Concealed Carry or Open Carry? Where do you stand?

[whodat2710]

One thing that I have yet to see brought up in either forum (CC or OC) when this question comes up is the fact that some people have no choice. Look at the number of states that give you no option. I would love to see a federal law doing away with permission slips, capacity limits, weapon style limits, cosmetic illegalities etc. Until there is the term "United" doesn't really apply to the states.
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Right now I have "dual citizenship" by being stationed in VA, but owning a home in SC. For now there is no OC in SC, if you want to defend yourself you must obtain a permission slip. So while I have a SERPA holster for my 15rd pistol and have no problem OC'ing here in VA, I don't make a habit of it. Why? We react as we train. Since I am not allowed to OC in SC, and will be retiring there, I have no option but to CC. In an adrenaline charged SHTF moment, we resort to instinct and ingrained training. I can draw my CC as fast as you can draw your OC. I don't want to have to remember where I happen to be carrying at the moment of truth.
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My state and federal representatives all know my feelings on returning our rights, and I call them to weigh in on each new piece of legislation. WHEN they eventually come around, I WILL change my method of carry.

 

[Treo]

I’ve said this before but I have nothing against open carry I’m just not going to change the way I dress to accommodate it.

About the only time I open carry is when it gets hotter than I expected and I remove my cover garment but I am glad that Colorado allows that option.

As for the deterrent V the “element of surprise” debate either way since we carry for defense we will almost always be reacting to a threat which means that any “element of surprise” will be all theirs. As for deterrent in the times that I’ve open carried that I am aware of I’ve only ever had one guy even notice that I was armed.

 

[Firefighterchen]

I can draw my CC as fast as you can draw your OC.

I just have one question on this specific line. I have watched numerous YouTube videos on this exact same claim...but no one has ever produced as fast or faster times, close maybe, but not as fast or faster. There is also that second hand that must be used to get a time anywhere near an open carry draw.

So my question, is it really as fast? Can you produce those results with one hand?

I like the rest of your post though, brought good points to the thread.

 

[dogshawred]

I guess you guys just don't understand it.
Carrying concealed is not the element of surprise.... It's called being behind the curve.

A very profound comparison, I LIKE.

 

[snatale42]

I do both. No question OC is much kore comfortable. Anybody in an OC state should on occasion, its nice.

Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk 2

 

[Pir8fan]

I'm squarely in the "concealed" camp. I don't want anyone to know I carry. I do believe, however, that there really should be no debate. In places where OC is allowed, we should all carry in the manner we feel most comfortable. Afterall, we are all on the same team as far as carrying our firearms. How we carry shouldn't be an issue.

 

[BluesStringer]

As you know, Blues, the "element of surprise" is a big deal to some. Some people clearly put all of their self defense eggs in the one basket of "element of surprise". So, I would like to ask you a question, based upon your experience as an armored truck guard. If the "element of surprise" is so superior tactically, then why don't the armored truck companies use it?

Well, I'd be the wrong person to ask that question of, since as I said above, I consider the "element of surprise" meme to be nonsense. It's never been a part of my preference to carry concealed. As I also said before, I just want to be left alone, and that desire is mostly about cops more than someone thinking I'm a good target for victimizing. Whether concealed in regular life, or open as an armored truck courier, I've never felt deficient in my ability to deal with someone wanting to victimize me, but y'all's posts have convinced me that the deterrent effect of OC'ing has good potential to prevent me from having to react to a threat at all.

In order to keep the "element of surprise" it would seem to me that the companies in the business of moving money and valuable papers/items would do so in unmarked vehicles with drivers/guards in everyday clothes carrying concealed weapons and move the money in unmarked bags. They would completely blend in, but be well prepared to pull out their guns and yell "SURPRISE!" if they were attacked.

There aren't any branch offices in Alabama that offer them, but I do know of services offered in other states by the company I used to work for that were incognito. The overwhelming majority of their services are uniformed and openly armed, but they do have some plain-clothes and concealed carry services, like personal protection etc.

I get your point though, but I got the point before you ever made that post.

Surely the big armored truck companies have done their research, no? And yet, after doing all the research, they still come up with the "show of force" method of defense. They play their poker game with their cards facing outward. "If you want to bet against these 4 Aces and Joker I have in my hand, then you go right ahead...". What does that say about how the big companies who specialize in security feel about visible deterrence v. surprise?

Yeah, the question pretty much answers itself, doesn't it?

I don't care if people carry their firearm concealed. It's a personal choice and there are valid reasons for concealing. I conceal my firearm on occasions. But what I don't like is when someone tries to influence another person to do something based upon theories that are never proven to be true in real life.

I couldn't agree more. In fact, I'll take it a step further. Even if they could prove their theories that "surprise" is advantageous in some, most or all shooting scenarios, I can't for the life of me understand what motivates someone to try to influence others to do things their way when either/both ways are perfectly within the individual's rights to decide for themselves. Stating one's preference is fine as frog's hair. But don't try to get me to do something based on your preferences. WAY too many people don't understand the meaning of the word "freedom."

You guys that I mentioned earlier have influenced my thinking on the subject of open carry, but it was through well-reasoned, rational posts, not by brow-beating me to see things your way. That's perfectly consistent with, and respectful of, my freedom to decide for myself.

Blues

 

[chup]

Concealed, nobody needs to Know. I don't want to stand out or have attention drawn to me.

 

[PistolPaKnPoppy]

One thing that I have yet to see brought up in either forum (CC or OC) when this question comes up is the fact that some people have no choice. Look at the number of states that give you no option. I would love to see a federal law doing away with permission slips, capacity limits, weapon style limits, cosmetic illegalities etc. Until there is the term "United" doesn't really apply to the states.
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Right now I have "dual citizenship" by being stationed in VA, but owning a home in SC. For now there is no OC in SC, if you want to defend yourself you must obtain a permission slip. So while I have a SERPA holster for my 15rd pistol and have no problem OC'ing here in VA, I don't make a habit of it. Why? We react as we train. Since I am not allowed to OC in SC, and will be retiring there, I have no option but to CC. In an adrenaline charged SHTF moment, we resort to instinct and ingrained training. I can draw my CC as fast as you can draw your OC. I don't want to have to remember where I happen to be carrying at the moment of truth.
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My state and federal representatives all know my feelings on returning our rights, and I call them to weigh in on each new piece of legislation. WHEN they eventually come around, I WILL change my method of carry.

GR8 insight Chief! I couldn't agree more.

 

[PistolPaKnPoppy]

I too agree with you Chup! I don't agree however with KY's "permission slip," but that's the law in my neck of the woods.

 

[Bikenut]

In my personal opinion I prefer to carry concealed, but also I understand that open carry will be great resource in case we need it. It should be our right to decided in which way we want to legally carry. The carry permit should allow both.

I'm going to bounce off your post... the following isn't any comment on your post... I just want to address the idea that:

Sadly our society has become indoctrinated into believing that rights are things that are ............ "allowed" or "not allowed" .. and that a "permit" (permission) from the government is needed in order to be able to exercise a right. And that there are even people who the government decrees should not be "allowed" to exercise their rights.

Well... if we have an actual "right" to something then no government or law has any power to restrict or control it because it would be something that we are born owning just as we are born owning our own bodies and minds. And being "allowed" doesn't even factor into the concept of what a "right" is.

Plainly put... if we have a "right" then we own it and it is not subject to being restricted or controlled in any manner what so ever by a government because..........................if a government has the power to restrict where you can do it... when you can do it.. how you can do it.. why you can do it... and even if you will be "allowed" to do it at all then you do NOT have the "right" to do it... you only have the privilege to do it when, where, why, and how............................. you will be "allowed" to do it.

But it isn't the control of who is "allowed" that is alarming... it is the ever increasing control of who is "not allowed" that is alarming.

Think about that for a while................

 

[whodat2710]

I just have one question on this specific line. I have watched numerous YouTube videos on this exact same claim...but no one has ever produced as fast or faster times, close maybe, but not as fast or faster. There is also that second hand that must be used to get a time anywhere near an open carry draw.

So my question, is it really as fast? Can you produce those results with one hand?

I like the rest of your post though, brought good points to the thread.

Ok, to be specific, between 1.5 and 2.5 seconds. Yes, you might have to use your other hand, (not for pocket carry) but what is your other hand doing while you are drawing? I understand that I might need that other hand to fend off an attacker, but I don't wear tucked in shirts. If I have to do it one handed I can, and that's towards the 2.5 second range. I hope to have my weapon drawn before it comes to that, but you never know.

 

[influencer]

I CC. I have nothing against OC or any real basis on my preference, its just what I prefer. I have OC before, and will again.

I personally think and advantage or disadvantage to either option is greatly outweighed by a person's ability to draw and fire hitting their target. I have put in a great deal of practice preparing myself as best as I can to use my firearm as proficiently as I can. In a SHTF moment, I think my ability to put a bullet on target will make much more difference than my preferred form of carry.

 

[r1derbike]

CCer here. Not by choice, by law. The Arkansas state quaking antis can't seem to divorce ignorance and emotion for reason and logic.

Having said that, I'll reiterate Blue's comment(s) about just wanting to be left alone.

I'm all for OC, just not for me.

The low information populace feeding at the mainstream media's public slop trough, is a shame.

I don't want to come-off sounding like an arrogant jerk (OK, I do), but how may so many brainless citizens reproduce? :wink:

 

[Chris Rakes]

Open carry makes Jesus sad

Jesus told me to sell my other garment and buy a .45, i think he would be happy with me carrying

I prefer to CC but do not have a problem with those that choose to OC. As a woman I would rather have that element of surprise on my side.

let 's examine target values. there are soft targets and there are hard targets. let's assign 1 to the elder crippled woman, and 10 to the "Rock" looking marine. i probably would be about a 7 being a big older man. you being a woman you might be about 3-4. if you are OC that would bring your score up to about a 9- 10. nobody is going to mess with an armed woman. if you are CC then you still are a 3-4. remember perception is what we are after. you may feel you are a more hard target if you are CC. but perception is what counts. if you look like a soft target that is what you are. you will probably have to defend yourself then.

again i would like you to think about your reasons you CC. if you do it because you are really more comfortable carrying like that then more power to you. if you are CC because of what others will think. then i hope you just realize it

 

[whodat2710]

let 's examine target values. there are soft targets and there are hard targets. let's assign 1 to the elder crippled woman, and 10 to the "Rock" looking marine. i probably would be about a 7 being a big older man. you being a woman you might be about 3-4. if you are OC that would bring your score up to about a 9- 10. nobody is going to mess with an armed woman. if you are CC then you still are a 3-4. remember perception is what we are after. you may feel you are a more hard target if you are CC. but perception is what counts. if you look like a soft target that is what you are. you will probably have to defend yourself then.

again i would like you to think about your reasons you CC. if you do it because you are really more comfortable carrying like that then more power to you. if you are CC because of what others will think. then i hope you just realize it

One thing to factor into that equation is attitude, not just size or sex. If a randomly selected person straps on a firearm(OC), but is not confident that he or she can defend him/herself with it, or they do not seem to be comfortable with it, a randomly selected bad guy may just view this as a challenge, and an opportunity to get a gun as an aded bonus. For a woman that has the additional "target factor" of being a possible sexual assault victim (yeah, I know it's not just women but bear with me, the biggest % is) The simple confidence of having a firearm AND being comfortable with it could bump up your point value just based on attitude.
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I guess what I'm sayingis that it is not just OC, but being comfortable with it, that enhances personal safety. If you OC and your head is on a swivel and you seem nervous about it, you might be a bigger target (or at least a challenge)

 

[gejoslin]

Is your opinion that there are plenty of people out there who would figure out how to take an openly carried gun based in actual fact or is that just what you think, or are afraid, would happen? If you believe that it is actual fact please provide cites and/or links to actual incidents where open carriers get their guns taken by criminals. Please bear in mind that folks have been open carrying in just Arizona alone for decades so finding actual incidents should be very easy.

I'm not trying to be a jerk... I just would like for folks to base their opinions (and ultimately their decisions) on actual facts instead of just assuming that is what will happen.

After all.... the most prevalent myths about open carry by non LE that no one seems to be able to back up with actual factual researchable real life incidents are:

"Bad guys will target open carriers and take their guns."

and

"Bad guys will shoot the open carrier first".

Soooo... if there is any basis in real world fact for those oft heard myths I would surely like to see it. And I don't mean just one or two incidents over the past 30 years...after all... for there to be any concern of those things happening more often than lightning strikes there needs to be a plethora of incidents all over the country. Surely the main stream media would be harping on it if it were true?

And then, just to put it into perspective, perhaps comparing how often open carriers have their guns taken and/or are "shot" with how often concealed carriers get their guns taken or and/or are shot.... would be of interest?

But again... the decision as to open carry, concealed carry, open and concealed carry at the same time, or not carry at all, should always be an individual's personal decision. Even if that decision is based upon myth and not fact.

Because if we have a right to something then we decide for ourselves how, when, where, and why....

But when someone else (like the government or even public opinion) is in charge of telling us who, how, when, where, and why is "allowed"... then we don't have a right but we only have a privilege controlled by whoever has the power to do the "allowing".

Right! Now if someone anyone would tell Arkansas I would be eternally grateful!

 

[Sgt. Rock]

I do both. Whether I open carry or conceal carry depends on where I'm going. I won't criticize a person about their preferred method of carrying, so long as they're carrying.

 

[NavyLCDR]

I do both. Whether I open carry or conceal carry depends on where I'm going. I won't criticize a person about their preferred method of carrying, so long as they're carrying.

I won't even criticize their decision not to carry as long as they don't try to impose their personal restrictions on me. If they want to be a victim then let them.

 

[r1derbike]

One thing to factor into that equation is attitude, not just size or sex. If a randomly selected person straps on a firearm(OC), but is not confident that he or she can defend him/herself with it, or they do not seem to be comfortable with it, a randomly selected bad guy may just view this as a challenge, and an opportunity to get a gun as an aded bonus. For a woman that has the additional "target factor" of being a possible sexual assault victim (yeah, I know it's not just women but bear with me, the biggest % is) The simple confidence of having a firearm AND being comfortable with it could bump up your point value just based on attitude.
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I guess what I'm saying is that it is not just OC, but being comfortable with it, that enhances personal safety. If you OC and your head is on a swivel and you seem nervous about it, you might be a bigger target (or at least a challenge)

Whodat, my wife is one of your examples who does not have the mindset to shoot someone to save her life. She picked-out her own personal defense wheel gun, as she cannot rack any slides due to a crushed arm in an accident. I've taken her to the range countless times, had an instructor talk to her, and stayed out of any pushing and impatient badgering.

She is a helper, from stopping to help terrapins cross the road, to giving money to her coworkers, and she would help anyone at any time for any reason. We've been to relatives' huge outdoor range where I could let my AR stretch its legs, and she got to try all calibers and some she will not fire again. Mainly my XD-S and .45-70 rifle.

She is scared to death of firearms because of an incident with an ex-husband who held her head over the sink and stuck a .357 magnum to her head to intimidate her. It worked. She is now scarred for life, will only take a few shots with whatever she is shooting and hand it over to me to shoot.

Ironically, after getting her wheelgun, she went through a 50 count box after I limbered-up the trigger for her with a few thousand dry fire pulls. I don't know why it went downhill from there, unless the thought of the sink incident.

I worry she doesn't have the mindset to save her life, if that time ever comes.

I had a discussion with a returning vet about this very issue, and it not only applies to my wife, but soldiers in the heat of battle "freeze", and can't pull the trigger, even though they are in grave danger. He's seen it.

She doesn't carry, and uses the .38 special as a night stand sidearm. I've given her a half-dozen lady firearm sites to visit and peruse, but she only went to one for a few minutes.

She has the tool to protect herself (I wish she could have used a semi-auto), but I'm worried about the freeze factor. Sorry for the editorial, but thought it needed shared.