colarado has ccw,but no one was carrying at the movie?

[Nightmare45]

I pose this question again, where was your police protection anti gun folks?? Yes, reaction never beats action and a crowded theater full of running folks may not have allowed for a ccw response, but no response at all and no guns allowed worked???? Wake up even if you got behind a chair and did not discharge your weapon at least you had a fighting chance if the opportunity presented itself. Every single one of these recent acts have taken place in gun free zones, the evil gun did it again, walked into a theater and discharged, the person carrying the gun was not responsible and should be set free. Ban movie theaters, high schools and military bases and these acts would not happen, oh yea and evil cars with 50,000 plus folks killed by them last year.

 

[Bozz]

First of all, what a tragic incident. Whether or not the theater or City's unjust rules would have changed anything is pure speculation.

For those that say the gunman would be a nearly impossible target due to the homemade tear gas, dark theater, and crowd.... I call BS! He was certainly able to make a target out of 70+ people under those conditions!

I can assure you, that I wouldn't just go shooting all crazy and hitting innocent people.... BUT, I can promise that if I were in that theater and not one of the first victims, I'd be awaiting my chance for some clear shots and my gun would be EMPTY or I'd be DEAD trying.

It does no good to carry a gun, but NOT have the mindset that you are more capable and WILLING to step up when the need arises. I'm not talking about playing cowboy defending a banks money if you end up in a robbery... I'm talking about defending ones LIVES against a sick, madman like we just saw.

Think about it.

 

[araczynski]

i'm with Bozz, he wasn't exactly wearing Level 3 body armor. if you were lucky enough to play dead, he bought it, and walked by you within a dozen or two feet, if you unloaded on him with a .40/.45, he'd be swiss cheese guaranteed.

 

[Firefighterchen]

Everyone there was under 30, people that age don't carry...

Sorry, but yes we do carry.

 

[Treo]

From Colorado Law:

(1) (a) A permit to carry a concealed handgun authorizes the permittee to carry a concealed handgun in all areas of the state, except as specifically limited in this section. A permit does not authorize the permittee to use a handgun in a manner that would violate a provision of state law. A local government does not have authority to adopt or enforce an ordinance or resolution that would conflict with any provision of this part 2. (b) A peace officer may temporarily disarm a permittee, incident to a lawful stop of the permittee. The peace officer shall return the handgun to the permittee prior to discharging the permittee from the scene.
(2) A permit issued pursuant to this part 2 does not authorize a person to carry a concealed handgun into a place where the carrying of firearms is prohibited by federal law. Page 18-senate bill 03-024

Blackthorn could you post a link to your source? I'd like to read the entire thing

 

[B2Tall]

For those that say the gunman would be a nearly impossible target due to the homemade tear gas, dark theater, and crowd.... I call BS! He was certainly able to make a target out of 70+ people under those conditions!

Think about it.

Hey Bozz......the shooter has one HUGE advantage over a CCing bystander...........the shooter doesn't care who he hits. That's his mission - to shoot as many as possible. He had a "target-rich enviornment" to say the least.

Now unless you're going to start shooting willy-nilly, not caring who/how many you hit as long as the shooter was one of them, then you're going to have to choose your shots very carefully....otherwise you might end up doing as much or more damage than the shooter himself.

 

[Domineaux]

Sorry for the incorrect information I posted about Aurora banning concealed carry as noted in what I thought was a fairly reputable source.
I have found many more sources explaining that while municipalities may restrict open carry, they are preempted from doing so with concealed carry.

 

[Flanmedic51]

As others have pointed out, it was a nearly impossible tactical situation. Dark room, tear gas, hundreds of panicked people.....I have to believe that I would have taken a shot only a point-blank range. The lucky ones were near an exit. The others pretty much had to rely on the protection of the "herd", so to speak.....hoping that because the shooter has so many targets to choose from, you won't be one of them.

I tend to agree with statements like this. Its sooo easy to be Monday morning QB in these instances and to fantasize these situations in our heads without the stress of having gun fire, tear gas, and bullets flying by our heads. Its these instances where trained soldiers will actually have loss of bowels in the field due to primitive flight/fight responses. But in any case such as this, I think taking cover first is priority and then...who knows. Most folks have never been exposed to tear gas on the shooting range so I think engaging a threat under extreme and atypical environmental conditions that a civilian isn't used to, could create more causualties. Granted, I carry in the theatre when I go and hope to be able to extinguish any catastrophic threat, but this scenario is sooo extreme and otherwise one that most of us wouldn't fathom of happening. I train tactically and carry everyday, but sometimes the way the cards are played out, innocent folks will still die and we can bet on incidents like this to happen in the future...I can only hope I'm wrong.

 

[jameshd]

Anyways - I got to looking into the Denver municipal code and found this:

Doesn't matter what Denver municipal code says; this was in Aurora. Only way you can tell is by the signs, but it is a different city.

 

[ryanc]

Doesn't matter what Denver municipal code says; this was in Aurora. Only way you can tell is by the signs, but it is a different city.

An excellent point. I've had Denver on the brain as I've got a trip there coming up next week. Sorry!

The municipal code of Aurora has a very similar section which can be viewed at DIVISION 2. - WEAPONS.

 

[B2Tall]

I'm also wondering why nobody tried to tackle him. He can't be facing every direction at once, and there almost had to be people behind him and in close proximity. Food for thought.

 

[Shoobee]

Let's get off the kool aid guys. All that any of us CCWers could have done in a crowded theater full of tear gas, with people running all over, would have been shoot the poor members of the crowd that he missed! This is not an IPSC scenario, this is bedlam and more guns would not have mitigated anything. A situation like this would not even been helped by armed guards inside the theater. The carnage would still have occurred. He was wearing body armor and was moving and firing. This was a very tragic occurrence, but the fact is that the shooter was organized enough and hit fast and hard enough that nothing would have helped. I just wish the anti gun ground could put down their koolaid cup long enough to realize that none of their measures would have stopped this bedlam either.

You are quite correct, WJH. This shooter had visualized and thought of everything, the gas, the body armor, and lots of ammo. He even rigged his own apartment to blow as well.

Duck and cover or run is about the only strategy that would work in this incident. Especially since most CCW-ers load hollow points, rather than FMJ, and hollow points are quite easily stopped by body armor.

The thing that the shooter did not know, since he got all his info by speaking with gun dealers, who are willing to say anything to sell you anything, is that the AR-15 package jams easily when fired a lot. So fortunately his rifle jammed on him, and he did not know how to unjam it. This saved a lot of people, since most of his ammo was 5.56 rather than shotgun or 40 cal.

Had the shooter known what he was doing he would have brought a different weapon than the AR. Good thing he did not.

Thoughts and prayers go out to the victims and their families, and the community there.

 

[Deserteagle]

Sorry for the incorrect information I posted about Aurora banning concealed carry as noted in what I thought was a fairly reputable source.
I have found many more sources explaining that while municipalities may restrict open carry, they are preempted from doing so with concealed carry.

Perhaps you should read the actual law rather than a random website's interpretation of it

 

[Blackthorn]

Here is the link:
http://www.handgunlaw.us/states/colorado.pdf

 

[Deserteagle]

I'm also wondering why nobody tried to tackle him. He can't be facing every direction at once, and there almost had to be people behind him and in close proximity. Food for thought.

That would make entirely too much sense. Surely some would get shot no matter what, but it would end his shooting spree early.

Your post reminds me of the hijacked plane scenario. Hundreds of passengers versus 3-5 men, and yet the 3-5 men win. Why? Because it makes too much sense for the majority to take over the few bad guys. This world lacks common sense.

 

[birdman46g]

This is a shooting that very few people would ever train for or could train for to stop.If someone was CC do you hold your fire for a clean shot or do you take the shot knowing that someone behind the target might get hit with a pass thru slug or two.I would like to hear from a LEO as to how policy would let then respond.
So maybe here is the test case for the court since someone my have had to go to the movie with out their gun because of a " no guns allowd" posting. I think it sends a great message to all CCL holders, dont leave home with out it.JMO

 

[gaspareroo]

Don't get me wrong do I think that any CCW at the movies could have stop him? No one can say for sure. The one thing I do know is he was not wearing body armor to look good. When the cops got him in their sights he gave up without a fight. I think its possible that if a few round came his way he could have **** himself and ran. That would have save how meany life's? 1 % chance of 1 % is better then no chance at all.

 

[wjh2657]

I'm also wondering why nobody tried to tackle him. He can't be facing every direction at once, and there almost had to be people behind him and in close proximity. Food for thought.

Too many folks identifying with Marvel Comics superheroes here.

 

[B2Tall]

Too many folks identifying with Marvel Comics superheroes here.

It wouldn't be the first time a shooter had his murder-spree cut short by someone treating him like a tackling dummy.

 

[Warbirds]

You are quite correct, WJH. This shooter had visualized and thought of everything, the gas, the body armor, and lots of ammo. He even rigged his own apartment to blow as well.

Duck and cover or run is about the only strategy that would work in this incident. Especially since most CCW-ers load hollow points, rather than FMJ, and hollow points are quite easily stopped by body armor.

The thing that the shooter did not know, since he got all his info by speaking with gun dealers, who are willing to say anything to sell you anything, is that the AR-15 package jams easily when fired a lot. So fortunately his rifle jammed on him, and he did not know how to unjam it. This saved a lot of people, since most of his ammo was 5.56 rather than shotgun or 40 cal.

Had the shooter known what he was doing he would have brought a different weapon than the AR. Good thing he did not.

Thoughts and prayers go out to the victims and their families, and the community there.

What is your source that his AR jammed? I have found speculation but no facts so are you adding to the facts or arm chair quarterbacking and showing your uninformed opinions at the some time?


I know around here the are two basic theater layouts, walking from the back of the theater tho find your seats or walking from the front. Depending on the layout the gunman could have been between the victims and the exits or herding them towards the exits. Either way a movie theater would not be an easy place to escape or engage a shooter.

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