Carry in church vs. church culture

[JMWeldy]

I carry in church all the time and my Pastor knows it and appreciates it. Our church is out in the country, sits on 43 acres and we're off the road quite a bit. Also, both his son-in-laws carry too. I'm in Indiana.

 

[MONTANA]

I humbly suggest that you consult an attorney. It sounds as if Virginia has given you an "out" with the phrase "good and sufficient reason". If multiple church and school shootings in gun-free zones don't constitute "good and sufficient reason", I'm not sure what does. In addition, I bet there are many members on this site that don't really limit themselves according to where they carry based on the current laws, they just take the risk and try to maintain a low profile, with the firearm well concealed. My faith question on this issue is: "if God grants us the right to self-defense, can man really tell us when and where we have access to that right"? It's a question every person has to answer for themselves.

 

[-06]

Will add this: In Luke 23?) Jesus is addressing His disciples and commissioning them the second time. His words were--the first time I sent you out without cloak and rainment--this time if you do not have a sword then sell a cloak and buy one. His words-not mine. One of the disciples(probably Peter) replied -- here are two and Jesus replied "it is enough" . He did not tell him to only carry one. If it was good enough for the disciples with Jesus's blessings then it is good enough for me. Do not let some "mealy mouth" tell you that a Christian is not to carry a weapon, defend himself, or defend his family. If we do not provide for our family then we are "worse than infidels" as the Bible puts it. If you are killed/injured then you cannot provide for your family. It our responsibility to provide for them-not be carried by six. When Nehemiah was rebuilding the walls of Jerusalem they carried their weapons with them. We are told to keep our "bow arms" strong. We are not supposed to be victims but victorious both in spirit and in flesh.

 

[ronwill]

So tell me again what the purpose of the "religion & guns" forum is? I thought certain people didn't want discussion of religion. In fact, they seemed to hate it. So, what the hell are they doing in this forum? One of 'em disparaged going to church and the other made a crude joke regarding the size of his manhood. I must be missing something.

They will not be happy until any mention of religion is completely removed. Yet they want to be free to speak out about absolutely anything else. In my view if your aloud to discuss global warming, beavers attacking boats, post videos that have absolutely nothing to do about firearms, or gay marriage rights then religion should remain an acceptable topic.

 

[HK4U]

So tell me again what the purpose of the "religion & guns" forum is? I thought certain people didn't want discussion of religion. In fact, they seemed to hate it. So, what the hell are they doing in this forum? One of 'em disparaged going to church and the other made a crude joke regarding the size of his manhood. I must be missing something.

I am pretty sure if the size of someones manhood is all he has to talk about then there is little manhood to him. Remember These guys are trolls and they are here only to cause trouble. Consider the source and chalk it up to ignorance.

 

[mappow]

I am pretty sure if the size of someones manhood is all he has to talk about then there is little manhood to him. Remember These guys are trolls and they are here only to cause trouble. Consider the source and chalk it up to ignorance.

I beg to differ,ignorance can be overcome with education. Arrogance is an attitude that is derived from a lack of compassion and openness in understanding. An attitude of superiority due to a lack of ones ability to adequately communicate with others. Just my humble opinion.

 

[HK4U]

I beg to differ,ignorance can be overcome with education. Arrogance is an attitude that is derived from a lack of compassion and openness in understanding. An attitude of superiority due to a lack of ones ability to adequately communicate with others. Just my humble opinion.

I agree ignorance can be overcome. As a matter of fact Will Rogers once made the staement, "Everyone is ignorant only on differant subjects". However to overcome ignorance one must first admit he or she is ignorant and then be willing to take steps to correct it.

 

[toenail]

The safest thing in this respect would be to just not go to church. leasantry:

please explain.

 

[toenail]

I carry in church all the time.

 

[HK4U]

please explain.

Please don't get him started.:fie:

 

[theicemanmpls]

Please don't get him started.:fie:

I have mixxed feelings about packing a pistol in a church, when I have to go to them.
100 plus unarmed sheep comes to mind. Perfect targets for the lone gunman.
The other side is respect. People are there to worship their god. Bringing in a weapon that is made to kill, could be considered disrespectful.

C&L, Please ignore toe. I will explain later.

 

[HootmonSccy]

I have mixxed feelings about packing a pistol in a church, when I have to go to them.
100 plus unarmed sheep comes to mind. Perfect targets for the lone gunman.
The other side is respect. People are there to worship their god. Bringing in a weapon that is made to kill, could be considered disrespectful.

C&L, Please ignore toe. I will explain later.

Going with your 1st thought ..
Sheep..
All Sheep need a shepherds because they are defenseless animals. Just consider me, and others like me, as Shepherds. We are their to protect our selves and in turn, under some circumstances, to protect others in the process...
Where I live, even if it were legal, I would NOT open carry in Church, as it might cause people to be distracted from the purpose of being their (the worship of God), and I do my best to never distract others in church... However. I have NO issue with Carrying concealed in a church.. Nobody knows, (IF nobody knows but me, my wife and God, then I do not believe it is disrespectful) and I'm much more protected, and others might benefit one day from me being their.. Just consider me a Fire Extinguisher.. Just waiting in the wings, for an opportunity that I hope NEVER comes..

 

[Regular_Joe]

I have not been though this mostly because it is not illegal to carry in church on Sundays in Florida..

Wow...Hoot, I have read through your reply a few times and greatly appreciate the step-by-step detail! Your approach comes from the perspective of meeting a need as opposed to changing the culture - which will actually match up with my pastor's personality.

Our church is fairly new and small (5 years old, +/- 350 ppl) and most of the folks are used to guns with regards to hunting or target shooting - defensive use/carry is a step further. Although, there are numerous news stories that justify carrying in church.

Excellent advice, Hoot - thanks again!

 

[Regular_Joe]

Unfortunately, here in Georgia, it's still a misdemeanor to carry into a place of worship. To try and persuade your pastor and congregation you may want to explain to them that church's aren't always safe. Here's a few recent news articles on shootings at church's that may help:

Link Removed

Richmond church shooting victims aid police - SFGate

Suspects sought in California church shooting - CNN.com

Perfect - thanks!!!

 

[Regular_Joe]

The safest thing in this respect would be to just not go to church. leasantry:

Appreciate the option, but should I also stay away from the store, park, gas station, movie theater...?

 

[Regular_Joe]

If it's illegal to carry in church and you wish to attend, don't carry. The key word is ILLEGAL. I don't live in a state with such ridiculous laws, nor would I. As for attending church, it's no different than anywhere else I go, I carry. Carrying concealed is my personal business. I don't go around telling anyone that I carry, nor do I care what anyone else thinks about it. What sense does it make to tell a pastor or anyone else that you carry, let alone ask if they approve? We're not children.

Thanks - in VA it isn't illegal to carry in a place of worship, it just needs to be justified. What makes it illegal in my case is that our church meets in a public school, a gun free zone where only bad guys are allowed to carry in church.

 

[HootmonSccy]

Wow...Hoot, I have read through your reply a few times and greatly appreciate the step-by-step detail! Your approach comes from the perspective of meeting a need as opposed to changing the culture - which will actually match up with my pastor's personality.

Our church is fairly new and small (5 years old, +/- 350 ppl) and most of the folks are used to guns with regards to hunting or target shooting - defensive use/carry is a step further. Although, there are numerous news stories that justify carrying in church.

Excellent advice, Hoot - thanks again!

Thanx man.. I'll add a couple of more things I thought of while reading your post..
1) 350 ppl in 5 years in phenomenal..

2) I hadn't really thought about this before your post, but was sort of included in some of my prior posts..
(This is a side note) I believe church should be a place for everyone to feel comfortable to attend... With that said, the truth of the gospel should be preached and that can make each of us uncomfortable at times as the light of the word shines upon some sin or lacking in our lives. (end side note)

In Romans 14:21 (NIV) it states - It is better not to eat meat or drink wine or to do anything else that will cause your brother to fall (Stumble).

Now this is may be a stretch of the verse, but even if MOST people in your church are comfortable with guns, ALL may not be.. All the more reason for Concealed carry and having a tight lip might be the best approach.. Having a person or team on hand who act in a security roll. It shouldn't be in a heavy handed way, but the people who attend regularly may figure it out, but with NO evidence of sidearms being carried. That way the people that figure it out are probably a little more security conscience to start with and will feel more confident, and those that are gun haters or afraid of guns, or... will be none the wiser and NOT have their worship interrupted by in issue that MIGHT make them stumble... An example is just like me at my church.. I think the Pastor is the only one that has realized my activities (and he has thanked me on several occasions) and one other employee has noticed my activities but I don't think she has really realized what I'm doing as I go through the office and secure the area where the offering is counted. I do NOT believe it has crossed anyone's mind that I carry..

ANYWAYZ.. Your post made me think of it in a slightly different way and reminded me that EVEN if most people are comfortable with guns in church, there may be a few, or visitors that are NOT and that could interfere with them being touched by The Word or the worship.
By being over zealous with our rights (Letting Guns be seen/known) in church may make our brother/sister stumble from being touched by The Word, so I BELIEVE Gun Exposure should be avoided. This does NOT preclude have a men's event of going to the range if you want, but those running such an event should think about the other men who are NOT so inclined and maybe have an alternative event at the same time so they are included in a church activity.

 

[HK4U]

Going with your 1st thought ..
Sheep..
All Sheep need a shepherds because they are defenseless animals. Just consider me, and others like me, as Shepherds. We are their to protect our selves and in turn, under some circumstances, to protect others in the process...
Where I live, even if it were legal, I would NOT open carry in Church, as it might cause people to be distracted from the purpose of being their (the worship of God), and I do my best to never distract others in church... However. I have NO issue with Carrying concealed in a church.. Nobody knows, (IF nobody knows but me, my wife and God, then I do not believe it is disrespectful) and I'm much more protected, and others might benefit one day from me being their.. Just consider me a Fire Extinguisher.. Just waiting in the wings, for an opportunity that I hope NEVER comes..

+1. If the gun is concealed and one does not go around telling eveyone in the church that he or she has a gun then no one would know and there will be no way that it could or would disrupt others worship. My firearm is a non issue in regard with others ability to worship. It may however mean that they stay alive to worship next week.

 

[Regular_Joe]

Thanx man.. I'll add a couple of more things I thought of while reading your post..
1) 350 ppl in 5 years in phenomenal..

God's got a plan!

2)
(This is a side note) I believe church should be a place for everyone to feel comfortable to attend... With that said, the truth of the gospel should be preached and that can make each of us uncomfortable at times as the light of the word shines upon some sin or lacking in our lives. (end side note)

[Side note partially continued] The gospel is both offensive and merciful. I once heard a pastor state that if he wasn't offending us, he wasn't teaching us...! [/end side note]

In Romans 14:21 (NIV) it states - It is better not to eat meat or drink wine or to do anything else that will cause your brother to fall (Stumble).

I am not interested in promoting open carry just yet - I do want to help folks overcome fear and lack of knowledge regarding the topic of carrying for defensive purposes and ccw. I do have a few folks that are moving toward the 2A fight and open carry, but that is a separate activity. My goal of this post is to draw out some ideas on how to take a church culture from gun-neutral to gun-friendly. I have already coordinated a range day for a small group of folks from church. I am working on a certification for basic pistol and range safety before hosting a church wide event - just want to make sure that safety stays priority ONE.

You also make good points regarding visitors and guys that may not enjoy firearms. I need to remember this as I plan out some men's events.

 

[Regular_Joe]

Will add this: In Luke 23?) Jesus is addressing His disciples and commissioning them the second time. His words were--the first time I sent you out without cloak and rainment--this time if you do not have a sword then sell a cloak and buy one. His words-not mine. One of the disciples(probably Peter) replied -- here are two and Jesus replied "it is enough" . He did not tell him to only carry one. If it was good enough for the disciples with Jesus's blessings then it is good enough for me. Do not let some "mealy mouth" tell you that a Christian is not to carry a weapon, defend himself, or defend his family. If we do not provide for our family then we are "worse than infidels" as the Bible puts it. If you are killed/injured then you cannot provide for your family. It our responsibility to provide for them-not be carried by six. When Nehemiah was rebuilding the walls of Jerusalem they carried their weapons with them. We are told to keep our "bow arms" strong. We are not supposed to be victims but victorious both in spirit and in flesh.

I will be studying Nehemiah 4 tonight because of this post - thanks for sharing!