Dissarmed by officer upon traffic stop ? Wilson NC. WTF ?

Yeah, that sounds like a pretty reasonable scenario to me. But as I'm sure you know, NC is a "must notify" state, so the burden is on the permit holder to initiate the conversation if he is carrying at the time!

BTW as I learned when I renewed my DL, my DL # and my CC permit no longer have matching #s. I renewed my CC in July, and the new permit had the same # as the original. Then I renewed my DL in December, and my new DL has a different #

I had to go look at my permit but my DL and CC permit do not have matching numbers. That would just be entirely too awesome to be honest.

When I took my class, the instructor said that when you are pulled over, the officer will have already run the tags, and, assuming you are the only one listed, it will flag you as being a CC permit holder. He further said to offer the information immediately - do not wait to be asked - and to keep your hands on the steering wheel until told to do otherwise, whether you are in possession of the firearm or not. He further said that if it is at night, for us to turn on inside light and then put our hands on the steering wheel. I would rather be upfront (carrying or not) than risk any unfortunate consequences. Having said that, I rarely am without my firearm(s).
 
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I just hate coming late to a thread only to find that the OP wasn't confident enough in their original post to leave the post up. It's a forum - it's possible that people aren't going to agree with you & it sure as heck is likely that some may outright attack you.

Have the cajones to respond to your detractors...or not, but leave your original post alone.


Lesson learned people, if you see a post so bad it will quickly be deleted.....

Quote it.........

Geez...right?
 
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I just hate coming late to a thread only to find that the OP wasn't confident enough in their original post to leave the post up. It's a forum - it's possible that people aren't going to agree with you & it sure as heck is likely that some may outright attack you.

Have the cajones to respond to your detractors...or not, but leave your original post alone.

Geez...right?

Reference post #45, it is not a copy and paste of my original post but a rethink / rewrite for a better understanding
 
The issue of the CCW Permit being tied to registered owner of the vehicle?

This is a proposition, set forth as an explanation for the occurrence of some specified group of phenomena, either asserted merely as a provisional conjecture to guide investigation or to be accepted as highly probable in the light of established facts

It's an early (Hypothetical) Saturday morning there is knock at my door, it’s my neighbor he says he was working on his car and accidentally broke the johnson rod that attaches the armature sprocket to the carburetor boot, He asks if could give him ride to the parts store to get a new wrench lock, I tell him I’m busy and cant drive him but he is welcome to take my car and I toss him the keys,

Somewhere along the way he is cut off by an inattentive driver,,, inattentive anonymous driver calls 911 and reports my vehicle license plate # for reckless driving, cop is dispatched to investigate,,, whatever,,, Officer locates my car,,, runs the plate and there is a CCW indicator tied to the registered owner, except the driver is not the registered owner and is not CCW, but the cop doesn’t know this at that time, So when the cop pulls, then approaches the car is he expecting to be informed of a weapon on board? and when he is not, Does he become suspicious? Does he yank my neighbor out of my car and toss him to the ground? Does he search him for weapons? My neighbor is all freaked out now and wonders what is happening to him, He has no idea that I CCW, I have not shared that information with him, The cop doesn’t know if he is really my neighbor? or if he is being deceptive and is really some thief who just stole my car and may actually have a weapon on him?

Same thought, Cop gets a call, Cop runs the plate, except this time there is no an indication of a CCW attached to the registered owner,,, But now it’s me driving my neighbor’s car and I am not the registered owner, I Am however CCW and do have a weapon in my possession. Because there is no indicator of CCW can the cop approach the car without expectation of a weapon on board? When “I inform him” of my CCW what happens then? Can he “assume” that I am being truthful and will more likely than not continue to be truthful with him or not?

I see no issue with having my CCW attached to my Driver License, I do see a problem with it attached to the registered owner or the license plate / car itself, cars don't shoot cops. I think the process/procedure should be something like Cop should ask for license and registration first, run it then if there is a CCW tied to the drivers license / operator of the vehicle, he can then take any precautions he feels necessary and when he returns to the driver he should then expect to be informed of the CCW and then whether he is or is not informed of the CCW proceeds from there, The indicator should be attached to the operator and not to the vehicle, and if you dont have a license well then thats another issue, Why not just provide CCW as an endorsement on the license rather than a second document, and for those who don’t drive who are ccw, just issue the standard permit. NC is a little behind the times with the paper permit, My Ct permit is a photo ID pemit just like my DL

Lots of wholes in this piece of cheese, Whether or not the owner of the vehicle is CCW is really irrelevant and really not very important, it provides no useful information or indication of who is in the car and whether or not there are any weapons in the car, what is relevant and really important is whether or not the driver, or any passengers for that matter are CCW, obvious by how some other states do it, Registered owner my not be the driver… And If the procedure is to approach to Every Car assuming weapons why the CCW indicator on the car, I think we would all agree that the laws of the states need to be standardized for both safety and simplicity
 
I see no issue with having my CCW attached to my Driver License, I do see a problem with it attached to the registered owner or the license plate / car itself, cars don't shoot cops.

Does it really make a difference? Police officer calls in a license plate number. Gets the registered owner's name and address. Then he uses the registered owner's name and address that he just obtained to get the driver's license number. Then uses the driver's license number to get CCW/CPL status. None of the info, of course, provides any indication of who is actually driving the vehicle.
 
So, if I called 911 and said that my next door neighbor BuddhaKat came over to my yard and threatened me with a gun because my dog crapped in his yard and then returned to his house with the gun, it would be perfectly acceptable for police to search your home looking for the gun I said you possessed and threatened me with? And if you said no, then my call would be sufficient probable cause for a judge to issue a search warrant for your house, right? Especially if they looked you up and saw you had a concealed weapons permit lending more credibility that you actually owned a gun? And if they found a gun in your house, then what?

Or what if I call 911 and say you threatened me with a gun from your vehicle due to road rage and the police follow you to your house? Now they have probable cause to search your house when you leave the vehicle I reported and go inside, right?
Hell yeah. If I threatened you with a gun in the manner you describe I'd be breaking a long list of laws. If you would be willing to sign a complaint, it has legal standing. In fact, making a false complaint is well known to be against the law and taken quite seriously as well.

But are you trying to suggest that if you call 911 to report [me] threatening you with a gun, that the cops should first make sure you have a video or voice recording of the encounter so they have valid enough proof of a crime to start to an investigation? I fear living in such a society.
 
Hell yeah. If I threatened you with a gun in the manner you describe I'd be breaking a long list of laws. If you would be willing to sign a complaint, it has legal standing. In fact, making a false complaint is well known to be against the law and taken quite seriously as well.

But are you trying to suggest that if you call 911 to report [me] threatening you with a gun, that the cops should first make sure you have a video or voice recording of the encounter so they have valid enough proof of a crime to start to an investigation? I fear living in such a society.

No, what I am suggesting is that you would be OK with the same standard of proof when I called the police and said you threatened me with a gun as if I called them and reported a road rager - that standard of proof being NOTHING other than my one single 911 call, without the police even interviewing me or obtaining a statement from me other than the 911 call. After all, that is all the proof you are suggesting is needed to stop and detain a person in a vehicle.

I call 911 and say BuddhaKat threatened me with a gun, he is in his house now. Cops go immediately to your house, detain you, and search the area of your house immediately accessible from where you could obtain a gun, all based on my single 911 call, not even having met me in person. That's OK, right? My 911 call surely provided enough reasonable suspicion to justify their actions, right?
 
Respect for human, civil, and Constitutional rights are the BASIS of public safety. By insisting that my rights be respected, I am insuring that the police do not trample the rights of many more than myself, and that increases the public safety.

But then, I'm sure you already know this, NavyLCDR. :laugh:
 
No, what I am suggesting is that you would be OK with the same standard of proof when I called the police and said you threatened me with a gun as if I called them and reported a road rager - that standard of proof being NOTHING other than my one single 911 call, without the police even interviewing me or obtaining a statement from me other than the 911 call. After all, that is all the proof you are suggesting is needed to stop and detain a person in a vehicle.

I call 911 and say BuddhaKat threatened me with a gun, he is in his house now. Cops go immediately to your house, detain you, and search the area of your house immediately accessible from where you could obtain a gun, all based on my single 911 call, not even having met me in person. That's OK, right? My 911 call surely provided enough reasonable suspicion to justify their actions, right?

The only way they can search an immediate area of the dwelling is if the suspect in UNDER ARREST. So they need probable cause to do so. They may not have probable cause with just a single 911 and through investigative process. They also cannot enter the dwelling without consent or a warrant to substantiate the PC.

PS. I like your sig line.
 
Too bad the OP deleted the post. I would have liked to have seen why he has gotten flamed so badly. I can infer from the responses that he may have acted I appropriately while armed during a road rage incident. As responsible gun owners we have a duty to ourselves and our families not to escalate potentially dangerous situations. It stinks, but things like getting cut off in traffic have to be let go.
 
I find it interesting that you think it is "1st world civility and law" to give the police force of the state the ability to detain and question citizens based upon the pure hearsay of one person making a phone call.... to me that is 3rd world police state thinking.

Worked that way for my panicky hoplophobe neighbor. :frown::butcher:
And in all honesty, your's is an example of the system working like it's supposed to, in spite of a glitch at the beginning. No harm, no foul, and you made a lot of cop friends, which is never a bad thing if you're ever taken hostage in a doughnut shop.
 
Hot Pursuit Is also way to search

As if the risk to Public Safety is sp great,Courts will uphold an emergent search and subsequint results from search..

In NJ, if I recieve report of a Gun Crime,and caller states License plate and other BOLO info,most likely Prosecutors Office always Charges the Accused w no cooberrating evidence other then 1Witness/victim and w a 92% conviction rate its plead out, ive always had issue w our 2C code in NJ as a Cop.. Ive seen Jammed up Cops be accused of Sex Assaults loae it all only to get a reversal of dismissed w Predjudice by Ct of Appeals..

Now that im retired, I own a Bail Bond Agency in 2009 an Explorer from my old Dept was accused of Sex Assault, Initially the Det Sgt was on Vacay but his Det charged him w 1st deg Agg Sex Assault ( penetration against will) and the Lazy Det nvr asked vic/witness if she said NO, Stop or if she ever felt in fear of her Life, all answered no and her answer was no Id work w hin tommorow, still kid sat in Jail for 16 days, Lost $10k to us, and he had a Spec Officers Position at Shore that Summer and Obvioysly they told him reapply nxt season and he hasnt been invited back.. Once Sup returned, he expidited to Grand Jury and it was no billed and dropped but arrest is still on file as it costs $2500 to have expunged.. If im him id aue w a condition of dropping if Hired full time, as if something like that occurs and u get a ***** Bird Lazy Officer and your Poor, well you will screwed.. If the Det Sgt wasnt that Cop who cared, this could have went on for 2 years.. NJ is Guilt and prove innocent here as you have no defense at a Grand Jury hearing, sometimes the Direct Present ( No Charges or Green Shert, ) the Prosecutor presents hia veraion of events to a closed room secret Jury of 23 Paneled Members that sit Quarterly, well they see same guys presenting cases they Bond and he takes them wherever he wiahes to go on any case, only takes 12 of em to INDICT on whatever sticks.. In Phila Pa, its opposite as the State has a higher Burden of Proof atvall Levels and They have diamissals and juries dont believe Officers juat cauae he said it was true...

In 2000 my bro had an issue, while off Duty, he wouldnt turn in hia partner as he too had slight involvement, anyhow they were to have said to have violated Civil rights of an AA Women, tape showed Diff, and dismissed, that wasnt all, They then were to have bren stopping all AA, It too was False, MV Stops were like 30% of any given month.

NJ STate police were undr seige for profiling issues at same time, They Direct presented a case, they lost Trial, But brought up that the NJ Pres of the NAACP sat on Same panel that indicted them, The Lawyer thought surely the Trial Judge wld dismiss, he demanded to know how they knew and they would t tell him as 2Sheriff Off thought that was wrong, Anyway he sealed his opinion for appeal later, well they lost trial but raised so many idsues on appeal that should have tossed case,

Appeals Ct pf NJ didnt address eithr and sentencing was initially reduced, at month 31 Both were immidiately Released w all Charges diamissed on the Fact NJ Supreme Ct stated, Vote was 12-11 to indict, One Grand Juror askwd all racially charged Questions, As the Lead Inv told her no there wasnt any Biased incident as had evidence led to that he would have Looked into it as both werent members of KKK, no epithats were used etc etc, anyhow She says, 2 White Officers Locking up a Disproprtianlly amt of AA men isnt a Racist Sign to you...

I would love to know the sealed opinion of Trial Judge, my brother lost his career, 31mths of Freedom, his wife, His home, and he wasnt doung profiling as at 1am doing 30mph ovr Speed Limit in opposite Direction I cldnt tell if a Tranny Martian was operating a vehicle later consented to search had 1kilo heroin, Mari Cash and othr Drugs, Once they were indicted that case was tossed..

My brother got his Job Back, After sitting in a Cell for 2.5 yrs he wasnt mt a Cop that i saw definition of in Dictionary, If my fam had a crime u want him responding, He cared about Nothing, he drank and Drank and ate his Gun his partner went to anothr Dept whooped his Wife arse and loat hia Badge, But my point is All States are Diff, some actually believw it should be burden of the Accuser to prove Aa Charged beyond a reasonable Doubt.

Sorry for typos,Bored at Jail awaiting 2post a bail bond, and used Keybpad on I Phone...
 
And in all honesty, your's is an example of the system working like it's supposed to, in spite of a glitch at the beginning. No harm, no foul, and you made a lot of cop friends, which is never a bad thing if you're ever taken hostage in a doughnut shop.

A) If I had never been disarmed nor my particulars used to generate a computer record of the incident, then the system would have worked as it's supposed to.

B) I don't count those cops as my friends, nor, I believe, do they count me as theirs.

C) I'll keep that in mind if I'm ever in a doughnut shop. (Read: never)

In the future, if I'm ever involved in something similar, it'll be "I'll just take that sidearm off of you--" "No, officer, you will not."
 
CathyInBlue:302730 said:
And in all honesty, your's is an example of the system working like it's supposed to, in spite of a glitch at the beginning. No harm, no foul, and you made a lot of cop friends, which is never a bad thing if you're ever taken hostage in a doughnut shop.

A) If I had never been disarmed nor my particulars used to generate a computer record of the incident, then the system would have worked as it's supposed to.

B) I don't count those cops as my friends, nor, I believe, do they count me as theirs.

C) I'll keep that in mind if I'm ever in a doughnut shop. (Read: never)

In the future, if I'm ever involved in something similar, it'll be "I'll just take that sidearm off of you--" "No, officer, you will not."

In regards to that last comment, please please please tell us how that went for you if it does happen.
 
Considering even my lawyer confirms that there is no legal authority in the state of Indiana for a police officer to disarm a LTCH carrier without at least RAS, I would think it would go quite well.
 

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