Concealed Carry or Open Carry? Where do you stand?

[BluesStringer]

That's why you OC in a holster with retention.
Do you carry your wallet "dangling" on the end of a string?
Come on people, common sense here, please.

Has anyone else noticed the massive amount of posters with ten or less posts who are now "posting" lately?
Just sayin.... Ya know?

Yep, I do know. I also think I know why. It happens every time the USA Carry Giveaway restarts. I'm not sure what kind of advertising reaches all the newbs, but I've noticed the trend since the Giveaways started quite awhile back. I try to be nice and patient with them as they start threads that have been covered a hundred times (per week it seems like) before, but some of them make it tough, I'll admit. I can think of several regulars around here now that had rather questionable beginnings when they first showed up. You could probably think of one or two yourself if you tried.

Blues

 

[9bymyside]

Yep

 

[NavyLCDR]

I think there are plenty of people out there who would figure out how to take your open carry. They do it with wallets, and open carry, IMO, would just put more guns in criminals hands.

So.... just to put this in perspective, according to you, "attitude" displayed by a person fueled by the knowledge that the person displaying the attitude has that they have a concealed gun is some sort of magic talisman that wards off evil:

Enter the concealed weapon and security, peace of mind and serenity. Which all by itself, without ever being pulled, has the power to keep a lot of nasties at bay. Cause attitude is everything. I've been there a few times, and know the only reason violence was avoided was because knew I had a gun handy and I had attitude.

So, I have to ask. Wouldn't the "attitude", backed by the visible and known presence of the gun capable of being used by the person with the "attitude" have much more deterrent value than the "attitude" alone?

 

[BluesStringer]

I think there are plenty of people out there who would figure out how to take your open carry. They do it with wallets, and open carry, IMO, would just put more guns in criminals hands.

So.... just to put this in perspective, according to you, "attitude" displayed by a person fueled by the knowledge that the person displaying the attitude has that they have a concealed gun is some sort of magic talisman that wards off evil:

Enter the concealed weapon and security, peace of mind and serenity. Which all by itself, without ever being pulled, has the power to keep a lot of nasties at bay. Cause attitude is everything. I've been there a few times, and know the only reason violence was avoided was because knew I had a gun handy and I had attitude.

 

[CharlesMorrison]

Yep, I do know. I also think I know why. It happens every time the USA Carry Giveaway restarts. I'm not sure what kind of advertising reaches all the newbs, but I've noticed the trend since the Giveaways started quite awhile back. I try to be nice and patient with them as they start threads that have been covered a hundred times (per week it seems like) before, but some of them make it tough, I'll admit. I can think of several regulars around here now that had rather questionable beginnings when they first showed up. You could probably think of one or two yourself if you tried.

Blues

Well played sir, well played indeed.


Sent from behind enemy lines.

 

[BluesStringer]

Well played sir, well played indeed.

Just so you know that it was intended as light-hearted ribbing, nothing more.

 

[whodat2710]

Right. Which is why the news is filled with Joe Citizens getting their guns snatched by criminals.... Oh, wait. There are no more than a couple reports per year of it happening. You see, contrary to popular belief, criminals are not stupid. They are just as afraid of getting shot as everyone else is. There is no reason to steal a gun from a Joe Citizen carrying it because 99.9% of Joe Citizens do not appear to be carrying firearms and it is much less life threatening to the criminal to steal money from them and just buy a gun - or steal guns that are left unattended.

You see more articles about cops getting their gun taken, and that is probably because the perp saw it as a last resort to stay out of the pokey.

 

[Obwana1]

I firmly believe it is our right to carry openly (obviously), but my preference is to conceal. Why? Two reasons: 1) I don't think it is anyone's business that I carry, I think it offers the element of surprise when necessary, 2) there are just too many crazy people out there and when they see someone carrying a gun they go nuts. I just don't want some unstable person attacking me or calling the police and then getting hassled because of the gun.

 

[mappow]

I carry.......in NC we have the option. NOT going to beat this dog anymore with a new thread every 3 months or so. BUTT- with that said, I'll reiterate;
I CC/OC a full sized .45 Cocked & Locked. If you're gonna have to spew lead my friends.......spew the biggest you can. NO sense in drilling holes. If forced to punch holes, I will take out large chunks until the threat is gone.
-
Be safe and always be aware and always carry. No where in the COTUS does it state your safety is a guarantee. Of course Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness is a bit out there anymore as well. YOU take the responsibility, no one else will.

 

[Firefighterchen]

I firmly believe it is our right to carry openly (obviously), but my preference is to conceal. Why? Two reasons: 1) I don't think it is anyone's business that I carry, I think it offers the element of surprise when necessary, 2) there are just too many crazy people out there and when they see someone carrying a gun they go nuts. I just don't want some unstable person attacking me or calling the police and then getting hassled because of the gun.

The first half of your first reason makes sense. The second half doesn't make sense to me, I don't know why someone would choose surprise over deterrence. Your second reason is not based in reality.

 

[lish]

I prefer to CC but do not have a problem with those that choose to OC. As a woman I would rather have that element of surprise on my side.

 

[CharlesMorrison]

I guess you guys just don't understand it.
Carrying concealed is not the element of surprise.... It's called being behind the curve.

 

[NavyLCDR]

I guess you guys just don't understand it.
Carrying concealed is not the element of surprise.... It's called being behind the curve.

K. I've got a big question here. I have looked and looked and looked and I cannot find anywhere on the Periodic Table of Elements this so-called "element of surprise" that I hear so much about:

Periodic Table of the Elements by WebElements

Can someone tell me what is so special about this "element of surprise" that it seems to be used so much?

The element of surprise is nothing more than saying, "Hey! Look at this! I have the means available to kill you with. So, if you want to go ahead and continue your attack, then face these consequences."

Meanwhile, the deterrence of the visible firearm is saying, "Hey! Look at this! I have the means available to kill you with. So, if you want to go ahead and begin your attack, then face these consequences."

It all depends on if you want to respond to an attack once it has already started, or if you want to prevent that attack from ever beginning in the first place. I have heard the term "wild west" and "gunfighter" thrown at people who open carry. And I have to ask, REALLY? Let's analyze this. The person who conceals is betting their life on the fact that once they are attacked they will be able to draw their firearm from concealment with such speed and awe that the criminal will be overcome in such a rapid manner that they do not have time to respond with a counter attack. Now, really....that seems to be the exact situation that I have seen in the movies of wild west gun fighting. Draw and shoot the bad guy before they can shoot you.

The person who open carries is betting first that the criminal will just wait five minutes for the guy with the gun to leave, or go down the street one block and just pick a target that appears easier to overcome (not carrying a gun). Then, if that would happen to fail, they now have the second advantage of not having to retrieve the gun from concealment, thus making their draw that much quicker. Finally, in most cases, it is much easier to open carry a gun with a higher capacity of higher caliber rounds than to conceal it, so many people choose smaller, less capacity guns just for the conceal-ability.

 

[BluesStringer]

K. I've got a big question here. I have looked and looked and looked and I cannot find anywhere on the Periodic Table of Elements this so-called "element of surprise" that I hear so much about:

Periodic Table of the Elements by WebElements

Can someone tell me what is so special about this "element of surprise" that it seems to be used so much?

The element of surprise is nothing more than saying, "Hey! Look at this! I have the means available to kill you with. So, if you want to go ahead and continue your attack, then face these consequences."

Meanwhile, the deterrence of the visible firearm is saying, "Hey! Look at this! I have the means available to kill you with. So, if you want to go ahead and begin your attack, then face these consequences."

It all depends on if you want to respond to an attack once it has already started, or if you want to prevent that attack from ever beginning in the first place. I have heard the term "wild west" and "gunfighter" thrown at people who open carry. And I have to ask, REALLY? Let's analyze this. The person who conceals is betting their life on the fact that once they are attacked they will be able to draw their firearm from concealment with such speed and awe that the criminal will be overcome in such a rapid manner that they do not have time to respond with a counter attack. Now, really....that seems to be the exact situation that I have seen in the movies of wild west gun fighting. Draw and shoot the bad guy before they can shoot you.

The person who open carries is betting first that the criminal will just wait five minutes for the guy with the gun to leave, or go down the street one block and just pick a target that appears easier to overcome (not carrying a gun). Then, if that would happen to fail, they now have the second advantage of not having to retrieve the gun from concealment, thus making their draw that much quicker. Finally, in most cases, it is much easier to open carry a gun with a higher capacity of higher caliber rounds than to conceal it, so many people choose smaller, less capacity guns just for the conceal-ability.

While OC has been "technically" legal here forever, it has largely been left up to the discretion of each individual LEO whether or not to hit an OC'er with a disturbing the peace charge for doing it, and such charges have been pretty regular for those willing to buck anti jurisdictions. Last Thursday that changed. Disturbing the peace has been specifically prohibited as an option for LEOs for just OC'ing. There has to be an actual crime being committed, like reckless handling, brandishing, firing in city limits etc., before an OC'er can have an involuntary LEO contact forced on them. The law is too new for me to have heard any successful test-stories yet, but the wording is unambiguous, and even my own Sheriff who opposed the new law on multiple (mostly loosening of controls) grounds told me and my wife when we went last Thursday to renew our permission slips that open carry was now 100% legal and protected as such in the new law. All of the local TV and print news stories have said as much too, so it doesn't seem like a lot of test cases are going to be necessary. It's now the well-known and unambiguous law.

So OK, my comfort zone is still CC'ing. Never even thought about the "element of surprise" or any such nonsense, really, it just boils down to I want to be left alone (especially regarding cops), and don't do anything in my life to draw attention to myself. But the more I read from you Navy, and Bikenut, and Firefighterchen (and some other articulate posters who are slipping my mind right now), the more I have to rethink the prudence of my preference. Deterrence is much more desirable than having to react after an altercation has already started. You guys make tons of sense every time you post about it, and I'm just a gnat's nose hair away from changing my carry method because of it. I still want to be left alone, and kind of have to "steel" myself against the comments, stares, maybe even contacts by cops that could well ensue from OC'ing in this area. I have literally never seen an OC'er in Alabama, and I've been here over 20 years now. It's weird too, because I worked for five years on an armored truck and OC'ed every single day I worked and never felt the least bit uncomfortable, but then, everyone expected to see me OC'ing, including cops, and it was just never an issue. But in street clothes, I'm pretty sure it's going to cause a stir on a fairly regular basis.

Oh well, I'm ramblin', but I just wanted to say thanks to you guys for such well-reasoned posts on the subject. I feel like I've learned a lot from reading y'all's posts.

Blues

 

[NavyLCDR]

It's weird too, because I worked for five years on an armored truck and OC'ed every single day I worked and never felt the least bit uncomfortable, but then, everyone expected to see me OC'ing, including cops, and it was just never an issue.

Blues

As you know, Blues, the "element of surprise" is a big deal to some. Some people clearly put all of their self defense eggs in the one basket of "element of surprise". So, I would like to ask you a question, based upon your experience as an armored truck guard. If the "element of surprise" is so superior tactically, then why don't the armored truck companies use it? In order to keep the "element of surprise" it would seem to me that the companies in the business of moving money and valuable papers/items would do so in unmarked vehicles with drivers/guards in everyday clothes carrying concealed weapons and move the money in unmarked bags. They would completely blend in, but be well prepared to pull out their guns and yell "SURPRISE!" if they were attacked.

Surely the big armored truck companies have done their research, no? And yet, after doing all the research, they still come up with the "show of force" method of defense. They play their poker game with their cards facing outward. "If you want to bet against these 4 Aces and Joker I have in my hand, then you go right ahead...". What does that say about how the big companies who specialize in security feel about visible deterrence v. surprise?

I don't care if people carry their firearm concealed. It's a personal choice and there are valid reasons for concealing. I conceal my firearm on occasions. But what I don't like is when someone tries to influence another person to do something based upon theories that are never proven to be true in real life.

 

[Ringo]

Arizona is a great state to live in if you choose to carry a gun, period. OC or CC, NO PERMITS required. When I experienced my very close brush with death a few months back, I've suffered some permanent nerve damage to my lower spine affecting my back and legs. Every doctor that has helped me recover has remarked that it was only by a miracle of God that I survived my ordeal and considering my age gave little encouragement that I would ever walk again. But, after a few months of heavy physical therapy, the Grace of God, and the help of a cane I'm back on my feet walking again. Before my ordeal, I could have stood my ground and kicked butt with the best of them, not anymore. I don't want or need any surprises today going in or coming out of any place of business/restaurant with my wife, never did, just never used to really worry much about it. To get to the point, things change. Where I used to conceal carry I now open carry, a big gun, a gun that anyone with eyes to see won't miss seeing it, and hopefully will think twice when they do. If worse comes to worse, I can also draw twice as fast carrying open as compared to concealed. We all have our reasons, now you know mine. Works for me.

~ FIGHT CRIME-SHOOT BACK ~​

 

[Bikenut]

I've posted this before in other discussions, even on other forums, and I'm sure I'll post it many more times...........
---------

About that "element of surprise" thing..........

CC and OC have the very same "element of surprise" because the "element of surprise" is really nothing more than the bad guy being "surprised" to discover his intended victim ..... has a gun.

With CC the bad guy is "surprised" to see his intended victim has a gun to defend himself with after the bad guy has already chosen his victim and the attack is already in progress and at that point seeing the gun can make the bad guy decide to stop the attack.

With OC the bad guy is "surprised" to see his intended victim has a gun to defend himself with during the bad guy's choosing a victim process and at that point seeing the gun can make the bad guy decide not to attack at all.

But either way... it was the bad guy being "surprised" to see a gun that was the actual "element of surprise".

Quite frankly... I'd prefer the bad guy be "surprised" to see my openly carried gun and decide not to attack me so I can go home and watch the 6 o'clock news coverage .... from the comfort of my easy chair..... about the CC'er who had to pull his gun and "surprise" the bad guy who attacked him.

Does OC's "element of surprise" really work? Well.... there have been thousands of folks open carrying in many States (Like Arizona) for decades! and yet accounts of folks OC'ing being attacked are rare. And you know with the anti gun media any incident involving an open carrier being attacked would be covered over and over and over yet such has not been the case in the past nor is it now.

And, in my not so humble opinion, because CC's use of the "element of surprise" is only effective after the attack has begun but OC's use of the "element of surprise" can prevent an attack from happening............. OC's use of the "element of surprise" is far superior to CC's because....

I'd much rather watch the 6 o'clock news than to BE the news.

 

[NavyLCDR]

Interesting. When the Concealed v. Open carry question is posted in the Open Carry subforum it usually has several people posting who do no more than call people who open carry childish names like "attention whore" and "Wyatt Earp" with references to the size of their genitalia. I'm just noticing that isn't happening a whole lot when the question is asked in the concealed carry forum...

 

[Javy]

In my personal opinion I prefer to carry concealed, but also I understand that open carry will be great resource in case we need it. It should be our right to decided in which way we want to legally carry. The carry permit should allow both.

 

[Firefighterchen]

In my personal opinion I prefer to carry concealed, but also I understand that open carry will be great resource in case we need it. It should be our right to decided in which way we want to legally carry. The carry permit should allow both.

The carry permit should be abolished.