Gun Owner Calls Help Hotline, Gets Raided by SWAT

[longslide10]

Sounds like this thread was started out of hatred for the police instead of concern for the suicidal guy.

No hatred for police unless they step over the line which in many cases they have been and then they are no better than common street thugs. No where did it mention he was suicidal and most people that contemplate suicide don't call a help line they just go do it. People that do call want attention, a shoulder to cry on.

Police are a necessary evil but lately there is too much dispatching of SWAT and for what? I believe it is to create fear so ordinary folk are less likely take a stand for their rights. This has become more rampant since Maobama took office btw.

 

[jhodge83]

Nah, that doesn't happen here ;-) let me ask you, are you an LEO or ex-LEO? You seem to be defending the police action and I don't understand why with their attitudes toward citizens today and gestapo mentality derived from DHS and the WH

nope, not A LEO or AN ex-LEO. my military training would be about the closest to what you are assuming, i suppose. the "gestapo" mentality has been going on for quite a while. did they execute their actions correctly here, possibly not, but at the same time their reason for them was correct. if the guy had actually paid attention to where he was calling before he started making statements, it wouldnt have happened. they did their job to protect citizens from the information they were given. it sounds like what they were given was #1) depressed vet calls the suicide hotline, #2)has guns in his possession, #3) hung up the phone and turned it off, so there was no getting in contact with him to make sure he was ok.


i guess that if someone tries calling 911 because they are hurt, but speed dial their local restaurant instead, the police or EMTs shouldnt force their way into the house to help the resident since they werent the ones called?

 

[longslide10]

Sounds like this thread was started out of hatred for the police instead of concern for the suicidal guy.

On the contrary it was started out to point out the rise of excessive police force and brutality against people not deserving it. When police say ******* your constitutional rights there is a serious concern too all of us.

What if you had an argument with your bank about a deposit you made and they clearly made the error and you said a few choice expletives and asked to talk to a manager and they hung up and called the police saying you threatened to beat that person up, clearly a lie, next thing you know 12 members of SWAT show up at your house sending tear gas and flash grenades through the windows, knock your door off it's hinges and enter then rifle butt your son/daughter in the face and drag you out kicking and screaming not knowing what the hell is going on. Your rights and those of your family were just violated with extreme prejudice. Would you still say the police were just doing there job? I don't think so Tim.

 

[longslide10]

nope, not A LEO or AN ex-LEO. my military training would be about the closest to what you are assuming, i suppose. the "gestapo" mentality has been going on for quite a while. did they execute their actions correctly here, possibly not, but at the same time their reason for them was correct. if the guy had actually paid attention to where he was calling before he started making statements, it wouldnt have happened. they did their job to protect citizens from the information they were given. it sounds like what they were given was #1) depressed vet calls the suicide hotline, #2)has guns in his possession, #3) hung up the phone and turned it off, so there was no getting in contact with him to make sure he was ok.


i guess that if someone tries calling 911 because they are hurt, but speed dial their local restaurant instead, the police or EMTs shouldnt force their way into the house to help the resident since they werent the ones called?

I think it could have been handled differently that's all. They could have sent 2 cops over to check on him and then if things got ugly call backup/SWAT. It always seems they send out a fire brigade to extinguish a match. Just saying.

 

[walt629]

This just pisses me off to no end. If this isn't police state gestapo BS I don't know what is. I guess you can't call help lines anymore w/o being considered a terrorist.


Gun Owner Calls Help Hotline, Gets Raided by SWAT | Gun Digest - We Know Guns So You Know Guns

I hope he gets every penny of the $500K he's going after. I'm not sure I would have stopped at the $500K. This is absolutely outrageous.

 

[jhodge83]

I think it could have been handled differently that's all. They could have sent 2 cops over to check on him and then if things got ugly call backup/SWAT. It always seems they send out a fire brigade to extinguish a match. Just saying.

i agree, but to try to play the guy as having no fault in the situation and claiming that it only happened b/c he's a gun owner and it's all about obama taking over is completely obsurd.

 

[jaysonindaytona]

Under those situations I have to go with the cops based on the info they had. More so when you look at the number of Vets who have
snapped lately. They may even have done him more good then bad. A 72hour hold can be a good thing sometimes and may have gotten him
some needed help..

 

[FN1910]

On the contrary it was started out to point out the rise of excessive police force and brutality against people not deserving it. When police say ******* your constitutional rights there is a serious concern too all of us.

What if you had an argument with your bank about a deposit you made and they clearly made the error and you said a few choice expletives and asked to talk to a manager and they hung up and called the police saying you threatened to beat that person up, clearly a lie, next thing you know 12 members of SWAT show up at your house sending tear gas and flash grenades through the windows, knock your door off it's hinges and enter then rifle butt your son/daughter in the face and drag you out kicking and screaming not knowing what the hell is going on. Your rights and those of your family were just violated with extreme prejudice. Would you still say the police were just doing there job? I don't think so Tim.

If you called me and let out a few choice expletives I would hang up on you too. I may not call the police but you don't cuss me and then expect me to keep on taking it nor would I ask any of my employees to do it. If you cannot discuss or argue without cussing then you have no right to even be heard or be transferred over to a manager. The one thing I get from this board constantly is that people think that if they ask for a cops supervisor or a manager then the cop or employee is supposed to tremble in fear.

Sorry about the rant but anytime someone starts cussing at me they have lost any chance of me helping them solve their problem. And if you start cussing telling me you are going to beat my ### or whatever I am going to call the cops and you are guilty of threatening me.

The fellow in the article claims that he didn't mention suicide. He called the SUICIDE HOT LINE said he had problems, hung up then refused to answer his phone. That is like calling 911 and saying there is a problem here then hanging up. You may have called the wrong number but at least you could be courteous enough to tell the you called the wrong number instead of being a creep about it. Around here at least if you dial a wrong number and just hang up you will get a call back. I am not sure if it is a local thing or what but if you dial a wrong number you better stay on the line long enough to explain.

 

[tuts40]

Until it happens to you.....Right? Yawn

Or his neighbor, or his friend, or his (fill in the blank), or happens with magnificent repetitiveness across this 'free' land...

 

[tuts40]

Under those situations I have to go with the cops based on the info they had. More so when you look at the number of Vets who have
snapped lately. They may even have done him more good then bad. A 72hour hold can be a good thing sometimes and may have gotten him
some needed help..

Moscow is calling, you'd better go.

 

[Caribou]

Let's see:
No crime committed
No claim of illegal action
No search warrant
Gentleman was separated from any weapons
Gentleman was in custody (without arrest warrant or claim of wrong doing)

I personally don't think his arrest was right but I do see that there could be a good argument for it.

Breaking and entering his home is another issue. As he was separated from everything inside there was no reason that waiting for a search warrant would have a down side. I doubt that there were grounds for a warrant so that may explain why they did not attempt to get one. Breaking down the door and destroying his assets is inexcusable. If they had the right to enter his home then they had the right to remove the keys from his pocket. Leaving the door broken so as to allow access to the home by the weather and any passerby is unbelievable.

Sounds as if this team committed the District crime of Breaking and Entering as well as federal crimes involving violation of his civil and constitutional rights. I doubt they will ever be prosecuted.

You don't have to be anti-cop to be against some of their actions. The fact that there are ex-police in prison is a pretty good indicator that not all cops follow the law. If this article represents the facts accurately then the team leader and a number of his subordinates should be in jail or at least looking for new work. I do believe that as a sworn officer they swore to defend the U.S.Constitution.

 

[Cayuga306]

It amazes me how much information people have just assumed from the article. Again the article leaves out huge sections that could justify police action or make the case against them. There is no where near enough info in that article for anyone to make a judgement of what actually happened. Huge blocks of time are missing. What happened in that time? What did he say to the suicide hotline? What did the hotline say to the police? Were a cop or two sent over while he was knocked out from his sleeping pills? What did the police do or not do in the time that this vet with a problem who had guns and called the suicide hotline wasn't answering the phone? I'm sorry, but how can anyone make an accurate judgement either way based on that little bit of information?

 

[wooddoctor]

Look… here it is in a 45 shell….approximately 100 people die on the highways nationwide every day. The bedwetting lib-Turds will make issue of a patriot that severed his country. What did he do wrong .. it is for less than all the lunatics with driver licenses. We now get locked up for our thoughts??? It is all about the numbers...the The Lib-turds will agree to that.

 

[Deserteagle]

On the contrary it was started out to point out the rise of excessive police force and brutality against people not deserving it. When police say ******* your constitutional rights there is a serious concern too all of us.

What if you had an argument with your bank about a deposit you made and they clearly made the error and you said a few choice expletives and asked to talk to a manager and they hung up and called the police saying you threatened to beat that person up, clearly a lie, next thing you know 12 members of SWAT show up at your house sending tear gas and flash grenades through the windows, knock your door off it's hinges and enter then rifle butt your son/daughter in the face and drag you out kicking and screaming not knowing what the hell is going on. Your rights and those of your family were just violated with extreme prejudice. Would you still say the police were just doing there job? I don't think so Tim.

Not sure if you noticed, but you replied to my one quote 2 times

 

[walt629]

i agree, but to try to play the guy as having no fault in the situation and claiming that it only happened b/c he's a gun owner and it's all about obama taking over is completely obsurd.

Let me jump in from the sidelines here and ask this; Do you think the police action would have been the same if he had told the hotline that he had a bottle of pills and was going to take them? I don't think so. The amount of active force applied to this situation was a direct response to the fact he claimed to have guns.

You don't send a SWAT team to respond to a "suicidal man with a bottle of pills". If you step back and look at this from an objective point of view you can see the over reaction was only due to the fact there was mention of a gun. That fact alone should cause concern for every gun owner.

 

[walt629]

Under those situations I have to go with the cops based on the info they had. More so when you look at the number of Vets who have
snapped lately. They may even have done him more good then bad. A 72hour hold can be a good thing sometimes and may have gotten him
some needed help..

I agree with some of what you say. The 72 hour 'suicide watch' period would be a good thing. But you need to read the rest of the story.

Not only was this man injured during the arrest and hauled away without the opportunity to have his legal residence secured by someone he trusts, but his home was literally torn apart by the police in his absence. His dog was taken to a pound, not of his choosing, his home turned upside down, his property destroyed. All for NO good reason.

To boil it down, his personal liberties were trampled without due process. And the issue was amplified by the state when it was declared the private citizen was in possession of a firearm.

Getting help to those that ask for it is one thing. Trampling their civil liberties and the COnstitution on the way to giving the help does no one any good.

 

[bpenlandjr]

Let me jump in from the sidelines here and ask this; Do you think the police action would have been the same if he had told the hotline that he had a bottle of pills and was going to take them? I don't think so. The amount of active force applied to this situation was a direct response to the fact he claimed to have guns.

You don't send a SWAT team to respond to a "suicidal man with a bottle of pills". If you step back and look at this from an objective point of view you can see the over reaction was only due to the fact there was mention of a gun. That fact alone should cause concern for every gun owner.

Think about what you are saying here: You are saying the police over reacted because of the mention of a gun, and if the guy had pills then the reaction would have been milder. Well.....DUH! Someone who is suicidal, delusional, and depressed with a gun is a threat to others, not just himself. Same guy and situation with pills, he is oly a danger to himself, so of course the swat team won't come storming in. The cops are right to try to protect lives (including this guy's). This does not encroach on any rights or endanger our 2nd Amendment rights. Get over it already!

 

[kelcarry]

I don't see the problem here. He stated he was depressed, they knew he had guns. He called the suicidal hotline on accident then shut off the phone. They called several times he said so they probably thought he killed himself or was hurting others. They didn't have to tear the place to pieces but I think they did the right thing by going there in case he was actually crazy.

I tend to go along with your thinking in its entirety. Trouble is this country has rapidly become an asylum run by its inmates and has taken an ominous direction. I am convinced that if the moslem turd does not win in Nov, he and his friends will instigate a class/race war in this country and the Occupy was their "test". Whether this leads to brownshirts, germany 1930, it is already Goebbels-led in propoganda with a press that is almost totally subservient to the turd and his minions. What do you think gun control is all about?--Hitler did it and Stalin did it--unarm the populace and they are nothing. This swat-led overkill and destruction at this guy's home is gestapo in action and I hope he sues and wins a heck of a lot from government. Unfortunately, we are getting to the point where the judiciary is under the thumb of the turd and his minions and once he declares congress "irrelevant" he will be the dictator he wants to be.

 

[walt629]

Think about what you are saying here: You are saying the police over reacted because of the mention of a gun, and if the guy had pills then the reaction would have been milder. Well.....DUH! Someone who is suicidal, delusional, and depressed with a gun is a threat to others, not just himself. Same guy and situation with pills, he is oly a danger to himself, so of course the swat team won't come storming in. The cops are right to try to protect lives (including this guy's). This does not encroach on any rights or endanger our 2nd Amendment rights. Get over it already!

Well, you've pretty well shored up my argument. The police reaction to the situation was influenced by the presence of the gun. And in the process his rights were trampled because the police amplified their reaction to the threat assessment. Like I said, the reaction was more because of the presence of the gun and the subsequent destruction of personal property was also a result of the threat of the citizen having more weapons in the home. The report even stated that they were looking for explosives.

And NO! I won't get over it. As long as legal gun owners are singled out and prosecuted / persecuted differently that non-gun owning citizens, it is discrimination and more than likely a violation of that citizens 2A rights.

And if you want to argue the issues from your stand point then every bottle wielding suicidal citizen is not getting the level of police involvement that they should, simply because they do not own a gun.

 

[MYGLOCK]

I work for the Department of the Army. We have mandatory annual anti-suicide training because in the last eight years the suicide rate among returning veterans both active and discharged has reached a dramatic and alarming increase. I'm pleased that there was a response but I feel the response was overboard. I’m no expert but this was not the help this veteran needed. At least he is alive and I hope he recovers his losses and continues to seek the right help.