colarado has ccw,but no one was carrying at the movie?

[whitefeather]

When major events occur, such as this, I often turn the AM dial from conservative talk radio to the liberal progressive channel. I attempt to understand why people take positions that are so apposed to my core beliefs. I shared, in an earlier post that progressive radio was early on blaming the Tea Party etc.

Yesterday afternoon I tuned back into "the other side" and found the conversation was about conceal carry. A caller had phoned in stating that he was licensed to carry and that he believed CCW holders could have made a difference. The woman host made light of the caller, referring to him as "Gomer". {I guess a reference to Gomer Pyle) She said that the last thing needed were other guns blazing away, killing additional movie goers and each other.

Returning from a corporate money making break,laugh the conversation returned to what could be done to mitigate this type of tragedy. The hostess believed that the future should require better security. She had no problem with a police presence. To her credit she believed that although she would like to see guns go away, "the toothpaste was out of the tube" and realistically it was not going to happen.

I found myself in disbelief that this hostess could be so dismissive of a conceal carry caller and yet want more security. She obviously new very little, if anything about how well trained numerous CCW holders are. Many have similar tactical training as most police officers. I firmly believe that a number of CCW holders on this site would do as well as LEO's in like situations.

 

[Dennis M]

Someone CCW could have distracted him. Even if he had battlefield experience, someone nearby enough to get a clear shot tapping a few shots off his helmet or armpit may have given more time for escape. Likely to end up a martyr though.

 

[K7lvo]

Just some random thoughts:

1. Why was the shooter wearing body armor? He surrendered quietly to the police. Did he consider the possibility of armed resistance from the audience?
2. If only one person in the audience was CHL, their chances of stopping the shooter would depend partly on luck. (good or bad...) if the shooter was across the theater from them, and not coming their way, he's out of range. If he comes toward them, and/or starts shooting at them, they can, at the least, do something besides cringing and dying.
3. If several people in the audience were CHL, the shooter would have probably been near enough to one of them to present the opportunity for a clear shot.
4. As I've said before, in that situation I would have been in the defensive mode. Find the best cover possible for my family, and hope that the shooter ignores us. If spotted, I'd do my best to at least make him want to be somewhere else.
5. My responsibility is to my family. Frankly, I'm not sure that I'm prepared to give my life, or even my finances and freedom to protect the sheep, many of whom will be the ones testifying against me in court - "He coldy and with calculation shot that poor, confused guy, instead of trying to understand him!"

 

[Rocketgeezer]

Just some random thoughts:

1. Why was the shooter wearing body armor? He surrendered quietly to the police. Did he consider the possibility of armed resistance from the audience?
2. If only one person in the audience was CHL, their chances of stopping the shooter would depend partly on luck. (good or bad...) if the shooter was across the theater from them, and not coming their way, he's out of range. If he comes toward them, and/or starts shooting at them, they can, at the least, do something besides cringing and dying.
3. If several people in the audience were CHL, the shooter would have probably been near enough to one of them to present the opportunity for a clear shot.
4. As I've said before, in that situation I would have been in the defensive mode. Find the best cover possible for my family, and hope that the shooter ignores us. If spotted, I'd do my best to at least make him want to be somewhere else.
5. My responsibility is to my family. Frankly, I'm not sure that I'm prepared to give my life, or even my finances and freedom to protect the sheep, many of whom will be the ones testifying against me in court - "He coldy and with calculation shot that poor, confused guy, instead of trying to understand him!"

My wife and I still go to the movies, not to often but still we never ever go anywhere unarmed, movies included, he would have had to get us with the first few shots, or he would have gotten some back, in this perticular instince I don't know if I could have done anything, but I'l be dammed if i would just hide and wait to get blasted

 

[Miles CowboyUp Ihrig]

I disagree...

For the average CCW/CHL Permit holder that is carrrying a small frame pistol with only one mag, then yes i would retreat and try to stay as low as possible exit the theater and call 911 and provide LEO with as much information as possible. however...

Myself, as well as a few of my friends, have taken advanced firearms training, robbery, low light, and in this case "active shooter" where we practicted drills of live fire, as well as airsoft with stress added environment, of how to deal with an active shooter, merging thru crowds of people, taking on multiple shooters, working alone as well as in pairs, how to cover our group of people to retreat safely, etc...

Just like I sit in the back of a resturant so i can see everyones movements, and observe all exits upon entering, in the movie theater i also sit in the back row with easy access to aisles (end seat).

My everyday carry piece is a sig 229 40 cal with extreme hollow points, spare 12rd mag with FMJs, 140lumen impact/tac flashlight with clip that fits easily in my back left pocket, case of pepperspray for nonlife threatening encounters, as well as a kabar TDI that I have trained with thru flippino/kail.

Now i have never been to a movie where smoke was part of the 3D. so if i were to see smoke i would immediatly get out of my seat and investigate it, possibly looking for signs of a fire extinguisher. due to sitational awareness training, Hopefully at that time i would of noticed the person drawing his weapon and I would hope that my muscle memory would unholster my weapon and light and fire within a few seconds. chances are a few of his rounds would of been shot off and a person or two may of possible been injured or killed, but its beats 14 dead with 40 wounded.

Body armor doesnt mean you keep on fighting, it means it safes your life (depending on layers and mindset/drug impared on PCP, bath salts, etc), it may just slow him down but it might give you a chance for a facial shot.

but a CCW permit holder with advanced training would definitly do more good then harm.

The fact of the matter is we live in a world where there are crazy people like this that will unleash harm on innocent people and you have to train and be prepared for this... would i much rather carry a keltec pf9 then a full size gun with extra mags and other self defense weapons, no doubt, but thats not the reality. Chances are i will never face something like this but if i ever do then i am preparred. I ask that everyone on here does the same.

 

[Miles CowboyUp Ihrig]

where was anyones situational awarness during all of this... Someone that had a gas mask a rifle and body armour would defintily stick out of the crowd, even if he was able to someone conceal it with a trench coat, etc..

 

[Miles CowboyUp Ihrig]

that theater had a "no firearms" sign.

and a lot of good that did... thats why i "dont see those signs"... conceal carry is CONCEALED CARRY... what people dont know dont hurt them

 

[theohiostate77]

Nothing like being set-up to be a victim

It's the backwards thinking that these corporations impose these rules. It's simple and we have said it before and will say it again. The criminals do not care what sign you post about no guns allowed on premises. If I'm a criminal I know where I'm going to commit my crime. They might as well and hang a sign please know that you have a greater chance of becoming a victim of you enter our place of business. Now they are going to try and toughen up the gun laws again. I'm so sick and tired of this. I hope the movie theater has to issue so much money for lawsuits that they have to close!!

 

[K7lvo]

One of the things that governments and corporations have in common is that they want the general populace to be docile sheep.

 

[walt629]

If he hadn't decided to quit on his own for whatever reason, the gunman might well still be in there shooting at people. I'll take the kool aid, thanks.

Had I been at a theater, it would have been to take my young son. This is just the kind of movie we would typically go see. This just reinforces to me the need to carry.



Sent from my Xoom using Tapatalk 2

Yeah, but would you have been at the midnight showing? For the life of me, I fail to understand why parents think it is okay to take young children to a PG13 movie at midnight.

 

[B2Tall]

where was anyones situational awarness during all of this... Someone that had a gas mask a rifle and body armour would defintily stick out of the crowd, even if he was able to someone conceal it with a trench coat, etc..

He wouldn't stick out in this case. A lot of people go to these comic book movies premieres in elaborate costumes, dresed both as good guys and bad guys. Google "comic-con" and click on "images". You'll get an idea of what I'm talking about.

 

[walt629]

Colorado has State Preemption Aurora can't ban concealed carry the theater is posted but all they can do is ask you to leave.

You might want to have some idea of what you're talking about before you do


Link Removed

Oh! Good! you're still here. Safe and sound. Funny thing, I though of you when I heard about this. Glad to see your tippy taps. :crazy_pilot:

 

[jg1967]

My wife and I still go to the movies, not to often but still we never ever go anywhere unarmed, movies included, he would have had to get us with the first few shots, or he would have gotten some back, in this perticular instince I don't know if I could have done anything, but I'l be dammed if i would just hide and wait to get blasted

Before you just get gunned down lying on the floor you might as well!

 

[walt629]

so sad the theater bans guns. it may have turned out different if this movie theater didn't have their heads in the sand. as iv'e said before, banning guns from law abiding citizens is going to reek chaos here. bad guys will always have guns. well movie theater hows your banning guns working out for you now?

I'm going to play the Devil's advocate here. Not picking on you Gramps, but just using this as an "in" to the train of thought.

Everyone seems to be coming down of the "no gun" "ban" in theaters, MO, Aurora etc, etc. as the cause for not preventing the mayhem. "If someone had a legal gun they could have defended the crowd, dropped the bad guy, saved the day" etc, etc.

What about locking the doors? What about the responsibility of the theater for not having the EMERGENCY exit door alarmed?

So far the reports say the guy (a guy) sat in the front row. As the movie began he went out a front EMERGENCY exit and blocked the door open. Minutes later the gunman entered. So either there was an accomplice or the gunman himself went out that door.

How long would you sit in a theater with an EMERGENCY alarm going off before you did something about it? Everyone is saying a citizen with a gun would have changed the outcome. Possibly. But I'm saying that if the doors were alarmed and or locked, none of it would have happened.

The responsibility for all the death falls on two players. The gunman and most of all on the theater owner.

 

[Boston Boy]

Count me in with the crowd who never goes ANYWHERE unarmed, posted signs or not! At age 65, and going thru the things I have in my life I won't let some schmuck zap me, and will not give up without a fight! see below

Maj. Gen. Joseph Warren 1741-1775) at Bunker Hill: Warren was known to have repeatedly declared of the British: "These fellows say we won't fight! By Heaven, I hope I shall die up to my knees in blood!"

 

[Treo]

Sorry for the incorrect information I posted about Aurora banning concealed carry as noted in what I thought was a fairly reputable source.
I have found many more sources explaining that while municipalities may restrict open carry, they are preempted from doing so with concealed carry.

Sorry I got snarky Cease fire is anything but a reputable source

 

[walt629]

First of all, what a tragic incident. Whether or not the theater or City's unjust rules would have changed anything is pure speculation.

For those that say the gunman would be a nearly impossible target due to the homemade tear gas, dark theater, and crowd.... I call BS! He was certainly able to make a target out of 70+ people under those conditions!

He was wearing a mask and goggles to protect himself. I don't think there were too many in the audience that well prepared.

I can assure you, that I wouldn't just go shooting all crazy and hitting innocent people.... BUT, I can promise that if I were in that theater and not one of the first victims, I'd be awaiting my chance for some clear shots and my gun would be EMPTY or I'd be DEAD trying.

I don't know you Bozz so this is a legitimate question. Do you have combat experience or force on force training? Most people, and you may be one of the few fortunate, don't the experience and when exposed to such a vicious and violent action, go into an adrenaline rush that makes it impossible to do anything other that act instinctively. If a person doesn't have FOF or combat training, I doubt they would or could do anything other than join the herd and stampede.

It does no good to carry a gun, but NOT have the mindset that you are more capable and WILLING to step up when the need arises. I'm not talking about playing cowboy defending a banks money if you end up in a robbery... I'm talking about defending ones LIVES against a sick, madman like we just saw.

Think about it.

My thinking tells me you're right about this Bozz. Unfortunately there are too many of us that DO carry but DON'T have the mind set necessary if they are thrust into a life or death situation. Different people will make different survival decisions in this scenario. I know I'm not the one that's going to go toe to toe with a mad gunman, but if there is time to make a conscientious decision, I like to think I'm make the decisions to get me out alive.

 

[walt629]

I'm also wondering why nobody tried to tackle him. He can't be facing every direction at once, and there almost had to be people behind him and in close proximity. Food for thought.

Not many sheep have the intestinal fortitude to jump on the back of a wolf while it's feeding on the other herd members.

That damn "everyone for them self attitude" is a b*tch when it jumps up and bite you in the butt. :biggrin:

 

[walt629]

When major events occur, such as this, I often turn the AM dial from conservative talk radio to the liberal progressive channel. I attempt to understand why people take positions that are so apposed to my core beliefs. I shared, in an earlier post that progressive radio was early on blaming the Tea Party etc.

Yesterday afternoon I tuned back into "the other side" and found the conversation was about conceal carry. A caller had phoned in stating that he was licensed to carry and that he believed CCW holders could have made a difference. The woman host made light of the caller, referring to him as "Gomer". {I guess a reference to Gomer Pyle) She said that the last thing needed were other guns blazing away, killing additional movie goers and each other.

Returning from a corporate money making break,laugh the conversation returned to what could be done to mitigate this type of tragedy. The hostess believed that the future should require better security. She had no problem with a police presence. To her credit she believed that although she would like to see guns go away, "the toothpaste was out of the tube" and realistically it was not going to happen.

I found myself in disbelief that this hostess could be so dismissive of a conceal carry caller and yet want more security. She obviously new very little, if anything about how well trained numerous CCW holders are. Many have similar tactical training as most police officers. I firmly believe that a number of CCW holders on this site would do as well as LEO's in like situations.

Both sides are easily dismissive of the other simply because it's what the side they represent want to hear. Would that happen to have been Dusty Rhodes?

 

[BluesStringer]

The gunman and most of all on the theater owner.

Umm...."most of all the theater owner???" You sure you want to stick with that train of thought?