Peggy Reist
New member
This was posted on Facebook today. Wasn't quite sure what to make of it.
Do you still conceal carry into posted "No Carry" businesses?
- Thread starter HappeScrapn
- Start date
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CapGun
Active member
If the sign does not carry the weight of law for whatever reason then why not!?
I understand not doing business with a gun free establishment but if I am out and part on my errands or if my night out at the movies will be ruined by a sign I just noticed then I will not obey the sign. That is only as long as I am not breaking a law.
On the other hand if I know about the establishment being a posted "victim" zone then I will avoid it if there is another alternative.
If no other alternative then it would be up to me how much of an inconvenience I want to go through.
I do understand principle but at the same time I don't want to feel that an anti gun establishment made my decision.
I understand not doing business with a gun free establishment but if I am out and part on my errands or if my night out at the movies will be ruined by a sign I just noticed then I will not obey the sign. That is only as long as I am not breaking a law.
On the other hand if I know about the establishment being a posted "victim" zone then I will avoid it if there is another alternative.
If no other alternative then it would be up to me how much of an inconvenience I want to go through.
I do understand principle but at the same time I don't want to feel that an anti gun establishment made my decision.
sxedrummer
New member
I must have big brass ones. :secret:
Just read the statutes as they currently stand to double check. Thanks for the reference, haven't previously had a chance to read the new statutes (haven't taught a class since the change either) yet.
Ghost Rider
New member
I live in Idaho, no gun signs here carry no weight of law, and the only place I have ever seen a no gun sign was at a salvation army store. So far I havn`t seen any other no gun signs any were around here.
If it makes you feel better to violate the law so that you have this protection--have at it. In a "what if" situation, this feel good feeling with soon turn to legal and civil trouble big time---say you CC where you are not allowed and upon leaving said location you are in a bad situation requiring use of your firearm and the BG is killed or seriously injured. Upon police review, it is revealed that there is only one way you could have had that firearm on you and it was an illegal way. Want to count up the time you will now spend defending your misdemeanor/criminal case or think about what is left of your possesions once you are sued up the kazoo?
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Bikenut
Guest
The following is offered as food for thought. Y'all decide for yourselves what you want to do....
While a "no guns" sign may not have the weight of a specific gun law behind it that sign can/could still serve as notice that anyone who enters while carrying does not have the property owner's permission to be there and would be trespassing. So care needs to be taken to understand not just the gun laws in your State but also to understand the trespass laws and what legally constitutes "notice" also.
Many folks believe that whether there is a sign or not they must first be asked to leave before being charged with trespass. That may or may not be the case since, at least in Michigan, the term "notified" isn't defined so being asked to leave is not in the law leaving it up to the judge/jury to decide if a person was "notified".... and a sign just might be considered to be "notification" whether the person saw it or said they didn't see it but the judge/jury decides "a reasonable person should have seen it".
Not to mention that, depending on the State's laws, a person might lose their carry permit under different parts of the permit laws if it is determined that they are not carrying responsibly.... and intentionally trespassing could be considered as not really being "responsible" by those with the power to revoke permits.
The law is sometimes a funny thing.... and it is entirely up to each of us to know and understand all aspects of all parts of the different laws in our own State and in any State that we might visit/travel through that affect us when we carry.
I am not an attorney... just offering something to think about.
Trespass | Wex Legal Dictionary / Encyclopedia | LII / Legal Information Institute
Trespass
Trespass is defined by the act of knowingly entering another person’s property without permission. -snip-
When you get caught they will shrivel up to peanuts.
wolf_fire
New member
Personally, if I'm accompanying someone and see a sign, I will ignore it and walk in since I have no plan on purchasing anything.
If I was there to buy something and saw the sign, I would do as others have said: seek a manager, explain how much of a sale they lost and how many more they will lose until they change their policy and hand them this: http://snoballs.files.wordpress.com/2010/07/no-guns-no-money-2.jpg
If I was there to buy something and saw the sign, I would do as others have said: seek a manager, explain how much of a sale they lost and how many more they will lose until they change their policy and hand them this: http://snoballs.files.wordpress.com/2010/07/no-guns-no-money-2.jpg
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ezkl2230
Guest
Which means that 47 were not.
Steon
NRA Member & Freemason
So? 1/6 isn't bad. And to be honest, that is just from the CONFIRMED records. There were quite possibly more.
Also, of the 44 US Presidents, 14 were Freemasons, (or 1/3):
George Washington, James Monroe, Andrew Jackson, James Polk, James Buchanan, Andrew Johnson, James Garfield, William McKinley, Theodore Roosevelt, Howard Taft, Warren Harding, Franklin Roosevelt, Harry Truman, Gerald Ford
topgun47
New member
Maybe a crazy question but I wanted to hear what some of you think and/or do about this. Do any of you still carry into a business that has a "No Handguns" sign posted?
No one on this website knowingly breaks the law.
And even if they did, they shouldn't be posting it here for all to see.
No one on this website knowingly breaks the law.
And even if they did, they shouldn't be posting it here for all to see.
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Bikenut
Guest
Anyone who enters a business that they know has a no guns rule/policy likely IS breaking the law. Not a specific gun law but they could be breaking the trespass law...
Trespass | Wex Legal Dictionary / Encyclopedia | LII / Legal Information Institute
Trespass
Trespass is defined by the act of knowingly entering another person’s property without permission. -snip-
And since trespass is against the law (the trespass law) in many States then a person who carries a gun into a business they know has a no guns rule/policy does not have the owner's permission to be there and is guilty of trespass... which is against the law. Just knowing and walking in anyway is the act of trespass.... being asked to leave is getting caught in the act of trespassing. Check the trespass laws in your own State to find out what constitutes being "notified" that guns are not allowed since in some States the mere presence of no guns sign and/or a list of prohibited conduct with carrying guns on it as one of the prohibited conducts could legally be "notice" and, at least in Michigan, there is no legal requirement to be "asked to leave" before being arrested for trespass.
Edited to add....
And while the penalties for trespass might not be too bad please consider that those in charge of issuing and revoking carry permits frown on those who act irresponsibly and get in trouble while carrying and could decide to revoke your permit if you get in trouble for trespass.
CapGun
Active member
That is a very helpful cogent "heads-up" Thank you. Having said that, we all take responsibility for our actions. Ignorance is, as they say, no excuse but.....Sign? What sign? I saw no stinking sign!
apvbguy
New member
Here in FLA the signs have no backing of the law so I ignore those signs, in places that I travel to like TX or NC where the signs do have the backing of law, I respect the law.
apvbguy
New member
Here in FLA you are not breaking any laws until you are requested to remove yourself. failure do do so after a request could result in an arrest.
Birdman253
New member
The difference is that liquor stores by law may sell only for off premises consumption. The law classes unlicensed carry as a misdemeanor. In a business that sells alcohol, with the "Unlicensed" sign posted, the unlicensed carry of a firearm is elevated to a felony, just as is stated on the sign.
It is not illegal to carry in a business in Texas that sells alcohol, as long as they don't derive more than 51% of their revenue from alcohol. If you start to watch, convenience stores, grocery stores, Wal-Mart, restaurants, and many other establishments have the "blue" sign posted. This means that they have a license from TABC to sell alcohol, but don't meet the 51% threshold. If they ever reach that point, they have to post the "red" sign that prohibits weapons.
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