Are we Losing the Gun Control Debate?

longslide10

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The Left Coast Signals Yes!


You win some and you lose some. I remember my coach telling me that after a particularly close match at the state championships. The loss was heartbreaking, but I was able to turn it into a positive. I rededicated my efforts, trained harder and made sure my head was on straight for the next tournament. Stories such as these are everywhere, and just fine for a boxer, wrestler or an archer, a baseball or football team. However, when it comes to gun control, we cannot afford to lose a single fight.

For several years, the pro-Second Amendment forces have secured several victories. Despite the efforts of our President and the Antis, National organizations such as the NRA, NAGR, Second Amendment Foundation and numerous other grass roots organizations have successfully squashed each challenge to the Second Amendment on a federal level. Additionally, we have made great strides in expanding—or as most would believe—regaining our Second Amendment rights.

Every state now allows concealed carry—at least to some degree. Many states now allow open carry. Several bans for firearm type or magazine capacity have been struck down or defeated before they have passed. In addition to grass roots efforts, our victories may largely be attributed to more money and better organization than the gun control crowd, but that is about to change.

Washington

A tidal wave of anti-gun legislation and policy is forming. We can see it across the left coast (California, Oregon and Washington) and it is set to wash over the country. Last November, Washington passed I-594 with 59 percent. The legislation created universal background checks for all firearms sales, including those made online or at gun shows. It also covered any firearm transfers including many loans and gifts. The measure has exceptions for emergency gun transfers concerning personal safety, gifts between family members, antiques and loans for hunting.

However, the law was murky and ripe for legal challenge. The Second Amendment Foundation took the torch, but a federal judge tossed the suit last week. The reasoning is almost absurd. The pro-Second Amendment crowd in Washington has been vocal in their dissent, but also vocal that they would not intentionally disobey the law. U.S. District Judge Benjamin Settle in Tacoma ruled that opponents of the law didn’t have standing to challenge the law because no one had been prosecuted under the law and they could not show they were at immediate risk because law enforcement had not attempted to charge someone using the law. In the judge’s defense, his hands do seem to have been legally tied.

“Plaintiffs explicitly concede that they have no intention of violating I-594, Plaintiffs have failed to allege any specific warning or threat to initiate a prosecution, and Plaintiffs have failed to allege any history of past prosecution or enforcement of I-594,” Settle wrote.

Several law enforcement officials have said they won’t consider simply handing a gun to someone else a “transfer” requiring a background check under the law, but the law’s opponents insist that’s not clear. It would only take one officer to take a different read on the law and some poor gun owner is going to have to pay hundreds of thousands of dollars to prove innocence. Alan Gottlieb, a co-founder of the Second Amendment Foundation, said he expected to appeal.

“It’s mind-boggling that a citizen must put their civil rights, not to mention their clean criminal record, at risk for the court to rule on the constitutionality of the law. You should be able to challenge an attack on your constitutional rights without having to go to jail first. The state has gotten away with this because they haven’t prosecuted anybody. Why do we have a law on the books that nobody is prosecuting?” said Gottlieb.

Oregon Expanding Background Checks


Another example of new losses in the battle for the Second Amendment comes from Oregon. Governor Kate Brown signed Senate Bill 941, otherwise known as the Oregon Firearms Safety Act in early May 2015. SB 941 will greatly expand background checks on firearm transfers in the state. SB941 will extend background checks to nearly all gun sales, including those done privately. With the enactment of SB 941, Oregon will become the eighth state with some form of “universal” background check law.

SB 941 supporters include all of the usual gun control suspects such as Everytown for Gun Safety and the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence, which argued that expanded background checks would keep guns out of the hands of criminals.

“This is a huge victory that will save lives in Oregon by keeping guns out of the hands of criminals and dangerous people who will no longer be able to exploit the vast ‘Internet loophole’ to buy guns for cash in back alleys without a Brady background check. Lives will be saved as a result,” said Dan Gross, President of the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence, in a press release. “It shows the nation the kind of real progress we can make when elected leaders put the interests of the citizens ahead of the radical agenda of the corporate gun lobby.”

Conclusion

We all know the vast majority of criminals get their guns through theft, the black market, straw purchases or from friends and family members. The law serves to do little more than making lawbreakers out of average citizens while burdening an already over-tasked legal system. While some may believe Oregon has always been a liberal state, they need to consider this is the first significant gun control law passed in the Beaver State in nearly 14 years.


With any luck and a lot of hard work, supporters of the bill may find their victory short-lived. Petitions are currently underway to recall three of the lawmakers who supported the legislation, including House Majority Leader Val Hoyle (D-Eugene). Recalling these lawmakers would be a great start, but it did change the laws in Colorado. Either way, the tidal wave building in the West is real and a danger that needs to be stopped before it spreads.

So, I ask you, are we becoming complacent, believing states such as Washington and Oregon are safe from new gun control measures? Has the opposition taken the fight to a level we are not defending? How do we secure our rights and continue to defeat the assaults from the gun control crowd?


Are we Losing the Gun Control Debate? The Left Coast Signals Yes!
 
Part of the problem, in my opinion, is the lack of enforcement of the new law. Thousands of retail stores across Washington state, including Wal Mart, are selling "firearms" as defined in Washington law right off the shelves to customers who walk out with them - no background check performed as required by the law, the second such sale by the store being a felony - and the Attorney General of Washington won't do anything to enforce it because that would be admitting the ridiculous of the law.
 
"Are we Losing the Gun Control Debate?"

The "debate" has been over since at least 1934 with passage of the National Firearms Act. If it wasn't over then, then it was most certainly over when the Supreme Court declared that a short-barreled shotgun was not a "militia" or "military-type" firearm, at the time the Second Amendment was written in the first 2A challenge to NFA34, U.S. v. Miller five years later. Miller was a farce on so many levels, not the least of which was that he was dead by the time the court heard the case, and only one side was even argued before the Court - the government's side, but the case proved that the 2A was as dead as Miller was in the tyrannical ruling that came out of it, and proved also that Supreme Court "justices" could be every bit the traitorous bastards as their executive and congressional counterparts were (and still are in all three branches).

A much more profoundly difficult question to answer is, read only the words of the Second Amendment, apply the most literal and commonly understood meanings to them all, and answer for yourself which of them still has any valid meanings left to "debate" over? Or another way to ask it is, if I believe it's dead and you disagree, then using the same literal and commonly understood meanings of the words, which ones are still "alive," if any?

I enjoyed reading the piece in the OP. It is well-written and the subject-matter is definitely timely and pertinent. But by the time I got to the end I was thinking the guy was just oblivious to what has already happened in the "debate" over the 2nd Amendment. The debate isn't over whether or not UBCs or loaning your friend a gun to shoot at the range for a day constitutes a legal transfer. We all know that government has ignored the 2A and given itself the authority to make and enforce such tyranny with impunity. The only debate that's left is whether or not The People are willing to pull their triggers to defeat such tyranny, to replace impunity with severe punitive consequences for their treachery? At this point, I am all but certain that that debate is dead too.

Blues
 
It's interesting the anti-gun groups are stating Oregon will be a safer place because of SB941. The supporters of SB 941 admit this law will make little to no difference when it comes to gun violence, but they had to do something. The reason it was pushed as a safety bill is so they could run it through the legislature and prevent it ending up and a ballot for voters to way in. They knew voters would kill this bill if they got a chance. Typical political party power grab.
 
The pro-Second Amendment crowd in Washington has been vocal in their dissent, but also vocal that they would not intentionally disobey the law.

He obviously didn't go to the I Will Not Comply rally... Or ask any Washington resident what they were going to do...this law is meaningless to 99% of gun owners in eastern Washington....we do not follow it.

How long do they have to poke the beast before it bites back?
 
He obviously didn't go to the I Will Not Comply rally... Or ask any Washington resident what they were going to do...this law is meaningless to 99% of gun owners in eastern Washington....we do not follow it.

How long do they have to poke the beast before it bites back?

Almost two years later, and still there are ~80,000 gun-owners refusing to comply with CT's Intolerable Act. Estimates as high as 90% noncompliance for the demand to register weapons and "high capacity magazines" still thumb the noses of those owners towards the tyrants who would unconstitutionally impose their will upon them through threat of force. Thousands, maybe tens of thousands, of banned "freedom-fighter-grade" magazines, along with banned ammo to fill them with, have been smuggled in and distributed amongst those committed to keeping the noncompliance going until the bitter end, and the "Toys for Tyrants" campaign still pokes the beasts of government in CT, CO, NY, MD, WA and now OR. (I realize that was not the beast-poking you were referring to, but it might be the humble beginnings of the "biting back" that you were referring to.)

That's all great, and I support those efforts in every way I can, because though I do believe that the world as we know it is coming to an end in short order, I also believe that it is my duty to oppose tyrants while God still gives me breath. He made us so that we can walk and chew gum at the same time. We can prepare spiritually for the Blessed Hope while we continue our "normal" lives, whatever that means to whomever is reading this. For me, "normal" is standing against tyranny. But it is also being honest with myself, and with any discourse I participate in. So nothing is changed between this post and the last. The Constitution and all the amendments in the Bill of Rights are dead, and aren't coming back, but that doesn't relieve me of my duty to an oath I took more than 40 years ago to continue to protect, preserve and defend them whilst I'm still here.

Methinks that there was some Divine intervention in my landing in Henry County, Alabama at this time in both my life and the life of this once-great country. Henry County is so-named after Patrick Henry, the great orator and Founding Father who exhorted his Virginia compatriots to begin to mobilize citizen militias in every county, even as most of his contemporaries were still trying to reconcile and/or get along with King George III. His "Give me liberty, or give me death" speech in 1775 is viewed by history to be a turning point in the recruiting efforts for the Revolutionary Army/militia, but that one phrase, though profound and succinct, overshadows the truly eloquent and balanced speech that preceded it, which gave honor to God throughout, while at the same time expressing his human inherent nature of being a freedom fighter.

I was looking for something else when I ran across this for the umpteenth time during the 20+ years I've been online, but it seemed apropos here even more so than what I was looking for, so I'm just going to republish Patrick Henry's speech and hope that some get as much inspiration from as I do every time I read it. Here ya go:

St. John's Church, Richmond, Virginia
March 23, 1775.



MR. PRESIDENT: No man thinks more highly than I do of the patriotism, as well as abilities, of the very worthy gentlemen who have just addressed the House. But different men often see the same subject in different lights; and, therefore, I hope it will not be thought disrespectful to those gentlemen if, entertaining as I do, opinions of a character very opposite to theirs, I shall speak forth my sentiments freely, and without reserve. This is no time for ceremony. The question before the House is one of awful moment to this country. For my own part, I consider it as nothing less than a question of freedom or slavery; and in proportion to the magnitude of the subject ought to be the freedom of the debate. It is only in this way that we can hope to arrive at truth, and fulfil the great responsibility which we hold to God and our country. Should I keep back my opinions at such a time, through fear of giving offence, I should consider myself as guilty of treason towards my country, and of an act of disloyalty toward the majesty of heaven, which I revere above all earthly kings.

Mr. President, it is natural to man to indulge in the illusions of hope. We are apt to shut our eyes against a painful truth, and listen to the song of that siren till she transforms us into beasts. Is this the part of wise men, engaged in a great and arduous struggle for liberty? Are we disposed to be of the number of those who, having eyes, see not, and, having ears, hear not, the things which so nearly concern their temporal salvation? For my part, whatever anguish of spirit it may cost, I am willing to know the whole truth; to know the worst, and to provide for it.

I have but one lamp by which my feet are guided; and that is the lamp of experience. I know of no way of judging of the future but by the past. And judging by the past, I wish to know what there has been in the conduct of the British ministry for the last ten years, to justify those hopes with which gentlemen have been pleased to solace themselves, and the House? Is it that insidious smile with which our petition has been lately received? Trust it not, sir; it will prove a snare to your feet. Suffer not yourselves to be betrayed with a kiss. Ask yourselves how this gracious reception of our petition comports with these war-like preparations which cover our waters and darken our land. Are fleets and armies necessary to a work of love and reconciliation? Have we shown ourselves so unwilling to be reconciled, that force must be called in to win back our love? Let us not deceive ourselves, sir. These are the implements of war and subjugation; the last arguments to which kings resort. I ask, gentlemen, sir, what means this martial array, if its purpose be not to force us to submission? Can gentlemen assign any other possible motive for it? Has Great Britain any enemy, in this quarter of the world, to call for all this accumulation of navies and armies? No, sir, she has none. They are meant for us; they can be meant for no other. They are sent over to bind and rivet upon us those chains which the British ministry have been so long forging. And what have we to oppose to them? Shall we try argument? Sir, we have been trying that for the last ten years. Have we anything new to offer upon the subject? Nothing. We have held the subject up in every light of which it is capable; but it has been all in vain. Shall we resort to entreaty and humble supplication? What terms shall we find which have not been already exhausted? Let us not, I beseech you, sir, deceive ourselves. Sir, we have done everything that could be done, to avert the storm which is now coming on. We have petitioned; we have remonstrated; we have supplicated; we have prostrated ourselves before the throne, and have implored its interposition to arrest the tyrannical hands of the ministry and Parliament. Our petitions have been slighted; our remonstrances have produced additional violence and insult; our supplications have been disregarded; and we have been spurned, with contempt, from the foot of the throne. In vain, after these things, may we indulge the fond hope of peace and reconciliation. There is no longer any room for hope. If we wish to be free² if we mean to preserve inviolate those inestimable privileges for which we have been so long contending²if we mean not basely to abandon the noble struggle in which we have been so long engaged, and which we have pledged ourselves never to abandon until the glorious object of our contest shall be obtained, we must fight! I repeat it, sir, we must fight! An appeal to arms and to the God of Hosts is all that is left us!

They tell us, sir, that we are weak; unable to cope with so formidable an adversary. But when shall we be stronger? Will it be the next week, or the next year? Will it be when we are totally disarmed, and when a British guard shall be stationed in every house? Shall we gather strength by irresolution and inaction? Shall we acquire the means of effectual resistance, by lying supinely on our backs, and hugging the delusive phantom of hope, until our enemies shall have bound us hand and foot? Sir, we are not weak if we make a proper use of those means which the God of nature hath placed in our power. Three millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us. Besides, sir, we shall not fight our battles alone. There is a just God who presides over the destinies of nations; and who will raise up friends to fight our battles for us. The battle, sir, is not to the strong alone; it is to the vigilant, the active, the brave. Besides, sir, we have no election. If we were base enough to desire it, it is now too late to retire from the contest. There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! Our chains are forged! Their clanking may be heard on the plains of Boston! The war is inevitable²and let it come! I repeat it, sir, let it come.

It is in vain, sir, to extenuate the matter. Gentlemen may cry, Peace, Peace²but there is no peace. The war is actually begun! The next gale that sweeps from the north will bring to our ears the clash of resounding arms! Our brethren are already in the field! Why stand we here idle? What is it that gentlemen wish? What would they have? Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God! I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty or give me death!
 
Everywhere ELSE, the gun control cult is in headlong retreat, like the French army before an army of Stahlhelm wearing Godzillas.

Here in Ohio, it's gun control Nomonhan. We're Zhukov and the gun control freaks are the Japanese, charging tanks with bayonets... and the charges are getting fewer and fewer as time goes on.
 
Everywhere ELSE, the gun control cult is in headlong retreat, like the French army before an army of Stahlhelm wearing Godzillas.

Here in Ohio, it's gun control Nomonhan. We're Zhukov and the gun control freaks are the Japanese, charging tanks with bayonets... and the charges are getting fewer and fewer as time goes on.

"Everywhere" else? "Headlong" retreat? I seriously doubt it. Regrouping, laying in wait for the next Sandy Hook or Aurora-style event is more like it methinks. National reciprocity will solidify and centralize carry issues at the federal level, and the same antis that helped Clinton pass the Brady Bill (N R A etc.) are busily helping the faux conservatives of Congress establish federal control over them as we type. Whatever trend Ohio is leaning towards right now will be meaningless once the feds get their hooks into carry issues. Nobody is in retreat except gun owners who can't see the forest of the Constitution for the trees of their own selfish wants and desires.

Blues
 
Someone should literally slap the crap out of the anti-gun feminazi police chief too. Doesn't she understand her job would actually be easier if more people owned and carried guns in the District of Criminals?
Yes to your first part but no to the second. She is just too dumb to understand. And the same with most in DC.
 
No, we are not losing the debate. More and more, pro-gun laws are being passed than anti. I-594, here in Washington is a farce. It matters not how many people vote for something, if it is unconstitutional, it is not a law. I-594 won because Michael Bloomberg and the Microsoft Stooges spent millions on a campaign of lies and deceit that tugged at the heartstrings, and hid the true purpose of the Initiative. FYI, in Lewis County, I 591 received 75 % of the votes, so it is by no means universally popular. On December 13 of the same year, over 25,000 supporters attended a rally on the Capital lawn, protesting the so-called 'law,' Our new sheriff and the District Attorney in Lewis County have made no secret they will not prosecute any I-594 case, and most gun shops in Lewis Count are not charging for the required procedures forced on us by I-594. Interestingly, the Washington State Patrol officers at the rally had no problem mingling with 25,000 gun-toting citizens, and there was not one argument or fight, and the lawn of our capital was spotless when we left. How many anti-gunners can speak about being so respectful?
 
Murdock v. Pennsylvania, 319 US 105

No state shall convert a liberty into a privilege, license it, and attach a fee to it.
A state may not impose a charge for the enjoyment of a right granted by the Federal constitution. at 113, (1943).


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Murdock v. Pennsylvania, 319 US 105

No state shall convert a liberty into a privilege, license it, and attach a fee to it.
A state may not impose a charge for the enjoyment of a right granted by the Federal constitution. at 113, (1943).


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The problem with that cite from Murdock is the language used. It says that rights are "granted" by the Constitution, when the fact of the matter is that our rights are inherent and preexisted the Constitution since the beginning of time. That the SCOTUS says they are granted by government is another step towards tyranny, as what government grants, government can take away. SCOTUS legitimized that axiom in Murdock with the use of that one word. It is not helpful to the cause of liberty in my view.

Blues
 
Obama looks to the U.N. always for support for his goals for America.

Create the impression that violence and insurrection are legitimate aspects of the American tradition; that students and special-interest groups should rise up and use "united force" to solve economic, political or social problems. These “uprisings” are well funded by George Soros, who is unapologetically Communist. Repeal the "Connally Amendment" ( The Connally Amendment amended the U.S. ratification of the U.N. charter to bar the International Court of Justice from having jurisdiction over domestic matters "as determined by the United States") so the United States cannot prevent the World Court from seizing jurisdiction [over domestic problems. Give the World Court jurisdiction] over nations and individuals alike. It may well be that this is at the heart of Jade Helm 15, and that BHO plans to allow the World Court to have jurisdiction in the U.S. to help to quench any uprising. It's more than likely that this is how he will attempt to disarm us.
 

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