Christians: This is why the atheists here don't believe you

[Farmhood]

Come on think about it. Conservatives don't go to liberal sites (or lib gun sites) because it's BORING! Same with Christians going to Athiest sites or carry forum...BORING I tried but Oh My

Please start an Atheist thread on what you believe and see if Ringo has been right all along without Christians there will be no one to feed on.

sinful nature is always hostile to God....

 

[BC1]

It's astounding how Christians treat being religious as the default status for all, and inevitable for those who aren't in the default group. Truth is, the default status is that the brain starts out at birth as a clean slate and through unrelenting and assiduous brainwashing (parental, social, societal...) becomes clouded by religion for many. For those who either see through the brainwashing and/or learn to reason their way out of the intellectual fog of supernatural myths, rituals, slogans and other crap, unbrainwashing is like being born again, i.e., with a clear, honest, moral, uncluttered mind.

It's called "gut value programming" and consists of the value system programmed by society into kids during their formulative and elementary years. Sometimes the programming is from parents. Most people follow the religious views of their parents. Teachers strongly influence the programming thus people need to ensure their kids aren't being indoctrinated into some political ideology. Sometimes the programming is done by the street, continuing the drug/crime plague on society.
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The term "gut value programming" was coined by Dr. Morris Massey.

 

[gunnerbob]

How do theist and non-theist feel about agnostics? Serious question with nothing implied or negative against either group.

 

[Farmhood]

Reminds me of that movie "scanners" funny stuff!

sinful nature is always hostile to God....

 

[Gregmm6]

How do theist and non-theist feel about agnostics? Serious question with nothing implied or negative against either group.

I am atheist and agnostic. I've got no problems with them.

 

[XD40scinNC]

Whether it's an atheist who justifies killing for power or a theist who justifies killing for religion, both beliefs are a danger to society.

When I said millions of religious people, that wasn't including the millions of atheists that atheists have killed as well.

What do you guys say about people that do society good in the name of religion? For examples, food banks, clothing drives, missionaries building schools and houses, etc?

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The atheist that will kill for power is not doing so based on non-belief in characters from a book of fantasy. Yes such people exist.

The theist that kills for belief in characters from a book of fantasy is the more irrational and more dangerous of the two, and in the end is really boils down to power, the power to make people believe the nonsense they believe, or kill them if they refuse. Yes these people exist in huge numbers.

There are many civic groups that also run food banks, shelters, etc. The food-bank locally is a 501-(c)(3) and a member of Feeding America, also a 501-(c)(3) organization. Locally the distribute about 15,000,000 pounds of food annually.

Another that provides heating assistance, coat/clothing drives, school supplies at the start of the school year, etc., etc., is a non-profit started by the president of a local fuel oil company.

Yes some churches/religious groups do the same, but locally the major players in helping people are the secular organizations that provide assistance to those in need. Society will step up to help others, especially those with a natural morality not driven by the fear of a wrathful god.

As for the missionaries, building a very basic structure in another country is only for show, the real goal of these missionaries is to convert people of other beliefs to their particular beliefs. How would you react to Islamic missionaries coming to this country to convert the poor to Islam?

 

[XD40scinNC]

How do theist and non-theist feel about agnostics? Serious question with nothing implied or negative against either group.

I'm atheist, I know gods do not exist and cannot exist. Agnostics are less certain.

I have no problem with agnostics, as they do not pose a threat, are not trying to force their beliefs on others and into civil laws.

I also suspect that as they grow older and have more life experience (wiser) they will lean more toward atheism due to the lack of any evidence of gods or deities.

 

[Jarhead6541]

Firefighterchen brought up history with Pol Pot, Hitler and Mao, not me. I responded in kind.

 

[Jarhead6541]

I'll follow up with this, if good people will do good without religion, would bad people do bad without religion? How is replacing religion, with any other justification, better for good or bad?

How do you know the reasons religious people do charity?

Why do you think I'm religious or that I believe?

Governments have killed more people than religion has...while governments can use "religion" as justification, in the end, it's the same justification any government commits genocide, power and control...Doesn't matter atheists or theists.

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Your questions have either fairly obvious answers or complicated ones, and I'm too short on time to play philosophical.

As for gov. killing more people, most had religious underpinnings. In most instances, religion has been the primary or secondary impetus for war or killing throughout history.

For the most part, I've said my piece. I may jump in later, for now there's too many things on the "to do" list to follow along.

 

[SR9]

I'm thinking it's not Governments and Religion so much as it is Good vs. Evil. Evil people do Evil things. They might be part of a Government or a Religion, but still Evil. Satan loves to infiltrate both.

 

[Gregmm6]

Agnostics are less certain

Well, that depends on what you're talking about. As someone who is agnostic, I am as certain of my atheism as you are of your atheism. The difference between you and I is that you are gnostic, and I am agnostic. We are equally atheist.

 

[Saltheart Foamfollower]

The religion"debate" is ongoing and never changing. I am not a Christian. My stepdaughter has shown an interest in Christianity and attends church weekly. We have an understanding. She doesn't try to convert me and I don't demean or disprove her beliefs. I support her decision to attend her church. We are both happy with this arrangement as its based on mutual respect.

If only society at large could (would) follow the same example.

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[BC1]

the

In short, brainwashing--and of the worst kind as it starts (all religion, not just Christianity) while children are impossibly young and never lets up in order to keep them in the "flock." Only the extraordinarily strong and bright (or those whose parents insulate them from unrelenting religious indoctrination's corrosive and malignant effects) survive it to form rational minds of their own unfettered by infinite layers of religious nonsense.

Gut value programming is not brainwashing. It's how children learn their value system. They are sponges that pickup on the nature of their environment. Raising kids to deal drugs, lie, cheat, steal, quit school, drink, get welfare benefits, food stamps and free healthcare. In essence being taught to do everything their parents do. The entire socio-economic problems that plague America are handed down generation after generation. Religion is a component of GVP in the development stages. However one must consider free will comes into play at a certain age. Thus not everyone follows the same path. Religion is only one component.

 

[JimTh]

That's not why we don't believe. Here's a *short*Link Removed list of some reasons not to believe:


Many other vastly different religions exist: All proclaiming their truth [ie one true God].

Faith is rewarded to the same degree as disbelief; Prayer is a 50/50 shot.

God can't be proven.

The God of the Bible can be disproven; If he were really the author of the Bible, it would be much less full of atrocities, contradictions, plagiarisms and absurdities. The only real knowledge we have on the subject comes either from numinous, unverifiable personal experiences or ancient books of mythology which can be proven to be nonsense.

Religion, by nature, is deluding: Insubstantiality; When you ask God to do something and he does not, it is easy enough to come up with any excuse for him, and since he doesn't really exist any excuse fits neatly.

Science is better: It does have a method for obtaining answers, whereas religion simply claims answers.

The origins of all religions are clear: God was made in man’s image.
He was a creation of humanity from when we couldn't figure out any better explanation for the difficult questions of existence.

Religion is destructive: It separates, divides and isolates. Religion creates rifts and divisions in the world. It causes backwards-thinking and halts medical, scientific, and societal progress. It encourages people to be content rather than try to better themselves, and to trust in an invisible friend rather than strive to succeed.

Evil exists in the world: Epicurus; “Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?”

"Free will" Is it the free will of all those precious children who die of leukemia, or AIDS, or SIDS, or who are born into the world handicapped or diseased at no fault of their own?

We are told anyone not accepting Jesus into their hearts are to suffer forever in a lake of fire. What of those who have never heard of Christianity. What of those who tried to believe and failed?

I can only believe what's known to be true.

The only reason you know them to be the right thing to do is that is what you were taught. Human beings are not born good...hate to break the news to you. If you doubt me take a 2 year old into a toy store and see how good they are. Now someone taught you. The question you need to answer for yourself is who was the first teacher?

 

[XD40scinNC]

The only reason you know them to be the right thing to do is that is what you were taught. Human beings are not born good...hate to break the news to you. If you doubt me take a 2 year old into a toy store and see how good they are. Now someone taught you. The question you need to answer for yourself is who was the first teacher?

Even at two years of age, this is clearly the difference between good parenting and bad parenting. The only thing a 2 year old understands is limits, and it parents don't set any limits and allow the child to run wild at home, they will in the toy store.

First teacher, the responsible parent, or the irresponsible parent, and has absolutely nothing at all to do with religion or lack of religion.

 

[Jarhead6541]

The only reason you know them to be the right thing to do is that is what you were taught. Human beings are not born good...hate to break the news to you. If you doubt me take a 2 year old into a toy store and see how good they are. Now someone taught you. The question you need to answer for yourself is who was the first teacher?

Nature vs nurture is presently a complicated and inconclusive field of study, I wouldn’t begin to profess to have the answers.

Though I’ve read one concept is hormones affected by emotional states flip genetic switches that influence personality development in a child’s early growth stages. How much responsibility lies with ones genes or the environment they grow up in I think is unknown at this time.

It sounds as though you’re insinuating that either this “original sin” BS or a religious upbringing is necessary to produce a decent human being, which is preposterous. Most intelligent people will deny that manipulating childrens behavior with abusive physical punishment, threatening afterlife scenarios or fear of an invisible control freak in the sky induces a positive outcome.

When you consider that the US prison population consists of 99%+ believers in God, but only 0.02% atheists, your position on faith being needed seems to fail...miserably.


"If all the Atheists & Agnostics left America, they'd lose 93% of The National Academy of Sciences & less than 1% of the prison population."


? Religious affiliation of inmates in U.S. prisons, 2011 | Statistic

 

[BC1]

In short, it's still unrelenting religious brainwashing, however distinguished, disguised, deceptively mislabeled, and rationalized. As to "free will" at a "certain age," religious brainwashing has the intended purpose and effect of making it not so free at all.

Atheism is also religious brainwashing. XD said his parents were atheists. Gut value programming at work right?

 

[BC1]

Nature vs nurture is presently a complicated and inconclusive field of study, I wouldn’t begin to profess to have the answers.

Though I’ve read one concept is hormones affected by emotional states flip genetic switches that influence personality development in a child’s early growth stages. How much responsibility lies with ones genes or the environment they grow up in I think is unknown at this time.

Perhaps unknown to you. Modern medicine, science and psychiatry have a pretty good idea. How is it I learned this stuff in College in the 1970's and you claim it's unknown.

 

[BC1]

Jesus didn’t commission you to go into all the World (except for those who have made up their minds) and proclaim the Gospel He told you to go proclaim the Gospel and let Him worry about who gets saved an who doesn’t.

How do YOU know? Tell me how you know that with absolute certainty. See how fallible the human mind is. Mankind actually believes there are absolutes.

 

[gunnerbob]

How do YOU know? Tell me how you know that with absolute certainty. See how fallible the human mind is. Mankind actually believes there are absolutes.

The only absolute is that there are no absolutes, err.... wait a second. Damn it, we're mind fvcking again!