, and that is such a huge number...
Until the rest of the Peaceful Muslims grow some and stand up to these non peacefully fanatics, this is kind of like Nam, you could not tell just who the enemy was with out a score card so you flat out had to assume they all wanted you dead in order to stay alive......
Until the rest of the Peaceful Muslims grow some and stand up to these non peacefully fanatics, this is kind of like Nam, you could not tell just who the enemy was with out a score card so you flat out had to assume they all wanted you dead in order to stay alive......
theicemanmpls
Banned
:stop::stop::stop:
where on eath did you get they all want americans dead?
I can assure you, if the muslims that live here wanted me dead, just like viet nam, I would be out wearing my fanny pack, and Ben Cartright consealment vest looking to take out all them son's of Islam.
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