How to handle a traffic stop

[Firefighterchen]

Their are legal limits to their authority. Beyond the legal limits to their authority are their whims, opinions and power trips.

Your post shows the exact issue we are having. There are some who do not want to believe the cops have ANY authority.

You just proved his point. Navy never said "they do not have ANY authority." He said their authority has limits...anything more is whims, opinions, and power trips.

The rest of your post following your first two lines (which you did not understand Navy's post to begin with), is nothing more than power tripping police.

The last Washingtonian to refuse to submit to a police officer power tripping, win $15k and the police are being retrained.

Don't call us Bad a$$e$ with disrespect, if YOU don't care enough to defend your Rights.

Sent from my HTCONE using USA Carry mobile app

 

[CharlesMorrison]

Link Removed




Sent from behind Enemy Lines.

 

[NavyLCDR]

The last Washingtonian to refuse to submit to a police officer power tripping, win $15k and the police are being retrained.

And until the weather turned bad a couple of weeks ago, him and his wife were enjoying the new motorcycles the city of Bellingham paid for . whodat3720 sure likes to exaggerate, eh?

 

[wolf_fire]

another foolish post, I will answer point by point
the cops are human and that is why you need to be very wary of dealing with them, you never really know the mental disposition of the guy who is detaining you.
that thin blue line is not there to protect me or any other citizen, or ******* in cop vernacular , that blue line exists to protect themselves when they break laws and the blue line forms a means of protection for them
they are certainly at risk at being on the wrong end of a violent encounter and that is why they make the big bux, I don't see very many people volunteering to play cop, and ones who do are the whack jobs.

I appreciate that. I volunteer with our Sheriff's department as a Deputy in the Reserve Division. These guys give so much back to the community by providing protection and security for local community bazaars, fairs, church festivals, and whenever the department needs extra hands. They do this because they see a need in the community that isn't being fulfilled. But you can sit there and say we are all a bunch of whack jobs, you do have that right, no matter how wrong you are in expressing it.

 

[N R A]

Several people refer to dead horses. Just what should one do in a forum, if not post replies to posts? Gripe about people that do post I guess. Lead, follow, or get out of the way.

What is the single most important thing every LEO wants everyday?

Every cop wants to go home to his family. Number 1

High stress job. At a traffic stop, the police officer does not know who he might encounter in any given vehicle. I have my ID and my CC card visible, in my hand. That breaks the tension and the police officer knows he is talking to someone that passed the same FBI check he has to pass.

With the tension gone, so likely is your ticket for a bad taillight.

 

[Firefighterchen]

What is the single most important thing every LEO wants everyday?

Every cop wants to go home to his family. Number 1

Even at the expense of liberty...

That breaks the tension and the police officer knows he is talking to someone that passed the same FBI check he has to pass.

With the tension gone, so likely is your ticket for a bad taillight.

Until he runs the permit and license he has no idea if it's real or not.

Do those with a permission slip giving up their freedom of arms deserve to get off tickets more than those who don't submit to the government?

Sent from my HTCONE using USA Carry mobile app

 

[apvbguy]

I appreciate that. I volunteer with our Sheriff's department as a Deputy in the Reserve Division. These guys give so much back to the community by providing protection and security for local community bazaars, fairs, church festivals, and whenever the department needs extra hands. They do this because they see a need in the community that isn't being fulfilled. But you can sit there and say we are all a bunch of whack jobs, you do have that right, no matter how wrong you are in expressing it.

you commingeled two comments, one was aimed at the professionals and the other stated that there aren't too many who volunteer for the job, clearly you are one of the NOT TOO MANY who do volunteer to play cop.

 

[apvbguy]

Several people refer to dead horses. Just what should one do in a forum, if not post replies to posts? Gripe about people that do post I guess. Lead, follow, or get out of the way.

What is the single most important thing every LEO wants everyday?

Every cop wants to go home to his family. Number 1

High stress job. At a traffic stop, the police officer does not know who he might encounter in any given vehicle. I have my ID and my CC card visible, in my hand. That breaks the tension and the police officer knows he is talking to someone that passed the same FBI check he has to pass.

With the tension gone, so likely is your ticket for a bad taillight.

peeing on your leg shows compliance as well, part of the leo's job description calls for enforcing the laws, he shall not break any laws in order to perform his duties as a leo

 

[NavyLCDR]

Every cop wants to go home to his family. Number 1

The safest place for my gun is in it's holster. Telling the officer about the gun in my holster does absolutely NOTHING in reality to make the police safer. Unless I handle my gun, the officer is just as safe whether or not they know about my gun that will remain untouched in my holster. If the officer chooses to handle my gun because I told him about, now he, myself, and every bystander is in MORE danger from them handling my gun without need. In addition, showing the officer my CPL and "putting them at ease" also possibly increases the danger to them, which I will explain in my next point.

I have my ID and my CC card visible, in my hand. That breaks the tension and the police officer knows he is talking to someone that passed the same FBI check he has to pass.

Just because I show the officer a driver's license does that mean that I am actually currently licensed to drive? NO. How many people do they catch every day driving on revoked or suspended licenses? If the officer is put "at ease" just because I show him a piece of paper and tell him it is valid, I am training him to allow his guard to be let down. That puts them more at risk.

So, if you are really so concerned about the officer's safety in reality, it seems like the safest thing you could do for that officer is to keep your mouth shut about your gun and permit. That being said....

With the tension gone, so likely is your ticket for a bad taillight.

^^^^it seems like that is the main objective of people who show their permits and tell about their guns. I don't buy this "officer safety", "politeness" and "respect" excuses for one minute because "officer safety" makes no sense whatsoever and their seems to be no desire to show equal "politeness" and "respect" to anyone else other than police officers.

 

[Deanimator]

High stress job. At a traffic stop, the police officer does not know who he might encounter in any given vehicle. I have my ID and my CC card visible, in my hand. That breaks the tension and the police officer knows he is talking to someone that passed the same FBI check he has to pass.

A cop who drops his guard merely because you PURPORT to have a concealed carry credential of some kind is too stupid for the job. It may get him seriously injured or killed at some point.

I obey the law, nothing more nothing less.

In Ohio, I HAVE to notify if carrying. Of course that's not good enough for some cops and groupies. They insist that I inform when NOT carrying, NOT IN ANY WAY mandated by law. I flat refuse, PERIOD.

Ohio cops have demonstrated multiple times that they cannot be trusted not to abuse mandatory notification. It needs to and eventually will be rescinded. When it is, I will no longer notify.

 

[whodat2710]

You just proved his point. Navy never said "they do not have ANY authority." He said their authority has limits...anything more is whims, opinions, and power trips.

The rest of your post following your first two lines (which you did not understand Navy's post to begin with), is nothing more than power tripping police.

The last Washingtonian to refuse to submit to a police officer power tripping, win $15k and the police are being retrained.

Don't call us Bad a$$e$ with disrespect, if YOU don't care enough to defend your Rights.

First, If you read my post again without your angry glasses on, I was agreeing with him. As a matter of fact, he's the only one I saw so far that both admitted that they have authority, and that they exceed it. Everyone else seemed either pro-cop or anti-cop, with no in between. If you take offense as one of the "bada$$es" that will defy all police authority, then if the shoe fits... Try reading my post again, and see where the only thing I actually recommend is knowing the limit of the cops authority so you know how to LEGALLY (and $15k type winningly) defend your rights.

 

[whodat2710]

If you think about it, since some of you will admit that there are some good cops out there, then think about this:
They do not fall under any federal jurisdiction,
They swore an oath to preserve protect and defend the constitution, (some take that seriously)
They have armories better stocked than most of ours.
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Knowing which ones can be trusted might be a good thing when the blue hats and brown shirts come to town and the fur starts to fly.

 

[Firefighterchen]

First, If you read my post again without your angry glasses on, I was agreeing with him. As a matter of fact, he's the only one I saw so far that both admitted that they have authority, and that they exceed it. Everyone else seemed either pro-cop or anti-cop, with no in between. If you take offense as one of the "bada$$es" that will defy all police authority, then if the shoe fits... Try reading my post again, and see where the only thing I actually recommend is knowing the limit of the cops authority so you know how to LEGALLY (and $15k type winningly) defend your rights.

No anger in my last post (just tired), or this one

I re read your reply, and I see where I misread your message (it wasn't aimed at Navy, I see that now). I'm not sure though why you think he was the only one...deanimator the post just before his also states they have authority to pull you over, but no authority to make someone do anything "extra-legal". I also haven't seen anyone post police do not have any authority in any other thread...but I may have missed it. As to those of use who refuse to submit to their authority, I may have been speaking of their "extra-legal" authority, the kind that gets them sued for $15k, which I will also talk fault for misreading if you were talking about those who refuse to obey their legal authority.

The only confusing part to me now is, you then speak about the police assuming guilt and finding a "work around" to search a vehicle. How is it in their authority to find a "work around" to oppress our 4th amendment rights? That in my opinion, is one of many "extra legal" authorities that has been deemed "reasonable, acceptable, and appropriatly legal authority." So while, I do agree police have authority and we should know where the limits are for that authority, that authority ends where my Rights begin. I draw my line at the Rights recognized by the Constitution, so no I am not offended as one of the bada$$e$ who refuse "all" authority, but I would probably look like one to you if you believe they have the authority to find "work around" plots or "extra legal" authority to demand my ID or to search my vehicle, I would refuse to those, so does that make me a bada$$? As I said...I haven't seen anyone claim they will refuse all authority of police...if you can, please let me know who has said that, I'm curious.

 

[NavyLCDR]

Your post shows the exact issue we are having. There are some who do not want to believe the cops have ANY authority. The bravado boys who refuse to admit it will still pull over when the blue lights flash in the rearview. Get over it, because they have authority whether you like it or not. -

whodat3720 sure likes to exaggerate, eh?

I also misread your reply, thinking it was directly to me, I apologize

If you think about it, since some of you will admit that there are some good cops out there

Since the population of police officers is taken from the population of human beings, I would say the ratio of bad officers to good officers is about the same as the ratio of intentional criminals to fairly law abiding citizens. I may go my whole life without ever needing to use my gun in self-defense against a criminal - but very few (although there are a couple) of members here think that carrying a gun for self-protection is excessive at all. So what I can't understand is the same people who feel that it excessive to just keep your mouth shut about anything and everything you are not legally required to disclose to a police officer because they might just be that one bad officer. Even though it is just as likely that you won't ever have an encounter with a bad police officer, it is better to be prepared the one time that you do.

 

[whodat2710]

The only confusing part to me now is, you then speak about the police assuming guilt and finding a "work around" to search a vehicle. How is it in their authority to find a "work around" to oppress our 4th amendment rights? That in my opinion, is one of many "extra legal" authorities that has been deemed "reasonable, acceptable, and appropriatly legal authority." So while, I do agree police have authority and we should know where the limits are for that authority, that authority ends where my Rights begin. I draw my line at the Rights recognized by the Constitution, so no I am not offended as one of the bada$$e$ who refuse "all" authority, but I would probably look like one to you if you believe they have the authority to find "work around" plots or "extra legal" authority to demand my ID or to search my vehicle, I would refuse to those, so does that make me a bada$$? As I said...I haven't seen anyone claim they will refuse all authority of police...if you can, please let me know who has said that, I'm curious.

Because in this part I was agreeing with the fact that there are bad cops, unconstitutional cops, power trippin' cops etc. and even provided examples. We always discuss how the laws apply to US as gun owners, open carriers, concealed carriers etc.; when discussions turn to cops usually degenerates rapidly to "badge-fluffers" and anarchists. Again, know the laws in your state so that you don't overstep your legal bounds in defending your rights.

 

[wolf_fire]

you commingeled two comments, one was aimed at the professionals and the other stated that there aren't too many who volunteer for the job, clearly you are one of the NOT TOO MANY who do volunteer to play cop.

Please share with me what I commingled: These are your words that you used that I replied to:

"I don't see very many people volunteering to play cop, and ones who do are the whack jobs."

You said that anyone that volunteers in law enforcement is a whack job. If you are now changing your story, fine.

Also none of us "plays" cop. We are fully trained and therefore we are deputized by the Sheriff and wear the same uniform as the ones who are paid. We go on details for organizations and events in which the people that run the events could not pay for police presence. Also, we go on details when there aren't enough paid LEO's for a certain situation. For example when the G20 summit came to our city the Reserves were right there with the paid LEO's in the same uniform. The Reserve division could be put into an analogy as the Reserves in the military. When they get called up to go to Afghanistan are they "playing soldier"? No they are soldiers. In the same vein, we are trained as LE and are LE anytime we put on the uniform and at no other time. The difference is, I only put in about 175-225 hours a year into it and I'm not paid. I enjoy my regular job and do not wish to give it up. However, I also enjoy giving back to the community with my trained skill set. There is no "playing" about it.

 

[Axeanda45]

Speaking as someone who is obviously one that whodat and some others call bada$$, I have NEVER, EVER stated that cops dont have any authority....


Attempt to pull me over for speeding, I pull over. Ask me for my dl and proof of ins and registration? I give them to you , all the while being very polite and submissive.... Write me up for speeding, I sign the ticket and say sorry for speeding.... See how that works? You be polite and dont infringe on my RIGHTS and you and I both go away from the encounter in great shape.....Heck, I might even pay the darn fine as long as it wasnt a speed trap.


However, there are things worth fighting for in this world and if you want to go home at the end of your shift, DO NOT INFRINGE ON MY RIGHTS.... Simple as that.

Now, I know that some of you here are going to now say I just threatened to kill cops.... You are imagining things just like you always do....

 

[whodat2710]

OK, I’m gonna go Bluesstringer on this post:
-

Speaking as someone who is obviously one that whodat and some others call bada$$, I have NEVER, EVER stated that cops dont have any authority.... Attempt to pull me over for speeding, I pull over. Ask me for my dl and proof of ins and registration? I give them to you , all the while being very polite and submissive.... Write me up for speeding, I sign the ticket and say sorry for speeding.... See how that works? You be polite and dont infringe on my RIGHTS and you and I both go away from the encounter in great shape.....Heck, I might even pay the darn fine as long as it wasnt a speed trap.
However, there are things worth fighting for in this world and if you want to go home at the end of your shift, DO NOT INFRINGE ON MY RIGHTS.... Simple as that.

My original post

“… There are some who do not want to believe the cops have ANY authority. The bravado boys who refuse to admit it will still pull over when the blue lights flash in the rearview. Get over it, because they have authority whether you like it or not.
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The problem is with the cops that exceed or abuse the authority defined by the law. If you tell one that they do not have permission to search your car, 90% of the time they are going to assume guilt and call the dogs or look for a work-around so that they can search anyway. Watch cops and see how they react when they come across a gun and say "ahhhh, one in the chamber" like it is a clue.
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Ayoob's biggest problem is that he's giving opinions on matters based on a cops point of view and what would make their life easier. Some of his self defense advice is good, but anything that pertains to interaction with the cops is suspect because the laws differ from state to state. Just know the laws well enough in your state to know the limit of their authority.
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You bad-a$$es that refuse to "submit to their authority", good luck to you; but the first we'll know of it is from a news report or a dash-cam video.”

Either I can’t type or some of you can't read. You are agreeing with me on every point, but some on here would say your politeness (in an attempt to get things over with quickly and without incident) is "badge-fluffing" or getting on your knees for the cop. I am sure those same people do exactly as you and I do if pulled over, but they talk tough on here.
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I can’t figure out the “multi-quote” thing but I’m not interested in calling anyone out anyway. Here are a couple of posts just from this thread, but if you go to the LEO encounters thread you can see some real tough guys.

“are you still trying to justify peeing on yourself to show your submission to authoritative figures?”

Politeness, and obeying your state laws is not "submission"

“what causes you to think that a cop is any different from any other person?”

The fact that another person doesn't have the authority to pull me over and write me a speeding ticket

And from you –

“ Do those with a permission slip giving up their freedom of arms deserve to get off tickets more than those who don't submit to the government?”

Are you saying that if your state requires a permit, you aren't going to get one and carry anyway? If your state requires that you inform the LEO, will you keep it a secret and hope nothing comes of it?

 

[BluesStringer]

OK, I’m gonna go Bluesstringer on this post:

If you mean you're going to quote somebody and respond directly to that quote, then fine, finally somebody gets my intention for all the quote-boxes in my posts.

If you mean something different, then all I can say is....

Blues

 

[whodat2710]

I was describing the occasional looooonnnnnngggg read posts too! :sarcastic: but yeah, you got it. I can only occasionally figure out how to get different quotes in the same post.