Carry in church vs. church culture


R

Regular_Joe

New member
VA law states that state citizens can't carry into a "place of worship while a meeting for religious purposes is being held" unless the person has a "good and sufficient reason".

My church meets in a public school, so carrying is not a legal option. We are planning to move into a permanent location in the future so I am sure many folks will find that a "good and sufficient reason" is the safety of self and family.

However, our senior pastor - who often sets church culture - does not have a background that involves firearms nor is he comfortable even talking about the issue. I know folks will CC, but the attitude will remain negative towards the use of firearms for self defense.

For those that have been through this or that live in places where the church leadership is more 2A supportive, any suggestions on how this church culture can be influenced to be 2A-friendly?
 

I have not been though this mostly because it is not illegal to carry in church on Sundays in Florida..

However, One thing you might want to do is take the time to do some research and pull up a half dozen articles of Security breaches at churches along with one or two with gunfire attacks in churches. You may also want to see if any of the Christian sites have articles on Safety and Security.

Then set up a meeting and ask your pastor "Since we are moving in to our own sanctuary, I'm sure there are many procedural items you have been thinking through. Nursery school set ups, clean up before and after services, parking, etc. What thoughts have you had in relation to the safety and security of the congregation?"
Whatever their response is -
Well I haven't really thought about that
I don't really think we need security
etc..

Then remind them that everyone in the area knows that there is cash coming into the building every Sunday morning. Economic times are hard and desperate people do desperate things.

Then say something like, "Well you know that I love it hear and all of the leadership and people who attend, so safety and security is of concern to me for all of us. I've taken the time to print out a few articles about other churches that did NOT take the time to think about safety and security as well as a couple of other articles. Why don't you take a little time to look these over and why don't we get back together in about a week?"

You never know.. What his reaction will be, but don't over push, just let the facts speak for themselves and make yourself available.. What ever studying you do in advance may come in handy.. I wouldn't make it JUST a gun issue, but as I said Safety & Security. They may come back to you and ask for suggestions.. YOU better have thought about it.. (Lighting, Fire Extinguishers, Who is responsible for locking the doors after every service, etc)... After you can show your genuine concern for the congregation, and build some trust, then broach the subject of "Real Security"...

Just so you know, I used to be a deacon at my church (before I got my CCW). Since then, When ever I am at church, the pastor sees me, just before service, go into the office area and make sure all of the doors are locked and securely closed. (we have a main outside door, two pass through bathroom doors, and a side outside door (the latter the band folks almost always leave ajar). Although my Pastor and I have never talked about this, he has thanked me on several occasions. Because of my actions, I think the trust that I have established already would go a long way in a conversation about guns at church, should the subject ever arise.( Remember in Florida I do NOT need my pastors permission to carry in church)
 
Ron & Hoot gave you some great advice!
I suggest taking their suggestions to heart.

Then, I'd suggest finding other like minded people and visiting their churches; if your Pastor still has an issue with CC.

They're a LOT of pastors and churches out there who welcome CC in their churches. (Just start asking around.)
 
My church and pastor is pretty much gun friendly and many including staff members are armed. I think all the church shootings over the last few years including the Wedgewood Baptest Church shooting in the late 90's here has helped to change a lot of pastors oppinions. Do a google search on the Wedgewood shooting and show it to your pastor. In Texas churches are gun free zones but the church has to post the "offical 30.06 sign" to make carrying unlawfull. I doubt many if any do.
 
Most of the pastors I know are gun friendly and some carry like I do. Several yrs ago a Bostonian moved into this end of the county. He was very liberal. We became friends regardless and now he is a full fledged survivalist. He and his wife have CCPs, they store food, ammo, have a 4-wheel drive, "gator", and different styles of rifles. He is a "supply" pastor and made the comment early on that if I carried in his church he would ask me to leave. LOL, I told him he would not have to for I would not be there to begin with. My my, how he has morphed and for the better. I recently gave him a splitting maul to work up his wood with. Proud to have been a part of his transformation.
 
If it's illegal to carry in church and you wish to attend, don't carry. The key word is ILLEGAL. I don't live in a state with such ridiculous laws, nor would I. As for attending church, it's no different than anywhere else I go, I carry. Carrying concealed is my personal business. I don't go around telling anyone that I carry, nor do I care what anyone else thinks about it. What sense does it make to tell a pastor or anyone else that you carry, let alone ask if they approve? We're not children.
 
Ringo said:
Carrying concealed is my personal business. I don't go around telling anyone that I carry, nor do I care what anyone else thinks about it.
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+1. Reminds me of the patriot guard guy who felt compelled to announce his CCW status to the LEO, or the various CCW badge and ID threads that get started from time to time. What a bunch of nonsense. People who feel the need to wear their CCW status on their sleeve are disturbed and should really think twice about what they are doing out there before they get themselves or someone else hurt.

If it's that big a deal either leave it at home or don't go to church. But whatever you do, don't make a public issue out of it.
 
Cocked _and_Locked said:
+1. Reminds me of the patriot guard guy who felt compelled to announce his CCW status to the LEO, or the various CCW badge and ID threads that get started from time to time. What a bunch of nonsense. People who feel the need to wear their CCW status on their sleeve are disturbed and should really think twice about what they are doing out there before they get themselves or someone else hurt.

If it's that big a deal either leave it at home or don't go to church. But whatever you do, don't make a public issue out of it.
Click to expand...
The women really like my CCW badge. They tell me all the time how manly it makes me look. One even remarked, "is that a gun in your pocket, or are you just happy to see me?"
 
Our church is VERY gun friendly. Even though it's not made public many people every service are armed. One thing that we do that I think helps break the taboo about guns is have outing and men’s fellowships to the range. In the cooler months, several times a year the men get together, have breakfast, and head out to one of outdoor ranges. Several of us bring a nice selection of firearms and we spend the day shooting. You may want to talk to the pastor about heading up something like that.


Best of luck....
 
KimberPB said:
Our church is VERY gun friendly. Even though it's not made public many people every service are armed. One thing that we do that I think helps break the taboo about guns is have outing and men’s fellowships to the range. In the cooler months, several times a year the men get together, have breakfast, and head out to one of outdoor ranges. Several of us bring a nice selection of firearms and we spend the day shooting. You may want to talk to the pastor about heading up something like that.


Best of luck....
Click to expand...


Same thing at our church.
Our church school even has a championship "skeet" team; where elementary to high school students compete.
 
One thing that people tend to forget is that in most churches the Pastor is not the ruling authority of the church and in too many cases the Pastor also forgets this. Here in SC carrying in a church is illegal without permission of the ruling body of the church which would be the Deacons, Session, Elders or whatever term is used. It would help to get the Pastor on our side which would make it much easier but one would also have to convince the ruling board also or have the board overrule the Pastor. In our church most of the members (at least the male members) are hunters or have been around guns all their lives but I don't know if any actually carry regularly. However we did have a CWP instructor come and speak at one of our Men of the Church dinners so it isn't like there is much anti sentiment.

For the most part I find little anti gun sentiment in the community but little activisim toward liberalizing the laws. I did have one Sheriff tell me that he estimated that 50% of all men over 60 in his county carried a gun in their pocket but few had permits or were in any mood to get one. The basic thought is behave yourself and don't worry about it.
 
Regular_Joe said:
VA law states that state citizens can't carry into a "place of worship while a meeting for religious purposes is being held" unless the person has a "good and sufficient reason".

My church meets in a public school, so carrying is not a legal option. We are planning to move into a permanent location in the future so I am sure many folks will find that a "good and sufficient reason" is the safety of self and family.

However, our senior pastor - who often sets church culture - does not have a background that involves firearms nor is he comfortable even talking about the issue. I know folks will CC, but the attitude will remain negative towards the use of firearms for self defense.

For those that have been through this or that live in places where the church leadership is more 2A supportive, any suggestions on how this church culture can be influenced to be 2A-friendly?
Click to expand...

I am almost positive that our church would not like the fact that I carry anytime I go there, but I don't care. That chuch in Colorado, that got attacked about two years ago, is why I carry there. I don't know of any city ordanances that prohibit CC in churches here, but I still carry there.
 
Cocked _and_Locked said:
+1. Reminds me of the patriot guard guy who felt compelled to announce his CCW status to the LEO, or the various CCW badge and ID threads that get started from time to time. What a bunch of nonsense. People who feel the need to wear their CCW status on their sleeve are disturbed and should really think twice about what they are doing out there before they get themselves or someone else hurt.

If it's that big a deal either leave it at home or don't go to church. But whatever you do, don't make a public issue out of it.
Click to expand...


What part of CC does the OP not understand. I can appreciate asking for permission but my CC is not up for discussion, Nor is it anyone business.
 
Back when I lived in NC several of us carried in church every Sunday.
The pastor encouraged this as he was very security aware.
Since I now live in SC I don't carry but have thought about approaching the pastor here, I think it may be already happening as the church has "security people" I will likely wait until I am a little more involved in functions before broaching the subject.:biggrin:
 
So tell me again what the purpose of the "religion & guns" forum is? I thought certain people didn't want discussion of religion. In fact, they seemed to hate it. So, what the hell are they doing in this forum? One of 'em disparaged going to church and the other made a crude joke regarding the size of his manhood. I must be missing something.
 
Safebustr said:
Back when I lived in NC several of us carried in church every Sunday.
The pastor encouraged this as he was very security aware.
Since I now live in SC I don't carry but have thought about approaching the pastor here, I think it may be already happening as the church has "security people" I will likely wait until I am a little more involved in functions before broaching the subject.:biggrin:
Click to expand...
Why don't you just ask whoever heads up the Security people, what does it take to be a part of the team??
 
Just another victim disarmament zone. If posting places as off-limits to firearms would deter anyone then why don't we just take it another step and put up signs in dark alleys that say "No Crime Allowed"?
 
The Southern Bapt. Convention just OK'd CCP holders carrying in church. Was at a deacon's meeting when it was announced by a delegate. I chuckled and told them that I had been carrying for 8-10 years. No one had any idea that I did. There are several of the church body that carry and I have a buddy pastor that carries all the time also.
 
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