colarado has ccw,but no one was carrying at the movie?

[Shoobee]

I think probably because 1 or 2 people are likely to die taking down the armed man/terrorist. Most people don't want it to be them, thus hold off doing something until someone else makes the first move. Not lack of common sense, but fear. Perfectly natural. It's rare for a person to be able to overcome fear and do what logic dictates. Not everyone can be a hero just like not everyone can be an Olympic athlete. That's why we honor our heroes.

I don't feel people should be criticized for that, either. Especially from one who has never been in a similar situation and acted differently.

I think most people who make a big show of being fearless probably aren't.


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"Logic" would dictate going with the "fear" and *not* doing anything stupid or bold.

As we say while riding motorcycles, there are old motorcyclists, and there are bold motorcyclists, but there are no old & bold motorcyclists!

 

[grizline]

Grizline aren't you damm glad you did not go into theatre #9 ?!

You are one lucky sob!

By the time I was off the phone with 911 the police were there. Yes I was lucky.

I was working with heavy equipment at the time so it was very loud. If I would have turned around at the time, I would have seen him go into the theater. I was maybe 200 feet from his car. Very sad situation.

 

[GlockOclock]

By the time I was off the phone with 911 the police were there. Yes I was lucky.

I was working with heavy equipment at the time so it was very loud. If I would have turned around at the time, I would have seen him go into the theater. I was maybe 200 feet from his car. Very sad situation.

If you don't mind my asking, what did you see that caused you to dial 911?

 

[Shoobee]

By the time I was off the phone with 911 the police were there. Yes I was lucky.

I was working with heavy equipment at the time so it was very loud. If I would have turned around at the time, I would have seen him go into the theater. I was maybe 200 feet from his car. Very sad situation.

Dont think about that. There is nothing you or anyone else could do to change anything. The grad school kid was too geared up and determined.

The thing that saved everyone (except the poor 12 who died) is that Holmes chose a faulty weapon system for his scheme. ARs jam all the time, especially after about 100 fast rounds. So whether merely a faulty AR or an Angel of God, something intervened.

 

[kerb]

I'm going to play the Devil's advocate here. Not picking on you Gramps, but just using this as an "in" to the train of thought.

Everyone seems to be coming down of the "no gun" "ban" in theaters, MO, Aurora etc, etc. as the cause for not preventing the mayhem. "If someone had a legal gun they could have defended the crowd, dropped the bad guy, saved the day" etc, etc.

What about locking the doors? What about the responsibility of the theater for not having the EMERGENCY exit door alarmed?

So far the reports say the guy (a guy) sat in the front row. As the movie began he went out a front EMERGENCY exit and blocked the door open. Minutes later the gunman entered. So either there was an accomplice or the gunman himself went out that door.

How long would you sit in a theater with an EMERGENCY alarm going off before you did something about it? Everyone is saying a citizen with a gun would have changed the outcome. Possibly. But I'm saying that if the doors were alarmed and or locked, none of it would have happened.

The responsibility for all the death falls on two players. The gunman and most of all on the theater owner.

Gotta disagree. The responsibility rests squarely on one person.
I seriously doubt the theater did anything wrong. There are rules for doors, alarms, etc and what are the chances the theater didn't follow them? Slim to 0.



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[kerb]

It is plain common sense not to permit CCW weapons at --

- a movie theatre
- a stadium
- an arena
- a bar with alcohol being served
- a courtroom
- a jail or prison
- a Federal facility

That will never change. So if you were at the movies, and you had a weapon with you, unless you were an on duty or off duty or retired LEO, you would have been breaking the trespass law.

So let me get this straight...
I can be trusted to carry a loaded weapon except for those places? Gee, the government trusted me to carry one 24/7. I managed never to shoot someone on accident or commit a crime.

Why should an leo be afforded the ability to defend himself but not the rest of us? On duty or off.

Common dense maybe, but sure not common sense.

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[dmaxx3500]

this guy wasn't wearing body armor,he had a tactical vest on

 

[Numenor]

It was a vest over the ballistic armor, like the Army's Interceptor vests are.

 

[grizline]

If you don't mind my asking, what did you see that caused you to dial 911?

3 teenaged kids came running out with no shoes on. They said someone was shooting people inside. It was in a very paniced voices and in shock as you could imagine.

 

[GlockOclock]

3 teenaged kids came running out with no shoes on. They said someone was shooting people inside. It was in a very paniced voices and in shock as you could imagine.

Holy crap! Scary stuff.

 

[fullmentaljacket]

Hey Bozz......the shooter has one HUGE advantage over a CCing bystander...........the shooter doesn't care who he hits. That's his mission - to shoot as many as possible. He had a "target-rich enviornment" to say the least.

Now unless you're going to start shooting willy-nilly, not caring who/how many you hit as long as the shooter was one of them, then you're going to have to choose your shots very carefully....otherwise you might end up doing as much or more damage than the shooter himself.

New to the forum. I am Canadian (nobody's perfect), so I do not carry, concealed or otherwise, because of the blanket gun control laws of my country. Anyway, I was reading this thread with interest and had some thoughts. Was thinking about the 2 parts of this post, and it seems like if you were to return fire with the shooter as your sole target, and you were able to get one or two clean shots through the crowd that ultimately put him down, it might be preferable to take those shots, rather than let him continue, as you could be next. I'd feel pretty bad if I were carrying, and didn't try to stop him, and then became a victim, too. How long from the first shot fired would it take an average, moderately well trained carrier to realize the threat was real and lethal, assess the risk of hitting innocents, draw one's weapon, and return fire? 20 to 30 seconds? More? Probably impossible to estimate. I've never even considered a situation like this, until recently. We had a street party in Toronto get strafed recently, in what was now thought to be gang related, with 2 deceased, 12 wounded. I started wondering if we had CCW laws up here, and the shooters had had to consider the possibility of return fire, would they have been as bold? They knew the chances of anyone at the party having immediate access to firearms for self-defense was almost nil, with our heavily restrictive gun possession laws (to the best of my knowledge, we have no CCW except in very specific and rare circumstances). They knew they wouldn't be taking fire, and they just closed in on their targets and started firing. So, they didn't need to wear body armor like the Aurora shooter. We've had a few more fatal shootings since the street party, so our "need more gun control" leaning politicians are starting to chirp.

 

[Stan45]

CODE OF ORDINANCES
City of AURORA, COLORADO


ArSec. 94-152. - Firearms on private property.

(a)
It shall be unlawful for any person, carrying a firearm, to enter or remain upon any private property of another or any building or property of a commercial establishment when such property, building, or establishment is posted with notification that the carrying of firearms is prohibited.

 

[captD]

Let's get off the kool aid guys. All that any of us CCWers could have done in a crowded theater full of tear gas, with people running all over, would have been shoot the poor members of the crowd that he missed! This is not an IPSC scenario, this is bedlam and more guns would not have mitigated anything. A situation like this would not even been helped by armed guards inside the theater. The carnage would still have occurred. He was wearing body armor and was moving and firing. This was a very tragic occurrence, but the fact is that the shooter was organized enough and hit fast and hard enough that nothing would have helped. I just wish the anti gun ground could put down their koolaid cup long enough to realize that none of their measures would have stopped this bedlam either.

I can't imagine any of my fellow shooters failing to hit a man sized target at the distance this guy must have been, after hearing deafening shots, or gas. It boggles my mind to realize there wasn't a single person able to diffuse this situation. Especially in CO. I guarantee there are people kicking themselves for bowing down to some stupid sign on a wall. And they should. We all should. By the way, he was wearing a "tactical assault vest" AKA vest with pockets on it, not kevlar. I just read on a local news report that it was bought from a store in my town. You can't buy kevlar, mag holders and a knife for 300 bucks. If I'm wrong then I'd like to have that catalog. It was a terrible thing and I don't mean to sound cold, but I'm more shocked over the fact that he was able to continue for as long as he did. This was obviously innapropriate behaviour(psycopathic probably) that would never be allowed to happen if the government would start to trust those who support it(all of us, even if we don't agree).

 

[fstroupe]

I hope that everyone realizes that this guy was just spraying rounds into the crowd. If you have ever fired after donning a protective mask you already know that it nearly impossible to aim.

As far as you guys who have said what you would do, I'm glad. Personally, I think if I had heard the pins pop on the grenades (I have heard no less than three interviewees state that they heard the noise and knew what they were. I'm sure most people did not know. It is a sound that a soldier will never forget), carrying or not, I would have pushed my wife out of her seat into the floor in front of our seats and laid on top of her. If armed I would have probably then pulled my weapon and hoped the guy didn't see me, once I realize that they were smoke or gas grenades, and not frags. I would not have been looking for him.

Call that what you wish. If he had stopped at the end of the aisle in front of me, I would have put some .45 rounds center mass if possible.

Though it would probably be different if I had been alone, I would not have been alone at the theater. Of course all is conjecture, I would not have been at a midnight showing anyway, it is hard enough for us to stay awake during the matinee.

God bless the wounded and the victims' families.

 

[Beau]

Everyone there was under 30, people that age don't carry, his vest would not have stopped me from 2 rounds in the gut to knock the wind out of him then a 45 auto to the head, i always pack for this very reason , sign's posted would not stop me from packing in a movie theatre ,, but when it comes down to my safety and the safety of other's i don't play by the rules. "Just how i am"

Ridiculous. I've carried since I was 21.

 

[BluesStringer]

By the way, he was wearing a "tactical assault vest" AKA vest with pockets on it, not kevlar. I just read on a local news report that it was bought from a store in my town. You can't buy kevlar, mag holders and a knife for 300 bucks. If I'm wrong then I'd like to have that catalog.

They have found and released the details of only one receipt, the one to which you refer for $300 that included the tactical vest. They have also confirmed a slew of FedEx deliveries in recent weeks and I heard at least one media report (don't remember which station/reporter) that he spent approximately $15K preparing for the movie premier night. Most tac vests have pockets sewn into them as armor plate carriers. It's unknown at this time whether or not he had plates installed, or if the vest he wore even had the built-in carriers, though, if it really was a Blackhawk brand vest, chances are it did. The cops have said that he had Level IIa armor. I'm inclined to believe that they know the difference between an empty plate carrier and one filled with Level IIa plates, but again, we are not privy to whether or not that was an early erroneous report that just hasn't been clarified yet. In any case, just because he only spent $300 on a few of the items he used in the attack, does not preclude him having spent another $400 to $600 or so at another vendor for the plates to armor up with. It has been surmised that he bought from a multitude of vendors so as not to attract scrutiny by any one of them. A little here, and a little there at least contributed to him seeming "normal" leading up to the massacre.

Blues

 

[captD]

I was merely trying to respond to the news media's portrail of his equipment as unusual or agressive, yet way to easy to get. He used normal firearms and normal garb that most of us own. His actions were apalling, not his tools or gear.

 

[The_Outlaw]

With your heart beating like crazy from all the adrenaline, are you sure you could hit his face squarely?
Remember how it feels to stalk a buck? Your heart is always beating like crazy.
Sure, you and I can hit a face sized target at 25 yards at the range. That's way different though.

As I stated earlier, "It would be difficult, but not impossible".

 

[jg1967]

As I stated earlier, "It would be difficult, but not impossible".

And why not try it? Otherwise you just end up dead on the floor.

 

[kerb]

"Logic" would dictate going with the "fear" and *not* doing anything stupid or bold.

As we say while riding motorcycles, there are old motorcyclists, and there are bold motorcyclists, but there are no old & bold motorcyclists!

Your statement makes no sense to me.
Fear is a primal instinct. People who are acting out of fear are not thinking. Logic implies thinking things through. Coming to the the realization that survival means going against your instincts. Quite the opposite.