Do you still conceal carry into posted "No Carry" businesses?
- Thread starter HappeScrapn
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Axeanda45
Banned
It only proves your TOTAL ignorance of what rights are.... You are COMPLETELY ignoring the FACT that if your exercising your "Rights" causes harm to someone, then you NO LONGER ARE USING THAT RIGHT, YOU ARE ABUSING IT (infringing on others)
Axeanda45
Banned
*sigh*
My goodness, do I have to hold your hand as I explain rights to you???????
YOUR example is NOT RELEVANT (breaking in as I am not there) as IT WOULD BE DOING HARM......................... What is so freaking hard about that to understand????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
My god you people have no freaking clue do you?
An inert object can DO YOU NO HARM, so no "Infringement" of anyones RIGHTS.....
Axeanda45
Banned
BULLCRAP.....
I am going and getting what I NEED at the most logical place TO ME to get it......... WE, "as a group" as you put it, is entire 100% bullcrap... I dont represent you, and YOU very clearly do NOT represent me....
Firefighterchen
OC for Tactical Advantage
Do you really think you have to be physically harmed before its considered an infringement?
Sent from my HTCONE using USA Carry mobile app
Axeanda45
Banned
RESPECT THE PROPERTY OWNER????????
What about them respecting us FIRST?????? How DARE they presume we arent worthy of carrying OUR OWN PROPERTY safely in a holster or in our pocket??? How DARE they render us virtually defenseless just because THEY ARE SCARED of something?
Firefighterchen
OC for Tactical Advantage
Demands respect first while on someone else's property...
Thinks it's only fear that drives property requirements...
Wrong on both points.
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How dare they? Err..... They bought it, with their own money! And they don't want to make your money! Nobody forced you to go in and spend your money! You going into their premise is at will, so if you don't agree with their policy you are more than welcome to leave. Don't insert yourself in their unwanted and complaint about being treated as such!!!!!
Axeanda45
Banned
If they didnt want the PUBLIC then they are more than welcome to make it a private club like Sams or Costco.... Otherwise quit yer damn bitchin about the public coming in after you invited them...
Axeanda45
Banned
If they didnt want the public, WHY DID THEY INVITE THEM???? Just another little tidbit you and yours keep ignoring...
B
Bikenut
Guest
And you continue to ignore that "open to the public" is merely an invitation the property owner extends to individual members of the public that agree to abide by the rules the property owner has attached as conditions to qualify for being invited. Those individual members of the public who do not agree to abide by the property owner's rules are not invited.
Invited equals having the owner's permission to be there .... not invited due to refusal to abide by the rules that are conditions of the invitation equals not having the owner's permission to be there and....
Trespass Law & Legal Definition
Trespass Law & Legal Definition
Trespass is entering another person's property without permission of the owner or legal authority. -snip-
It really is that simple....although there are different laws that govern being notified and signage and penalties from State to State.
BluesStringer
Les Brers
A loaded handgun is decidedly not "inert." It is "inanimate," but not inert, unless of course, it's loaded only with empty shell casings. Is that what you mean to imply, Axe? Not that it makes or "wins" your point for you, but here's a chance to at least make yourself clearly understood on a rather ridiculous assertion as it stands right now.
On this, we agree 100%. I am not being sarcastic or taking a secretive poke at Axe. I, too, think all this monolithic "we" stuff never, ever works. "We" only become "we" when we voluntarily choose to unite and/or organize around a premise, any premise, not just limited to gun issue premises. Review of almost any random thread on this forum would prove in a heartbeat that there is no united "we" about gun issues, from OC vs. CC to mandated training vs. no mandated training to caliber "wars" to "reasonable, common sense" gun control vs. shall not be infringed, the "we" that "we" like to think "we're" a part of is wholly a myth.
Blues
Firefighterchen
OC for Tactical Advantage
Because the public is the money pot. The public that wants my service also has no problems with following my requirements on my property. They are not required to use my services, so they are welcome to go elsewhere. Fortunately, those in public have no problem with my requirements, and those that do still don't have a backbone to go elsewhere since my services are just that good.
Btw, we aren't debating on just the no gun requirement, but a no (insert anything or anyone) I don't want on my property.
Sent from my HTCONE using USA Carry mobile app
It's an open invitation as long as you abide by the terms of invitation. The sign that says no firearms allowed on premise is a condition of invitation. If you don't agree, don't go in. It's a nice way of saying you are not invited if you have a firearm on you. A public place can't discriminate against certain protected classes, and must offer accessibility for the disabled. In many states there are no laws forbidding business owners to set firearm rules on premise, and some states actually allow businesses to legally opt out. You have the right to bear arm, but just not on my property. Do it at your own house, or your own business. This should be an issue decided by the businesses and not the government.
Costco may not be public due to membership status, but you can be refused a membership if you do not abide by their member rules.
whodat2710
New member
To go along with that, don't I have the right to walk around with no shirt or shoes? I just came from the pool, and I want to go in to your business. Can I just ignore the "No Shirt, No Shoes, No Service" sign?
BluesStringer
Les Brers
Sure, as long as you sneak your near-naked self inside by covering it up with a shirt and shoes! LOL
telpinaro
New member
Not that I'm going to go and read all of this again... (We all know each other's views on this by now, right? How many times have we done this? :laugh
But...
I'd find someone lying to me in order to gain access to my property pretty darn threatening. Yeah I'd be harmed, whether I knew it or not.
Picture the break in while on vacation again (did see that one). Except instead of stealing stuff, he just walked around and looked at everything, then left. Didn't break anything, didn't move anything. He even locks the door behind him when he leaves! You never knew he was there. You weren't hurt at all, right?
Or how about someone who says he's from the electric company? Comes in, checks the store's fuses and leaves. If he's lying, are you hurt? Maybe, maybe not. Maybe he was casing the place and wants to come back and rob it later. Heck, maybe that's what a random guy with a gun wants to do. Maybe he just enjoys being somewhere he's not supposed to be. I don't know the person myself, so I can't know.
In any case, if I found out I'd been lied to so someone could come on my property, I'd be scared and threatened. Don't know if the guy is harmless or not. I can't assume he is, or I might wind up in a very bad situation. If I never know about it, I either have some untrustworthy friends/customers (cause they're lying to me) or I'm REALLY screwed 'cause now I'm in for violence or theft and don't know it. I suppose the argument could be made that if a business owner doesn't trust his customers, why shouldn't we lie to him? Heck, maybe it's for his own good. I guess I just like to think we're better than that; good people don't lie or sneak in to places or do things that cause people not to trust us--no segue into open carry intended, that doesn't make us untrustworthy whether people know it or not--though why not get all the hot topics going at once? (No, Axe, I'm not calling you a bad person! I think you're a good person who strongly disagrees with me... and several other people.)
That and (again) the idiotic no gun sign invites the UNARMED public specifically. Armed public is not invited. And (again) why shop where someone doesn't trust or respect you?
But...
I'd find someone lying to me in order to gain access to my property pretty darn threatening. Yeah I'd be harmed, whether I knew it or not.
Picture the break in while on vacation again (did see that one). Except instead of stealing stuff, he just walked around and looked at everything, then left. Didn't break anything, didn't move anything. He even locks the door behind him when he leaves! You never knew he was there. You weren't hurt at all, right?
Or how about someone who says he's from the electric company? Comes in, checks the store's fuses and leaves. If he's lying, are you hurt? Maybe, maybe not. Maybe he was casing the place and wants to come back and rob it later. Heck, maybe that's what a random guy with a gun wants to do. Maybe he just enjoys being somewhere he's not supposed to be. I don't know the person myself, so I can't know.
In any case, if I found out I'd been lied to so someone could come on my property, I'd be scared and threatened. Don't know if the guy is harmless or not. I can't assume he is, or I might wind up in a very bad situation. If I never know about it, I either have some untrustworthy friends/customers (cause they're lying to me) or I'm REALLY screwed 'cause now I'm in for violence or theft and don't know it. I suppose the argument could be made that if a business owner doesn't trust his customers, why shouldn't we lie to him? Heck, maybe it's for his own good. I guess I just like to think we're better than that; good people don't lie or sneak in to places or do things that cause people not to trust us--no segue into open carry intended, that doesn't make us untrustworthy whether people know it or not--though why not get all the hot topics going at once? (No, Axe, I'm not calling you a bad person! I think you're a good person who strongly disagrees with me... and several other people.)
That and (again) the idiotic no gun sign invites the UNARMED public specifically. Armed public is not invited. And (again) why shop where someone doesn't trust or respect you?
Firefighterchen
OC for Tactical Advantage
What about backpacks? I know of a few stores that don't allow backpacks.
How about food? I know a few places that dont allow outside food or drinks, or any food or drinks inside.
BUT FOOD AND DRINKS AND BACKPACKS AREN'T HURTING ANYBODY RIGHT?
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How about food? I know a few places that dont allow outside food or drinks, or any food or drinks inside.
BUT FOOD AND DRINKS AND BACKPACKS AREN'T HURTING ANYBODY RIGHT?
Sent from my HTCONE using USA Carry mobile app
I suppose the chief argument against all this would be bearing arms is a constitutionally protected while all the other activities are not.
My take on it is this, the constitution prevent the government from infringing on your right, but does not prevent the individual from doing so.
Speech can be restricted by private entities and in private forums. You have no expectation to privacy when you are in public. A private security guard can search you prior to letting you gain entrance to a private property. Why can't a private property owner prohibit another private citizen from bringing a firearm into their premise?
My take on it is this, the constitution prevent the government from infringing on your right, but does not prevent the individual from doing so.
Speech can be restricted by private entities and in private forums. You have no expectation to privacy when you are in public. A private security guard can search you prior to letting you gain entrance to a private property. Why can't a private property owner prohibit another private citizen from bringing a firearm into their premise?
Rhino
New member
You infringe on someone else's right to control their property. Whether they know about it or not makes no difference whatsoever. Taking things onto an owners property that they have forbidden does harm to their rights too, but apparently you have no freaking clue about that because the only rights you care about are your own. Do we have to hold your hand to explain rights to you? An inert object most certainly can do me harm. Are you trying to say a gun can't harm anyone?
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Suppose they don't break in while you're on vacation. Suppose a neighbor drives a car on your lawn where you never allow cars because they might damage your lawn, which your neighbor is well aware of. If he didn't damage your lawn and you didn't know about it because you were on vacation, did he violate your property rights? His car is after all an inert object. The answer is yes of course. You set a limit on access to your property and he knowingly violated it. Just because you don't know about it doesn't make him innocent of the violation, and it's ridiculous to suggest it does. I'm not the one who doesn't have a clue here, and I didn't twist anything you said, as you claimed earlier. If you continue to address me in such a manner, I can start ridiculing the crap out of you too, because God knows you're leaving the door wide open for it. Is that what you want? Or would you like to act like a civil human being and calm down?
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