Christians: This is why the atheists here don't believe you

[XD40scinNC]

So which is it? Religion in general or just intolerant sects of a certain belief that poses the greatest risk?

It's no different than generalizing all gun owners the biggest danger to society because some gun owners have murdered another person wth their firearm.

Intolerance seems to be the problem, excusing intolerance because of atheist or theist beliefs is just that, an excuse. Atheists are no more tolerant than theists, and are no safer for society.

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Religion, criminals, disease, weather, natural disasters, etc., etc., all of it is a threat, just some are a more acute threat than others. What do we focus on and spend the most effort defending against; the worst criminals, diseases, weather, natural disasters, and religions.

You are not carrying a gun to defend yourself from the petty criminal that is going to shoplift a candy bar at the 7-11, but from the criminal that has the intention to harm or kill you or someone you care about.

 

[Firefighterchen]

Religion, criminals, disease, weather, natural disasters, etc., etc., all of it is a threat, just some are a more acute threat than others. What do we focus on and spend the most effort defending against; the worst criminals, diseases, weather, natural disasters, and religions.

You are not carrying a gun to defend yourself from the petty criminal that is going to shoplift a candy bar at the 7-11, but from the criminal that has the intention to harm or kill you or someone you care about.

Those criminals sometimes use religion as an excuse, sometimes they use logic and reasoning as an excuse. You are intolerant of religion, maybe not physically threatening, but verbally harassing and insulting, like some religious people are intolerant of non believers here. Different side of the same coin.

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[XD40scinNC]

Those criminals sometimes use religion as an excuse, sometimes they use logic and reasoning as an excuse. You are intolerant of religion, maybe not physically threatening, but verbally harassing and insulting, like some religious people are intolerant of non believers here. Different side of the same coin.

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Because religion is a real threat to my freedoms, my future and the future of my children and grand children.

The United States has never invaded a sovereign country in it's history, until a knuckle dragging christian buffoon told enough lies and scared enough sheep to believe we should invade the sovereign country of Iraq, because he believes god told him to.

That did more to destabilize the ME, created a power vacuum allowing all of the fanatical religious sects to assume power to kill and terrorize as they wish.

Yes, religion is a real and present danger to mankind's future.

 

[BC1]

Because religion is a real threat to my freedoms, my future and the future of my children and grand children.

The United States has never invaded a sovereign country in it's history, until a knuckle dragging christian buffoon told enough lies and scared enough sheep to believe we should invade the sovereign country of Iraq, because he believes god told him to.

That did more to destabilize the ME, created a power vacuum allowing all of the fanatical religious sects to assume power to kill and terrorize as they wish.

Yes, religion is a real and present danger to mankind's future.

XD, ever heard of an American history class? To satisfy our English needs and justify our dirty deeds.
.
We invaded Germany (Roosevelt - Democrat), a sovereign nation.
We invaded Italy (Roosevelt - Democrat), a sovereign nation.
We invaded Japan (Truman - Democrat), a sovereign nation.
We invaded North Korea (Truman - Democrat), a sovereign nation.
We invaded Vietnam (Johnson - Democrat), a sovereign nation.
We invaded Panama (GHW Bush - GOP), a sovereign nation, in operation "Just Cause."
We invaded Grenada (Reagan - GOP), a sovereign nation, in operation "Urgent Fury."
We invaded Bosnia (Clinton - Democrat), a sovereign nation in 1992-1993.
We invaded Yemen, Sudan and Afghanistan (Clinton - Democrat), all sovereign nations, using cruise missiles.
American southerners invaded the United States in firing on Ft. Sumter (Davis - Democrat), in the American Civil War.
We invaded Mexico (Polk - Democrat), a sovereign nation, the Mexican-American War. Cause - American imperialism.
We invaded Cuba and the Philippines (McKinley - GOP), sovereign nations, the Spanish-American War. Cause - American imperialism.
We invaded the lands of the American Indian for many decades. Cause - American imperialism.
.
See, I told my wife no one did their homework in school. And they blame teachers?

 

[Firefighterchen]

Hard to follow you on threat assessment...first it was religion...then you said Eidolon was intolerant in his first post and I "didn't read post #1 in its entirety"... it wasn't Eidolon who was intolerant... it was just specific intolerant sects of religion...went to individual criminals... to your freedom...then to America...now back to religion and all of mankind's freedom.

In the end, you claim religion is a real threat to your freedoms. I'm sure the millions of religious people that died because of stalin, pol pot, and many other atheists felt the same real threat from atheism. Violent fanatics, whether they are atheist or religious, are a threat.

Did the US not invade Panama and Grenada?

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[Jarhead6541]

That's a tired dodge of reality.

Religious apologists, particularly those of the Christian variety, are big fans of what I have dubbed, the atheist atrocities fallacy. Christians commonly employ this fallacy to shield their egos from the harsh reality of the brutality of their own religion, by utilizing a most absurd form of the tu quoque (“you too”) fallacy, mingled with numerous other logical fallacies and historical inaccuracies. Despite the fact that the atheist atrocities fallacy has already been thoroughly exposed by Hitchens and other great thinkers, it continues to circulate amongst the desperate believers of a religion in its death throes. Should an atheist present a believer with the crimes committed by the Holy See of the Inquisition(s), the Crusaders and other faith-wielding misanthropes, they will often hear the reply; “Well, what about Stalin, Pol Pot and Hitler? They were atheists, and they killed millions!” Michael Sherlock

https://richarddawkins.net/2014/10/the-atheist-atrocities-fallacy-hitler-stalin-pol-pot/

"the Soviet Union was undeniably an atheist state, and the same applies to Maoist China and to Pol Pot’s fanatical Khmer Rouge regime in Cambodia in the 1970s. That does not, however, show that the atrocities committed by these totalitarian dictatorships were the result of atheist beliefs, carried out in the name of atheism, or caused primarily by the atheistic aspects of the relevant forms of communism. In all of these cases, the situation was more complex – as, to be fair, also applies to some of the persecutions and atrocities in which religious movements, organizations, and leaders have been deeply implicated over the centuries."

Hitler was a Catholic.

A Great Myth about Atheism: Hitler/Stalin/Pol Pot = Atheism = Atrocity | A Tippling Philosopher

 

[Firefighterchen]

Jarhead, since you seem to know why stalin, pol pot, Mao, etc killed so many, please explain what was their justification for killing millions?

Atheists vs theists...it's like watching the fight between news crews in Anchorman... Except the atheists don't think they are part of the fight while they are in the middle swinging away one handed while pointing fingers with the other hand.

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[vernsimpson]

Jarhead, since you seem to know why stalin, pol pot, Mao, etc killed so many, please explain what was their justification for killing millions?

Atheists vs theists...it's like watching the fight between news crews in Anchorman... Except the atheists don't think they are part of the fight while they are in the middle swinging away one handed while pointing fingers with the other hand.

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The reason they killed as many as they did was because they could. There was no one to stop them and if anyone did stand up to them, they made the list and were moved to the top! While that reason may sound lame, it's the best I can do because IMHO no "sane" person can understand this kind of evil!

 

[Jarhead6541]

Jarhead, since you seem to know why stalin, pol pot, Mao, etc killed so many, please explain what was their justification for killing millions?

Atheists vs theists...it's like watching the fight between news crews in Anchorman... Except the atheists don't think they are part of the fight while they are in the middle swinging away one handed while pointing fingers with the other hand.

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Power & control. The only incentive needed.

Hitler was Catholic; never excommunicated from the church.

Stalin was Greek Orthodox who later proclaimed atheism.

Pol Pot was Theravada Buddhist.

Mao was an atheist.

None of their atrocities were committed in the name of atheism.


firefighterchen) "I'm sure the millions of religious people that died because of stalin, pol pot, and many other atheists felt the same real threat from atheism."

The millions killed included atheists as well as the religious; or anyone else that stood in their way.

 

[Firefighterchen]

Power & control. The only incentive needed.

Hitler was Catholic; never excommunicated from the church.

Stalin was Greek Orthodox who later proclaimed atheism.

Pol Pot was Theravada Buddhist.

Mao was an atheist.

None of their atrocities were committed in the name of atheism.


firefighterchen) "I'm sure the millions of religious people that died because of stalin, pol pot, and many other atheists felt the same real threat from atheism."

The millions killed included atheists as well as the religious; or anyone else that stood in their way.

Whether it's an atheist who justifies killing for power or a theist who justifies killing for religion, both beliefs are a danger to society.

When I said millions of religious people, that wasn't including the millions of atheists that atheists have killed as well.

What do you guys say about people that do society good in the name of religion? For examples, food banks, clothing drives, missionaries building schools and houses, etc?

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[Jarhead6541]

Whether it's an atheist who justifies killing for power or a theist who justifies killing for religion, both beliefs are a danger to society.

When I said millions of religious people, that wasn't including the millions of atheists that atheists have killed as well.

What do you guys say about people that do society good in the name of religion? For examples, food banks, clothing drives, missionaries building schools and houses, etc?

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Firefighterchen) “What do you guys say about people that do society good in the name of religion? For examples, food banks, clothing drives, missionaries building schools and houses, etc?”

Religion in the modern world undermines charity work, misleading it, instead of helping it. It always has a price; the continual spread and manipulation of religion. Good natured people do good with or without religious pressure.
Personal or community religion is less likely to fleece it’s citizens and members actually do feel that they make a difference...and they may.
It’s just usually for the wrong reasons. As in I’ll be closer to my goal of heaven, God will reward me or maybe to cover for guilt in another manner.
Real charity needs no religion.


I’m not going to change your mind here and vice versa, but sometimes we need to say our side as well. Try seeing through our eyes once.
Every day here we see every other signature proclaiming God, Jesus, Lord, church, bible, prayer...we say nothing. While reading the threads there is continuous remarks of Jesus saves, the Lord will provide, God said to me...we say nothing. Over & over again, threads of what do you carry in church, can you carry in church, what gun would Jesus choose or whatever, nothing said. It’s frustrating to see biblical quotes and verses repeatedly overused on what’s supposed to be a gun blog.
[The fact that this site has so many knowledgeable users makes it worthwhile. I seriously doubt people come here for the fuzzy, friendly feeling they get. It’s certainly not the most easy-going, good-natured site there is]
Sorry to say, but a fair amount of people find this religious premise to be absurd, especially in this day and age. I happen to believe organized religion is THE biggest threat to peaceful society and has caused more death and misery than all other diseases combined.

In my case,this thread gave me an “in” to give my opinion on the subject as I see it, without necessarily coming off as confrontational. If you’d like, I’ll explain exactly “why” I’m not a believer and find it an oddity that so many do.
Otherwise I’d rather not continue to give you openings for your vague quips [Atheists vs theists...it's like watching the fight between news crews in Anchorman... Except the atheists don't think they are part of the fight while they are in the middle swinging away one handed while pointing fingers with the other hand.] to disparage and deride my opinions while performing for your massively one-sided audience.

 

[Firefighterchen]

firefighterchen) “What do you guys say about people that do society good in the name of religion? For examples, food banks, clothing drives, missionaries building schools and houses, etc?”



Religion in the modern world undermines charity work, misleading it, instead of helping it. It always has a price; the continual spread and manipulation of religion. Good natured people do good with or without religious pressure.
Personal or community religion is less likely to fleece it’s citizens and members actually do feel that they make a difference...and they may.
It’s just usually for the wrong reasons. As in I’ll be closer to my goal of heaven, God will reward me or maybe to cover for guilt in another matter.
Real charity needs no religion.


I’m not going to change your mind here and vice versa, but sometimes we need to say our side as well. Try seeing through our eyes once.
Every day here we see every other signature proclaiming God, Jesus, Lord, church, bible, prayer...we say nothing. While reading the threads there is continuous remarks of Jesus saves, the Lord will provide, God said to me...we say nothing. Over & over again, threads of what do you carry in church, can you carry in church, what gun would Jesus choose or whatever, nothing said. It’s frustrating to see biblical quotes and verses repeatedly overused on what’s supposed to be a gun blog.

[The fact that this site has so many knowledgeable users makes it worthwhile. I seriously doubt people come here for the fuzzy, friendly feeling they get. It’s certainly not the most easy-going, good-natured site there is]

Sorry to say, but a fair amount of people find this religious premise to be absurd, especially in this day and age. I happen to believe organized religion is THE biggest threat to peaceful society and has caused more death and misery than all other diseases combined.

In my case,this thread gave me an “in” to give my opinion on the subject as I see it, without necessarily coming off as confrontational. If you’d like, I’ll explain exactly “why” I’m not a believer and find it an oddity that so many do.

Otherwise I’d rather not continue to give you openings for your vague and pointless quips--- [Atheists vs theists...it's like watching the fight between news crews in Anchorman... Except the atheists don't think they are part of the fight while they are in the middle swinging away one handed while pointing fingers with the other hand.]--- to disparage and deride my opinions while performing for your massively one-sided audience.

I'll follow up with this, if good people will do good without religion, would bad people do bad without religion? How is replacing religion, with any other justification, better for good or bad?

How do you know the reasons religious people do charity?

Why do you think I'm religious or that I believe?

Governments have killed more people than religion has...while governments can use "religion" as justification, in the end, it's the same justification any government commits genocide, power and control...Doesn't matter atheists or theists.

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[BC1]

That's a tired dodge of reality.

Religious apologists, particularly those of the Christian variety, are big fans of what I have dubbed, the atheist atrocities fallacy. Christians commonly employ this fallacy to shield their egos from the harsh reality of the brutality of their own religion, by utilizing a most absurd form of the tu quoque (“you too”) fallacy, mingled with numerous other logical fallacies and historical inaccuracies. Despite the fact that the atheist atrocities fallacy has already been thoroughly exposed by Hitchens and other great thinkers, it continues to circulate amongst the desperate believers of a religion in its death throes. Should an atheist present a believer with the crimes committed by the Holy See of the Inquisition(s), the Crusaders and other faith-wielding misanthropes, they will often hear the reply; “Well, what about Stalin, Pol Pot and Hitler? They were atheists, and they killed millions!” Michael Sherlock

https://richarddawkins.net/2014/10/the-atheist-atrocities-fallacy-hitler-stalin-pol-pot/

"the Soviet Union was undeniably an atheist state, and the same applies to Maoist China and to Pol Pot’s fanatical Khmer Rouge regime in Cambodia in the 1970s. That does not, however, show that the atrocities committed by these totalitarian dictatorships were the result of atheist beliefs, carried out in the name of atheism, or caused primarily by the atheistic aspects of the relevant forms of communism. In all of these cases, the situation was more complex – as, to be fair, also applies to some of the persecutions and atrocities in which religious movements, organizations, and leaders have been deeply implicated over the centuries."

Hitler was a Catholic.

A Great Myth about Atheism: Hitler/Stalin/Pol Pot = Atheism = Atrocity | A Tippling Philosopher

Hitler had a Jewish father. So what's the point? Got anything in this century? How about in this millennium. Every time an atheist brings-up the Crusades it shows desperation. If you're argument is based on something 1,000 years ago you've already lost it.

 

[BC1]

Power & control. The only incentive needed.

Hitler was Catholic; never excommunicated from the church.

Stalin was Greek Orthodox who later proclaimed atheism.

Pol Pot was Theravada Buddhist.

Mao was an atheist.

None of their atrocities were committed in the name of atheism.


firefighterchen) "I'm sure the millions of religious people that died because of stalin, pol pot, and many other atheists felt the same real threat from atheism."

The millions killed included atheists as well as the religious; or anyone else that stood in their way.

And none of their atrocities were committed in the name of religion. A non item.

 

[SR9]

The way I see it , nothing I can say or do will persuade an atheist to become a Christian, and nothing an atheist can say will sway me in my belief in God, Jesus and the Bible. So I guess you can call it a stalemate, for now. My pastor said you have to, like going to an orchard, pick the ripe fruit that are ready. That green fruit are not ready to be taken, and would be a waste of time to pick. People not ready for God and The Christ Jesus, are not going to listen and will only give you ridicule and negative responses. They are too bull headed and filled with anger and hate to listen. I have found this to be true on this forum, as well as some people in life. So I guess we need to "let them hang a little longer".

 

[Farmhood]

WE, the people of the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania, grateful to Almighty God for the blessings of civil and religious liberty, and humbly invoking His guidance, do ordain and establish this Constitution.


sinful nature is always hostile to God....

 

[Axeanda45]

"Do not give dogs what is holy, and do not throw your pearls before pigs, lest they trample them underfoot and turn to attack you.
(Mat 7:6)

 

[Farmhood]

"Do not give dogs what is holy, and do not throw your pearls before pigs, lest they trample them underfoot and turn to attack you.
(Mat 7:6)

Matthew 7:6 NLT

“Don’t waste what is holy on people who are unholy. Don’t throw your pearls to pigs! They will trample the pearls, then turn and attack you.


Point well taken!

sinful nature is always hostile to God....

 

[Gregmm6]

The way I see it , nothing I can say or do will persuade an atheist to become a Christian, and nothing an atheist can say will sway me in my belief in God, Jesus and the Bible. So I guess you can call it a stalemate, for now. My pastor said you have to, like going to an orchard, pick the ripe fruit that are ready. That green fruit are not ready to be taken, and would be a waste of time to pick. People not ready for God and The Christ Jesus, are not going to listen and will only give you ridicule and negative responses. They are too bull headed and filled with anger and hate to listen. I have found this to be true on this forum, as well as some people in life. So I guess we need to "let them hang a little longer".

Or maybe it has nothing to do with bullheadedness, anger, or hate. I can tell you that I listened for years, I believed for decades, I'm not negative, nor do I ridicule the religious for their beliefs.

What you're doing here (grouping and labeling all those who are not theists) is an example of negativity and an unwillingness to understand the motivations of others.

Everyone that thinks like that (theist or otherwise) should really step back and make an effort to understand others. Otherwise, any discussion between them will devolve into a useless crapstorm of baseless accusations and willful ignorance, as we've seen evidenced here.

 

[Firefighterchen]

I just read a post in another thread in which a Christian actually told an Atheist something to the effect of “I can’t wait to get to Heaven because I won’t have to deal with you there.” Really? What part of the great commission is that from?






Jesus Christ called us to the ends of the Earth to spread the word, he said “Go out into the highways and compel them to come in that My house may be full.” Do you think Jesus is going to be happy that he doesn’t have to “deal with” that atheist in Heaven?






When Corrie Ten boom was in Jail (waiting to go to prison) the Gestapo interrogated her every day and everyday she would go into that interrogation room and she would sit there and she would proclaim Jesus to the very people that killed almost all of her family. One of them actually got saved because of it.






I’m trying to get a point across and it feels like I’m writing a sermon (definitely not my calling) but guys, being excited at the prospect of anyone on the face of this planet being cast into the lake of fire is not a Christian principle. Jesus said “ By this all will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another.” (John 13:35 NKJV).






The Bible says out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks. How can you spew this crap and wonder why they don’t believe your God is real?

^^ was written because of vv

The way I see it , nothing I can say or do will persuade an atheist to become a Christian, and nothing an atheist can say will sway me in my belief in God, Jesus and the Bible. So I guess you can call it a stalemate, for now. My pastor said you have to, like going to an orchard, pick the ripe fruit that are ready. That green fruit are not ready to be taken, and would be a waste of time to pick. People not ready for God and The Christ Jesus, are not going to listen and will only give you ridicule and negative responses. They are too bull headed and filled with anger and hate to listen. I have found this to be true on this forum, as well as some people in life. So I guess we need to "let them hang a little longer".

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