XD40scinNC
New member
No, your self-inflicted hypocrisy was merely good for a chuckle.
Concealed carrier chosen as victim #1
- Thread starter Firefighterchen
- Start date
No, your self-inflicted hypocrisy was merely good for a chuckle.
Firefighterchen
OC for Tactical Advantage
God blessed me with a whole box just for you bud.
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BC1
,
I don't think CC gives anyone the element of surprise. That edge is tactical in nature and often involves breaking the OODA loop. Breaking the OODA loop works well in PP even where there's no weapon involved at all.
I think the biggest surprise a criminal gets today is just to encounter a victim that is willing to fight back. Everywhere we turn there is someone, usually from some form of government agency, that tells us that we should strive to be helpless, defenseless and submissive victims who do nothing more than trust the government to take care of us.
Firefighterchen
OC for Tactical Advantage
Quiet Observer
Member
The article and TV report leave out a lot of detail that might be used to evaluate the gunfight. His best course of action might have been to allow the robbery to take place and then report it to the police. The cost of his care will far exceed the money and value of the items. Even with OC could he have drawn and fired accurately before the robber got off a shot. The other 2 robbers could have been carrying weapons. We do not know where the women were standing. They could have been hit by a stray bullet, if several shots were exchanged. The TV mentions the robber displaying, not pointing, the gun. What actually happened? Did the victim believe that the robber was about to shoot the women, or was he just defending money, property, and pride? I am not making a judgment either way. Did the robber fire in response to the first shot, or did he plan to shoot anyway? Did the victim fire more than one shot, or did he pause after the first one? We do not know the timing between the leg shot and chest shot.
BC1
,
I don't think anyone can make a valid argument as to what groups are attacked more than others. It's anecdotal at best. Based on what? Where? When? There's no accurate data source. On any given day, any given perp may attack any given person. I wouldn't credit some meth-head tweeker with having smarts when Flaco doesn't know what planet he's on.
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There are no hard and fast rules on what any perp will do. Sometimes Flaco is tweeked out, doesn't see the gun or knows it's there and doesn't care. See Flaco was born with fetal-alcohol syndrome because his mother drank, smoked dope and tweeked while she was pregnant. So Flaco lacks frontal lobe development. He cannot control impulses, fits of rage or anger and his judgment ability is severely impaired. Flaco doesn’t know what planet he's on. And despite where he lives, he shops in the same Wally-World as we do.
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There are no hard and fast rules on what any perp will do. Sometimes Flaco is tweeked out, doesn't see the gun or knows it's there and doesn't care. See Flaco was born with fetal-alcohol syndrome because his mother drank, smoked dope and tweeked while she was pregnant. So Flaco lacks frontal lobe development. He cannot control impulses, fits of rage or anger and his judgment ability is severely impaired. Flaco doesn’t know what planet he's on. And despite where he lives, he shops in the same Wally-World as we do.
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Bikenut
Guest
What is amazing is it is very easy to find many incidents where concealed carriers are attacked and very difficult to find more than a very few incidents where open carriers are attacked. Yes, I know folks say there are more concealed carriers than open carriers and I have no doubt that is true... yet, on the other hand, people have been open carrying in just Arizona for decades, not just a few years but decades!, and it is still hard to find more than a few very rare incidents ...not just in Arizona but nation wide!...where open carriers have been attacked.
Some folks say it is impossible to prove a negative but when something isn't happening that negative still is proof it isn't happening.
BluesStringer
Les Brers
And even if one isn't comfortable accepting that lack of it happening is "proof" of it not happening, certainly the fact that it so-rarely happens that OC'ers are attacked because they are OC'ers, demonstrates that there's at least a potential that OC has a deterrent effect against being chosen as a victim.
Choosing and employing one's tactics is a process of evaluating probabilities and potentialities. As with any evaluation of data, if you have garbage going in, you'll have garbage coming out. If "proof" of the efficacy of a tactical decision were required before someone should be supported, or around here, even tolerated, for implementing that decision, then it wouldn't be a tactical decision made of free men at all, it would be employment of rote procedures as-dictated by some "Self-Defense Czar" not of the free man's choosing. For example, Massad Ayoob or other CC-only biased commentators who are cited around here far too often to substantiate completely made-up claims that OC'ers will be shot first, there's an "element of surprise advantage" to CC or whatever.
The "proof" of tactics is in the outcome of their deployment, not the evaluation and/or development processes of choosing one tactic over another.
It is bizarre to me that this subject is a never-ending "debate." There are no predictive answers, only outcomes, and considering the available data, I'm perfectly happy and confident in my decision to OC. Why on Earth would anyone debate the prudence of my tactical decisions considering that?
Blues
XD40scinNC
New member
The assumption that the sight of a gun will dissuade a criminal from carrying out their plan gives way too much credit to the intelligence of the bad guy. They are going to be scared to the point they observe little and easily make stupid mistakes, even for a stupid crook.
Don't Rob A Convenience Store With A Cop Standing Right Behind You ? Consumerist
Don't Rob A Convenience Store With A Cop Standing Right Behind You ? Consumerist
BC1
,
That is very possible. Short of some real stats I'm not sure we can derive anything from the news outlets reporting or failure to report. One stat I find interesting; despite the inability to CC or OC in NYC the crime rate has dropped enormously in the pas 20 years.
aacx22
Tested Selected Initiated
Its not amazing. There are far fewer open carriers so of course the numbers reflect that.
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BC1
,
Exactly!
If my openly carried handgun deters only 1 criminal out of 10,000 from attacking me or my family, than I am ahead of my gun being concealed and not deterring that 1 criminal. Of course if my openly carried handgun does deter that 1 criminal, chances are highly likely I will never be aware of it.
Firefighterchen
OC for Tactical Advantage
Impossible, the robber was suppose to shoot the cop first...it always happens that way all the time.
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Bikenut
Guest
If my open carried gun prevents an attack by a criminal and saves one child... just one child!!! (and even at age 66 I'm still my mother's child!) then it is worth it!
Niland
New member
Give it a try sometime. We all hope we are able to be as good as you think you are should the need arise, but the suspects had their weapons drawn and the Samaritan was concealed. He had to clear his holster, draw, aim and fire. He scored at least one hit and lived. May you do as well.
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