non resident permit lie

[Daugherty16]

Know Your Laws

Thanks guys. I was thinking along those same lines but just wanted some clarification. Nice to know i can travel with a bit of peace of mind . Hope you all have a very Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year.

The more you learn, the more you will find yourself wanting to know! It is fine to take general information from this site, or others. However, you owe it to yourself and your family to do more, in my opinion.

The best advice i, or anyone, can give you is to read all the applicable statutes concerning licensing, concealed carry, use of lethal force, notification of LEO, and so on. Here is the link to your state: Link Removed. Google <statename> general statutes and you'll find appropriate links for any state you have interest in.

After you read them, consult an attorney to answer any specific questions you still have. Ignorance of the law will not be a successful defense.

Good luck, good reading, and here's hoping everyone has a very Merry Christmas and Happy New Year. See you next time around!

 

[fxstchawg]

looking for info. I am traveling to Florida in the spring via Motorcycle. I have NH/Ma/Me ccw permits. On the pack and go site Virginia and West Virginia are open carry without a liscense. If I have it holstered on my hip would this work not really concealed or quite fully open. Otherwise I will lock in my seperate saddlebags

 

[LVLouisCyphre]

looking for info. I am traveling to Florida in the spring via Motorcycle. I have NH/Ma/Me ccw permits. On the pack and go site Virginia and West Virginia are open carry without a liscense. If I have it holstered on my hip would this work not really concealed or quite fully open. Otherwise I will lock in my seperate saddlebags

Yes just be careful not to conceal it accidentally. Also be forewarned you may be not welcome in some establishments for fuel, food or lodging. You cannot OC in SC. You'll have to lock it in accordance to 18 USC 926A when you're going through SC. When you get to Florida, it must be concealed as it's a duty to conceal State.

 

[marlin.357]

a co worker just completed hid CCW class and was looking to get a non resident permit that is honored in alabama where his parents live. the instructor told him there's no state that honors a permit for a state where you don't live. if you go to a state with a non resident permit, even states that say is accepted, it wont be and you'll be arrested and jailed. what is the clarification on this?

I think I'd have to question everything this "instructor" said!

 

[torontogunguy]

You can travel with a CCW. The federal code comes into play when transporting a firearm through a state where you do not have a permit. Nothing stops you from traveling if your permit is honored in the states that you will be traveling through.

As a prolific traveller I can assure you that this is correct. However, not all LEO's are familiar with reciprocity and I would buy myself a $2 binder and print out the reciprocity laws from each state showing you are authorized; I would add to that all of my personal documents to do with firearms, proof of residency and citizenship, etc.

As far as travelling through states where you are NOT authorized to carry, the FED law kicks in but you still have to store your firearm unloaded. HARBOUR FREIGHT has wee safes that will screw down in the back of a van or in your trunk - I highly recommend picking up TWO of these little wee beasties as we have done. One is used for storage of the firearm (in a gunsock, softcase, holster - or more often than not a black cloth shopping bag into which you will place your firearm so you don't have to go looking for a place to disarm and unload that is out of sight) and that storage is unloaded and I would not even leave the magazine in the firearm if it's a semi. Further, we place a "tell" in the firearm that shows the LEO who may want to have a look that it is unloaded. There are several types, the most popular being a brightly colored plastic round with a flap on it that sticks out; another type being a brightly colored barrel lock.

In the other safe we lock up our magazines while still filled... and if you want to be totally anally safe about the situation you can unload the magazine into one of those plastic ammo boxes but I think that's overboard.

We have been stopped and declared our guns to be in the rear of the van in safes. Only once were we asked to open the back hatch and upon seeing two locked safes the LEO did not even ask to have them opened and wished us a good day, got in his car and left.

It is appreciated when you declare up front that you have a permit and when you show that the guns are locked up in a state where you are not permitted to carry.

I would go to the BATFE site and print out the interstate transport regs and put those in the binder as well. We happen to have a laminator so for 5 cents each, we laminate each sheet. Makes them look more "official looking", especially when there is a cover page entitled "PERMITS" and another cover page entitled "AUTHORIZATIONS" whose first page is the federal statute for interstate transport of a legally owned firearm followed by the reciprocity agreements (the agreements themselves if you can find them; otherwise at least the list off the state's website).

And keep in mind that the laws can change in a blink. And that the info on the state's website is not always accurate; for instance, we have a PA non res permit; the reciprocity agreement between PA/FL is on the PA website signed by both governors and says nothing about res/non-res, but the fact is that FL does not recognize non=res licenses/permits from any other state except itself.

Be safe.

 

[torontogunguy]

You only have to follow the rules under the Firearm Owners Protection Act if you want to be protected by it from state laws. If you are carrying with a valid permit honored by the states you are visiting, than you can carry handguns (rifles and shotguns should still be transported unloaded, in the trunk, etc. if you are passing through multiple jurisdictions). In that case, you are not violating any state laws to begin with.

The FOPA was meant so that you could travel with firearms without restriction from state to state. If you are traveling across state lines into a bordering state that honors your CCW permit, then you don't need to transport unloaded, cased, etc. However, if you are crossing, even temporarily, into a state that does not honor your permit, then you'd better have it unloaded, cased, and in the trunk if you want to avoid legal trouble.

Suggest in the strongest possible terms that you study the terms of the Federal statute that allows you to transport from state to state where you do not have a valid CCW permit.

In a nutshell, the law permits you to travel from one state where you may legally possess/carry CCW to another state where you may legally do the same; under the following conditions (essentially): that the handgun be unloaded and locked up in a location that is not easily accessible from the driver's compartment (i.e. in the trunk is a good thing... we have a van and have two wee safes from Harbour Freight $39 each bolted to the back of the van in the seat well where the rear seats would normally fold into. In one we carry our pistols in a soft case and the other is used to lock up the ammo. To be totally anal about this, we also either disassemble the firearm (remove the slide) or we put a trigger / action lock on it.

The old adage, better safe than sorry applies here in spades. If you should meet up with a LEO whose had a bad day it is going to get you a trip to the local jail, cost you $25K and most likely your firearm... or at least multiple trips back to the state to defend yourself and retrieve your firearm(s).

Remember, there are states that simply do not recognize that Federal transport law as well and although you will win when it gets to court it is going to make you hurt.

We do not carry in states where there is any doubt, not concealed nor openly nor in the glove box. Into the safe they go, unloaded, etc.

Far too complicated - we need a federal reciprocity law like we have for Drivers Licenses.

 

[g30sheepdog]

Far too complicated - we need a federal reciprocity law like we have for Drivers Licenses.

+1! Agreed!

 

[RON IN PA]

Ccw nationwide

Liberal democrats dont want ccw anywhere,, their afraid of us. They want to keep the "citizens" under their thumb,,!!

 

[torontogunguy]

Liberal democrats dont want ccw anywhere,, their afraid of us. They want to keep the "citizens" under their thumb,,!!

I don't disagree one smidgen. I believe that it has been and will continue to be a struggle to maintain or constitutional rights - but are we lucky or what? Just take a look at the countries, like England and Australia, where guns have been confiscated and melted down. The crime rates have skyrocketed to the point that their best LEO's are now packing or have taken to another career. Their existing LEO's will not travel alone, day or night, and even in two LEO cars will always wait for backup before doing business onsite. They are talking about eliminating the guns from the LEO's in England as well now and replacing same with heavy chalk, since by the time anything happens all they need is chalk and soapy water.

And look at Kanada (yep, up here) where we, in fact, have the right to carry in LAW! There is even an ATC (Authorization to Carry) form still available but there are less than a dozen holders of that PRIVILEGE in the entire country. Even off-duty cops, judges, bankers, etc., are not safe or able to protect themselves. Granted that there are some grey areas but the bottom line is that there is a HUGE battle for gun owner rights happening 24/7 in Kanada just to keep the guns we have. And the government has patience! Instead of banning short barrels and assault rifles (what the heck are these anyway?) they simply banned them by placing them in a prohibited category of weapon and giving those that already have them the right to continue until either their license expires by accident or they pass away, at which time the weapons are confiscated and melted down. Wonder what the next step is? No constitutional right to protect one's life up here and the police no longer have the obligation by law to do so.

One of the reasons I take great pride and reassurance in my US Citizenship is simple 'the constitution'. One of the reasons I take great shame in being a US Citizen is simply 'the constitution'. It appears that many states consider that I am no longer one of "We the People" the moment I step off US soil AND THAT INCLUDES SERVING OVERSEAS IN MANY CASES. The things that we do to our vets (I am Viet Nam era) is simply a disgrace.

We need to take the Israeli tact (by necessity) or the Swedish tact (by thoughtful intent) and make it MANDATORY for every home to own a gun and for every home to take basic military training and service. Know what the violent crime rate is in Israel and in Sweden? I won't bore you... look it up and make copies cuz you can use them to rebut any anti-gun moron without saying a word. Oh heck... I have to tell you. The VIOLENT crime rate in Israel and in Sweden in pretty close to ZERO (terrorism excepted). Wonder why? Easy... the bad guys go next door where it is much safer to do business. And EVERYONE has a healthy respect for the general populace, including the government.

We are coming around full circle slowly and I personally believe we will retrieve our right to concealed carry for self protection but it will not come easy and it will not be kept easily.

Each and every one of us needs to let our politicians know where our votes go and we need a united voice in the NRA. Believe me, many of us can afford to miss a meal and send off membership dues to NRA. My membership is paid for LIFE. Both in the USA and in Kanada (CSSA). I chose to sell of a couple of my guns to make that possible and I cannot tell you how good that makes me feel - I know I am doing my part FWIW. If everyone did their part we would not have a problem I can assure you.

Now... that national reciprocity law.

 

[Tucker's Mom]

Two points: #1. I have heard that ..."a Canadian is an American without guns..." and #2..You mentioned Sweden. I have heard it is Switzerland that requires each household to have a gun. In fact the government issues a gun to every man when he reached his 18th year of age. They also issue a minimum amount of bullets. They are allowed to practice at a shooting range as much or as little as they should. Target ammos, they have to buy. Protection ammo is supplied to every home with government issued guns. One thing though -- every men, when the time comes, can be called upon as a militia to protect their country. They have no soldiers -- they have the entire country.

Can you please correct me on issue #2?

Thanks.

 

[MONTANA]

a co worker just completed hid CCW class and was looking to get a non resident permit that is honored in alabama where his parents live. the instructor told him there's no state that honors a permit for a state where you don't live. if you go to a state with a non resident permit, even states that say is accepted, it wont be and you'll be arrested and jailed. what is the clarification on this?

Here is the way I think it is in Montana. I would be interested in hearing from Montana members if I need to be corrected. Montana will recognize your out-of-state concealed carry permit if your are traveling through, based on recipriocity, however if you move to the state, you must have a Montana permit to carry concealed within the city limits. I have a Florida Concealed Carry Permit. Before moving here, while traveling through Montana, it was honored. After I moved here, I had to get a Montana permit. The problem with this, is that a person can look at a reciprocity map and it will indicate "yes, your Florida permit is honored" but the map doesn't clarify that it is only for non-residents who are traveling. Again, nobody put this in the bank. It could be wrong and I would like clarification from Montana members if I am confused.

 

[utimmer43]

Here is the way I think it is in Montana. I would be interested in hearing from Montana members if I need to be corrected. Montana will recognize your out-of-state concealed carry permit if your are traveling through, based on recipriocity, however if you move to the state, you must have a Montana permit to carry concealed within the city limits. I have a Florida Concealed Carry Permit. Before moving here, while traveling through Montana, it was honored. After I moved here, I had to get a Montana permit. The problem with this, is that a person can look at a reciprocity map and it will indicate "yes, your Florida permit is honored" but the map doesn't clarify that it is only for non-residents who are traveling. Again, nobody put this in the bank. It could be wrong and I would like clarification from Montana members if I am confused.

Referring to the "Travelers Guide", I see nothing stating that MT residents must have MT permits in the city. What it DOES say is that "The state requires a license to carry a concealed weapon within the boundaries of most population centers." and that "Montana allows anyone to carry a concealed firearm when they are outside the boundary of a city, town, or logging camp."

 

[MONTANA]

Referring to the "Travelers Guide", I see nothing stating that MT residents must have MT permits in the city. What it DOES say is that "The state requires a license to carry a concealed weapon within the boundaries of most population centers." and that "Montana allows anyone to carry a concealed firearm when they are outside the boundary of a city, town, or logging camp."

Thank you for that clarification. I was also unable to find any documentation to support my belief that a resident of Montana must have a MONTANA concealed carry permit. I stand corrected unless someone else can site a specific Montana state law.

 

[Mountaingoat61]

I haven't read all the posts here so this may already be posted but your instructor needs to do a bit more research. Many states acknowledge non-resident permits. Utah is recognized my as many as 33 states and issues to non-residents. There are, I think, 4 states that do not recognize non-resident. Colorado, Florida, New Hampshire and one of the Carolinas... I may be wrong on that one. Anyway, I'm in Idaho, taking my Utah permit class today. The only reason I'm not getting Idaho first is that Washington (right next door to me) doesn't recognize Idaho but does recognize Utah. Go figure.... The only reason I'll need to get my Idaho is to be able to carry in Colorado where much of my family lives. If Washington would recognize Idaho, I wouldn't need the Utah permit as Idaho is recognized in 26 states. Idaho and Texas also recognize all other state permits.

 

[torontogunguy]

Fellows, the best bet is to try and get the information right from the state website on concealed carry, keeping in mind that the rules change day to day. In fact, when we take a driving vacation, we take our laptop and stay where there is WiFi coverage so that we can continue to check our route for changes.

We are headed to Nevada at the end of the month hopefully and they no longer recognize any of the half dozen permits we currently carry, so guess what? We are going to get a Nevada and an Arizona permit if we have the time to do so while we are there. Otherwise we will do so on our annual loooooong trip for sure.

After having a big revolver stuck in my face in Orlando, home of Mickey, I carry concealed everywhere that I am legally eligible to do so. Had the BG not been so high on drugs I do not believe I would be here today.

 

[utimmer43]

There are, I think, 4 states that do not recognize non-resident. Colorado, Florida, New Hampshire and one of the Carolinas... I may be wrong on that one.

SC as well as MI. And altogether new to the world of reciprocity, ME also only recognizes resident permits (from DE, LA, and SD. Not sure how they came up with that list.)

 

[torontogunguy]

Regardless of what you read on this or any other website; the only information that you should take as valid is information from the state website itself; print it out and put it in a binder. In fact, print out TWO copies and put it in TWO binders; one to keep in your car and one to keep in your luggage. I would also take the time to read the regulations regarding concealed carry for the state to ensure you understand ALL the rules which are not neccesarily posted up front on the state website.

The internet is a great source of reference material but when it comes to the law I would make sure that I have a printout of the state's rendition of their law and I would double verify the rules while enroute.

Keep safe. Hide it well and never tell. The crime rate in Newcastle, England has skyrocketed so badly that police are refusing to attend potentially troublesome calls without backup in two man cars. Our friend, a police officer in Manchester has gone into the hardware business despite his love for policing... it has become a dangerous profession beyond their wildest dreams. Only the bad guys have guns. And plenty of them. Crimes that used to be committed in the darkness of night are now committed in broad daylight. And the response of city aldermen? To put in cameras and monitor the folks on the street. Sic.

Our family in the UK has been forced to move to remote locations to reduce their chances of being the object of criminal attack. They have installed alarm systems, automatic door locks, reinforced doors and windows, formed neighborhood associations and gated communities and even with all of that half of the family has moved to remote coastal villages for peace of mind (they are indeed lovely and the pubs and pub grub is amazing).

One does not stop in England to render assistance to a stranded motorist any longer and the cellphone business is booming.

All as a result of the gun ban. Speak to any cop and they will tell you emphatically (off the record) that the gun ban is making them look forward to early retirement, making their jobs more dangerous, skyrocketing the crime rates and so on. The bobby on the beat in the UK when asked discretely will state emphatically that he/she wishes that every home had a firearm in it and a trained user. Violent crime would plumment. Ditto Australia but I cannot speak to that from personal experience.