Concealed carrier chosen as victim #1

[Firefighterchen]

Link Removed

Last three days...nothing has happened to my openly carried firearm.

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[XD40scinNC]

Your link doesn't lead to any story on this, so the only info is your post.

If he was targeted because a bad guy detected he had a gun, then he wasn't concealed.

 

[Firefighterchen]

Your link doesn't lead to any story on this, so the only info is your post.

If he was targeted because a bad guy detected he had a gun, then he wasn't concealed.

Different source updated...news link wouldn't work.

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[bofh]

Link Removed

Last three days...nothing has happened to my openly carried firearm.

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Not sure what you are trying to pull here. The concealed carrier had the tactical element of surprise: Link Removed. At least that's the news story linked by the site you posted.

In any case, this story has nothing to do with open vs. concealed carry, rather with situational awareness. A car pulled up next to the victims while the concealed carrier was chaining a tire. They got robbed at gunpoint.

 

[Firefighterchen]

Not sure what you are trying to pull here. The concealed carrier had the tactical element of surprise: Link Removed. At least that's the news story linked by the site you posted.

In any case, this story has nothing to do with open vs. concealed carry, rather with situational awareness. A car pulled up next to the victims while the concealed carrier was chaining a tire. They got robbed at gunpoint.

If by surprise you mean he got shot in the chest when he drew his firearm...then yeah surprise!!!

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[bofh]

If by surprise you mean he got shot in the chest when he drew his firearm...then yeah surprise!!!

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Watch the video report at Link Removed. He drew his weapon when the robber turned to the other victims. I call that surprise.

 

[Bikenut]

About that "element of surprise" thing..........

CC and OC have the very same "element of surprise" because the "element of surprise" is really nothing more than the bad guy being "surprised" to discover his intended victim ..... has a gun.

With CC the bad guy is "surprised" to see his intended victim has a gun to defend himself with after the bad guy has already chosen his victim and the attack is already in progress and at that point seeing the gun can make the bad guy decide to stop the attack.

With OC the bad guy is "surprised" to see his intended victim has a gun to defend himself with during the bad guy's choosing a victim process and at that point seeing the gun can make the bad guy decide not to attack at all.

But either way... it was the bad guy being "surprised" to see a gun that was the actual "element of surprise".

Quite frankly... I'd prefer the bad guy be "surprised" to see my openly carried gun and decide not to attack me so I can go home and watch the 6 o'clock news coverage .... from the comfort of my easy chair..... about the CC'er who had to pull his gun and "surprise" the bad guy who attacked him.

Does OC's "element of surprise" really work? Well.... there have been thousands of folks open carrying in many States (Like Arizona) for decades! and yet accounts of folks OC'ing being attacked are rare. And you know with the anti gun media any incident involving an open carrier being attacked would be covered over and over and over yet such has not been the case in the past nor is it now.

And, in my not so humble opinion, because CC's use of the "element of surprise" is only effective after the attack has begun but OC's use of the "element of surprise" can prevent an attack from happening............. OC's use of the "element of surprise" is far superior to CC's because....

I'd much rather watch the 6 o'clock news than to BE the news.

 

[XD40scinNC]

If by surprise you mean he got shot in the chest when he drew his firearm...then yeah surprise!!!

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Link Removed
Two most likely situations if the guy had been OC.

1. shot outright because they could see the gun as they pull up.
2. bad guys would have gone on looking for an unarmed victim.

None of us can predict which scenario would have played out. After these are bad guys that don't give a damn and probably high on something or desperate to steal some money so they could feed their addiction. (Yes, you can speculate, guess, pull it out of your ass, but you cannot say to a certainty)

There is no perfect approach to self-defense, and both CC and OC win and sometimes loose in these situations, either preferable to being unarmed and totally incapable of defending your life.

This is not an OC/CC issue but as stated above a situational awareness issue, and does not further the argument of which is better.
4 male teens asking for directions? His SA meter should have been way into the danger zone. That's when you get distance between yourself the the possible threat, such as placing yourself on the other side of one of the vehicles (there were at least 3 there).

Of course what the teens were driving, or their race is not provided in the article or broadcast news.

 

[Firefighterchen]

Watch the video report at Link Removed. He drew his weapon when the robber turned to the other victims. I call that surprise.

I call it being behind the curve and getting one in the chest.

Link Removed
Two most likely situations if the guy had been OC.

1. shot outright because they could see the gun as they pull up.
2. bad guys would have gone on looking for an unarmed victim.

None of us can predict which scenario would have played out. After these are bad guys that don't give a damn and probably high on something or desperate to steal some money so they could feed their addiction. (Yes, you can speculate, guess, pull it out of your ass, but you cannot say to a certainty)

There is no perfect approach to self-defense, and both CC and OC win and sometimes loose in these situations, either preferable to being unarmed and totally incapable of defending your life.

This is not an OC/CC issue but as stated above a situational awareness issue, and does not further the argument of which is better.
4 male teens asking for directions? His SA meter should have been way into the danger zone. That's when you get distance between yourself the the possible threat, such as placing yourself on the other side of one of the vehicles (there were at least 3 there).

Of course what the teens were driving, or their race is not provided in the article or broadcast news.

I have no arguments against the sa being low...but at least this wasn't at 2 am.

As you stated, you can't predict the future, so your "most likely scenarios" are bull****.

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[XD40scinNC]

I call it being behind the curve and getting one in the chest.



I have no arguments against the sa being low...but at least this wasn't at 2 am.

As you stated, you can't predict the future, so your "most likely scenarios" are bull****.

So what do your propose as a possible scenario? Which super hero are you predicting will show up and save the day?

 

[Firefighterchen]

So what do your propose as a possible scenario? Which super hero are you predicting will show up and save the day?

Atheist-man...when he's not so busy accusing the world of his short comings and plagiarism...he's out fighting bad guys...unfortunately he has no time for the latter since the former takes up 100% of his time...

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[aacx22]

Silly premise.

You can't prove that had the person being open carrying while changing the tire, it would have resulted any differently.

 

[NavyLCDR]

Firefighterchen's point is that people who carry concealed seem to, historically, get attacked by bad guys at a higher rate than those who open carry do. For example, see this page:

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Which two states have the highest number of defensive uses of a firearm? Florida and Texas. Two states that have licensed and concealed carry only (with only minor exceptions). Although it should also be noted that Florida and Texas are also "stand your ground" and "caste doctrine" states which means that people in those states are less likely to be afraid to use their guns to defend themselves with, even though Texas has many more prohibited places than most states do.

 

[XD40scinNC]

Atheist-man...when he's not so busy accusing the world of his short comings and plagiarism...he's out fighting bad guys...unfortunately he has no time for the latter since the former takes up 100% of his time...

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So that is your scenario. Just sling more bull **** and see if any of it will stick. Well wipe your mouth, it has a brown stain.

 

[XD40scinNC]

Firefighterchen's point is that people who carry concealed seem to, historically, get attacked by bad guys at a higher rate than those who open carry do. For example, see this page:

Link Removed

Which two states have the highest number of defensive uses of a firearm? Florida and Texas. Two states that have licensed and concealed carry only (with only minor exceptions). Although it should also be noted that Florida and Texas are also "stand your ground" and "caste doctrine" states which means that people in those states are less likely to be afraid to use their guns to defend themselves with, even though Texas has many more prohibited places than most states do.

First, I like Dan's site and the defense stories he posts. But this is not a definitive data base to base conclusions on. I don't know where he lives, or his sources and how he finds these stories, which would also effect the numbers.

Second you omitted SC and AR, where guns and carry permits are easy to obtain and are CC only, yet the numbers are lower than many OC states (I chose not to include the gun unfriendly states of IL and NY which are also CC only). Nor do the figures separate the number of events that were out in public, vs. people defending themselves in their homes, where OC/CC is a moot point.

Unless you have statistics that show the number of OC and CC in public places on a per capita basis this amounts to just throwing figures at the wall and seeing if anyone will look.

Texas and Florida have the strongest Castle Doctrine/Stand your ground laws so they can't be compared directly with other states. Most states do not allow deadly force to protect property, yet TX law allows shooting a fleeing burglar in the back.

 

[Firefighterchen]

So that is your scenario. Just sling more bull **** and see if any of it will stick. Well wipe your mouth, it has a brown stain.

No that's my super hero...I didn't answer your scenario question. That stain is in your eyes...That's why everything looks like crap to you.

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[XD40scinNC]

No that's my super hero...I didn't answer your scenario question. That stain is in your eyes...That's why everything looks like crap to you.

No just your reasoning, and your lack of ability to answer challenges to your posts or positions, regardless of the topic.

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[Nick Burkhardt]

Ya just can't be nice to people these days. The victim was 1) changing a tire for two ladies, and 2) giving directions to some youths when they took advantage of him. I guess if he had not stopped to help the youths would have robbed the ladies and got away. That is why I like pocket carry. Easy to get a good grip while casually talking with an unknown person.

Reminds me of a YouTube story I can't find right now. The carrier broke all three rules, went to a stupid party, in the bad part of town, at a stupid late time just to see girl who was only interested in his money. He leaves the party, hand on the Glock 19 in his jacket pocket and finds a guy leaning against his car. The guy asks "Hey man, what time is it?" Our carrier uses the muzzle of his Glock to push back his left sleeve and says "About time for you to get the hell out of here!" At least that is the story the YouTuber told.

 

[Firefighterchen]

No just your reasoning, and your lack of ability to answer challenges to your posts or positions, regardless of the topic.

Link Removed

Aww someone thinks he's important. Cute.

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[XD40scinNC]

Aww someone thinks he's important. Cute.

Childish personal attacks make you seem so much smarter than if you actually answered simple questions. But I understand, questions are hard when you don't have any answers.