Michael Brown

Outcome #1: Holder arrives and political pressure is generated to indict LEO. LEO is indicted and tried. Jury hangs as whites and blacks voted along racial lines. The neighborhood's riot.
Outcome #2: Grand Jury returns no true bill and the neighborhoods riot. Sharpton and Jesse hit the airwaves about everything BUT Chicago inner-city violence.
 
As having a lead foot- i've had plenty of speeding tickets handled by attorneys and decided one day to try my hand at representing myself- since what could be the harm, besides being granted a continuance. I walked into C (Town) (very wealthy community) with a ticket for a driving w/ a suspended driving license and speeding ticket- because:

6 weeks prior (approx) F (town- even wealthier than C) had pulled me over, I didn't have insurance card. Forgot to show up to show them current, so they suspended my DL, without my knowledge, which i'm not disputing. After C-Town pulls me over- i find out and get a ticket for driving w/ suspended & ALSO get arrested, bc of Frontenac's traffic warrant. They phone F town, and get the okay- for me to bail myself out from C town. Long story short- I was in and out of the station within 20 mins. The arresting officer even took me back to my car, which he allowed me to park in a neighborhood, and watched me drive off, after he had given me a driving on suspended. I then went to F town to show that my insurance was current at the time of ticket, got my DL suspension revoked. $20. Then at court, since i had a "perfect" driving record, the prosecutor dropped my speeding ticket- and fined me $200 (including court cost) and dropped the driving on speeded down to non moving.


So- around christmas after that, i'm driving back from visiting friends in IL, and take 270. And get pulled over for speeding in Calverton Park (North county), so i get off at the upcoming exit. The cop proceeds to harass me about my car- which was a brand new 750li. Asking what i do for a living. I answered. So then he seemed somewhat "understanding" (maybe to say- oh, she isn't a drug dealer.)- and says, "I'm going to let you off with a stop sign ticket."

I go to Calverton Park court, thinking i can rep. myself easy- when i finally get to the judge- he TOO asked me "what is it that you do young lady?" Then, after i answered, he said, what is it that i can do for you, so i said, since i have an excellent driving record, am i able to take a driving course and get the ticket dropped to a non moving fine. To which he says- no. you will need an attorney for that. And gave me a date to which the case which continued. 2 months later- my ($100) attorney sent me a letter stating that i owed $150 in non moving violation and no class.

Oh and btw, how he spoke to me, was WAYYYYYY nicer than how he spoke to other people who had similar traffic infractions. Def was an eye opener. You could tell the median income of the people in line was lower than average. All these people showed up bc they did not want to or have the money to hire an attorney. Were they just going to have to take their chances and more than likely pay a fine that would result in points on their license.
My dad always taught me the biggest problem I'll ever have is the one caused by the guy who watches me shave every morning. Good advice for you.
 
Officer Darren Wilson Suffered “Orbital Blowout Fracture to Eye Socket” During Mike Brown Attack
BREAKING REPORT: Officer Darren Wilson Suffered ?Orbital Blowout Fracture to Eye Socket? During Mike Brown Attack | The Gateway Pundit
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Doesn't sound like something that happens when confronting a nice college boy with his hands up...

Amazing that the officer seems just fine in this video taken right after the shooting.he seems to be in no pain,and never once touches his face, as most who are injured would do.


Hotair questions this report based only on the illogical nature of the PD not releasing the information themselves as the best evidence that Brown was indeed a legitimate threat to officer safety:

Most obvious of all, if Hoft’s sources are right, why haven’t we heard this already from Ferguson PD? It seemed odd when they let days go by before releasing the convenience store surveillance video of Brown, but there’s an explanation for that in hindsight. The DOJ was pressuring them not to release the footage, believing that it was immaterial to what happened later between Brown and Wilson and would be prejudicial to the public’s understanding of the case. The cops probably also wanted to let a bit of time pass between Brown’s death and releasing the video, lest they be accused of impeaching his character before the body was even cold. There’s no obvious reason, though, for them not to release information about Wilson supposedly being punched in the face and having his eye socket fractured by Brown if that’s what happened. It’s germane to Wilson’s self-defense claim and it’ll come out at trial, neither of which is necessarily true about the convenience store tape. Even if the feds are pressuring them to hush it up, there’s no reason why the police would respect that request if they were willing to defy the DOJ on the surveillance video. A busted eye would be the best evidence offered so far that Wilson was dealing with a serious threat to his safety — and yet the cops have said nothing about it. How come?

It's a fair question. What does the PD possibly have to gain by withholding that Wilson was seriously injured? And why let it trickle out this way with no "official" confirmation of the report? It's suspicious at least, if not downright incredible.

Blues
 
HIPAA. The officer does look like he is in shock. May not have realized that he was seriously hurt.

NEW QUESTION: Was the officer driving a squad car or a truck?
 
Amazing. The grand jury hasn't even convened to determine if charges will be brought against officer Wilson, and already Gov. Nixon says,

“A vigorous prosecution must now be pursued,” Nixon said in a five minute video address posted to his website Tuesday.“The democratically elected St. Louis county prosecutor and the attorney general of the United States each have a job to do,” said Nixon, a Democrat.
“Their obligation to achieve justice in the shooting death of Michael Brown must be carried out thoroughly, promptly, and correctly,” said Nixon of investigators," Gov. Nixon Calls For ?Vigorous Prosecution? Of Darren Wilson

Just like his president, Nixon feels the need to sway the direction of the investigation instead of letting the grand jury consider the evidence in as objective a fashion possible in such a charged situation.
 
HIPAA. The officer does look like he is in shock. May not have realized that he was seriously hurt.

NEW QUESTION: Was the officer driving a squad car or a truck?

An SUV. Not sure what make/model, but a full-sized big'un in any case.

HIPAA prevents the hospital from releasing specifics about injuries, not Wilson or the cop-shop with his permission. It's not like he got kicked in the 'nads or some other embarrassing kind of injury. Why on Earth would they withhold the best evidence that he was seriously attacked? There is zero logical rationale for that, and even now that the rumor has been released, there's even less logical rationale not to confirm the report's veracity.

I'd be curious to know what you base your diagnosis of "shock" on. One of the few people I've actually met in person and have known for the last 10 years from being introduced on another forum was a critical care nurse for 35 years before retiring. She posted this evaluation of the "shock" diagnosis by another forum "doc" on that forum earlier today:

...anytime I've dealt with fractured orbits, especially of the ''blowout'' variety, I don't believe I've ever seen the injured individual standing calmly about. I've seen paleness, sweating, shaking, and extreme pain.

Perhaps it depends on whether it's cracked or actually broken, but there are a ton of muscles that control the eye, and when that orbit of bones is broken, those muscles easily get trapped in the breaks, and can be severed. Blindness can result, and the eye gets stuck in one position.

But I can't imagine anybody standing around like this officer is doing, unless he's so totally shocked out that he doesn't even know he's injured. But his body would know even if his mind doesn't, and his body doesn't act like it's injured. No subconscious touching of the facial area, arms at rest, posture relaxed...

Maybe the fracture is minimal...ever so slight, if it even exists. Usually when you break bones, the spasms are so bad that you can't ignore it. So, what I'm seeing in the video, and what they're saying now isn't adding up.

Do you have any particular medical expertise that would contradict what appears to me to be a very objective analysis of that same video of Wilson not "acting" like he had this massive "orbital blowout" as is being reported by anonymous sources?

Blues
 
Let me clarify. Psychological shock, also called Acute Stress Disorder not Medical Shock. This is why after an adrenaline dump you don't talk to the cops without a lawyer.

Reason for not releasing this information before? Police Union. Also, evidence should be presented in court not the media.

An SUV makes the cops story that Big Mike was trying to get his gun more believable. It would be hard for a 6' 4" 300 pound man to duck into a sedan and try to do that. Or it could be that the cop swung open the door so forcefully that it belly bounced off of Big Mike and smacking himself in the face causing him to fumble his pistol and have an accidental discharge.

It is really too bad that the department did not have dash cameras. Hopefully they or someone recorded the police radio directly before and after the shooting.

Of course none of this would have happened if the store owner had been armed and prevented Big Mike from stealing that $50 box of cigars.
 
Let me clarify. Psychological shock, also called Acute Stress Disorder not Medical Shock. This is why after an adrenaline dump you don't talk to the cops without a lawyer.

Still curious if you have medical expertise that you're basing your diagnosis on.

Reason for not releasing this information before? Police Union.

Really? I thought it was HIPAA? And you say the reason the info hasn't been released "before?" It hasn't been released yet! It's a rumor based on anonymous DA and cop sources.

Also, evidence should be presented in court not the media.

Sure, unless it's evidence of Michael Brown doing something wrong just moments before he was killed by the cop who knew nothing of the so-called strong arm robbery when he contacted the pair. He was basically contacted for jaywalking, and from that contact flowed the killing of the unarmed citizen.

An SUV makes the cops story that Big Mike was trying to get his gun more believable. It would be hard for a 6' 4" 300 pound man to duck into a sedan and try to do that. Or it could be that the cop swung open the door so forcefully that it belly bounced off of Big Mike and smacking himself in the face causing him to fumble his pistol and have an accidental discharge.

Wow. You mean Wilson would be justified in having his firearm drawn as he approached two citizens for jaywalking? No shooting that ensues from that kind of carelessness can be called an "accident." That is the definition of negligence and misconduct. And even if you're going to stick with this hypothesis, getting smacked in the face because of his own actions could've also "blew out" his orbital socket.

As far as the part above that is not in bold, the SUV also supplies credibility to Dorian Johnson's story for the exact same reason. Both he and Piaget Crenshaw say that the cop was pulling Brown into the window, and Johnson says he was threatening to shoot him almost from the beginning after he tried to open the door too close to them and it "ricocheted" off of both of them.

It is really too bad that the department did not have dash cameras. Hopefully they or someone recorded the police radio directly before and after the shooting.

Oh, so you haven't heard the radio traffic? Some pretty troubling information contained in it. Bottom line, Wilson never reported the shooting. Dispatch was only alerted that they needed help with crowd control at the scene. More than 10 minutes after traffic began on the incident, the dispatcher can be heard saying, "They just told me they needed assistance on crowd control on Canfield and Coppercreek." Around a minute later, the St Louis dispatcher said: "She just said that they have a large group gathering there, she didn't know anything further."

Seconds later, the dispatcher said: "We just got another call saying there was an officer involved shooting at Canfield and Coppercreek. I don't know who called it in but it was called into my desk."

A dispatcher then added: "Be advised, this information came from the news."

Nice huh? Raise any questions in your mind about the credibility of the White Knight, Officer Darren Wilson?

Of course none of this would have happened if the store owner had been armed and prevented Big Mike from stealing that $50 box of cigars.

Even this "robbery" is called into question by the available facts, #1 being that the owner of the store who he supposedly "strong-armed" isn't even the source of the "robbery" report. It was a customer in the store who called it in, and the warrant for the video didn't issue until a full week later, on Friday, the same day the Chief released it in a cynical ploy to give Wilson cover for the jaywalking stop that the Chief himself contradicted just four hours later! Those are actual facts, but...

There is also analysis out there of the video that explains why the store owner(s) didn't call in the "robbery;" because, according to this analysis, it wasn't a robbery, it was an argument, and nothing the owner(s) of the store have said before or since contradicts any of it.

While it is difficult to be 100% certain, the video appears to show Brown purchasing some cigars, but lacking the money for the amount he wished to buy. Brown seems to purchase some cigarillos, pay for them, attempt to buy more, then replace the ones he could not afford.

The confrontation between Brown and the clerk may have been because Brown impatiently reached across the counter. Perhaps it was wrong for Brown to shove the employee (it is impossible to know what words were exchanged) but this footage seems to exonerate him. It is important to note that Brown only shoved the clerk after he put his hands on him.

In any case, neither the employee nor the store owner called law enforcement–something that would surely happen if Brown committed a "strong-arm robbery."

I strongly dislike that source (Crooks & Liars) and their source (Americans Against the Tea Party), but I've watched the video many times and can't see anything that invalidates their analysis. Is their analysis recounting "facts?" Absolutely not, but neither is anybody else talking "facts" when they make excuses about HIPAA or the cop union preventing Wilson from saying what happened to him, or at least what specific injuries he supposedly sustained. People are ignoring the fact that the owners never reported a robbery. People are discounting actual eye-witness accounts and accepting as supporting Wilson's (as yet untold) story from anonymous callers into radio shows and anonymous sources from the prosecutor's office and cop-shop.

And at the bottom line, an unarmed young man with no criminal record is dead at the hands of a cop who failed to even call in the shooting in a jurisdiction where 3 warrants are issued per household, per year on average, and 1.5 cases are actually charged per household, per year on average. If there's not something bad wrong with that scenario, then it's anything goes in this country as long as the killers are sworn to protect and defend the Constitution that the stats prove in my mind that they decidedly do not.

Blues
 
Do you have any particular medical expertise that would contradict what appears to me to be a very objective analysis of that same video of Wilson not "acting" like he had this massive "orbital blowout" as is being reported by anonymous sources?

Blues
One would think a smack strong enough to fracture facial bones would have wrung his bell pretty bad. I would think he would have a concussion at a minimum which usually requires a night at the hospital for evaluation. You don't get hit that bad and act normally afterward.
 
BluesStringer, you seem very eager to debate anyone whos opinion differs from your own. I don't have time right now to follow your links, work, all any of us can do is speculate based on the limited and contradictory evidence available.

As for the officers condition, all I can go off of is what instructors tell us in training "You may be injured and not know it due to adrenaline. You may not realize that you have been hit. Your perceived timing of the events may be distorted. Do not blurt out 'I just shot someone' when you call 911."

The store video sure looks like a strong arm robbery to me. Would that little clerk run in front of Big Mike just to scold him for reaching over the counter? That does not seem logical at all. At the very least the video destroys the assertion that Big Mike was just a gentle giant, and speaks to the combative state of mind that he was in just prior to the encounter.
 
I can certainly understand being in shock and not feeling pain. I was gripping my steering wheel when someone made an illegal u turn in front of me. I was definitely in a shock and daze. Paramedics asked me if I was ok. My stomach hurt and I had whip lash. I sat in the ambulance and made a call on my phone. Then I rummaged around for a mirror to see what my face looked like after the airbag hit it. Doing everything with my right hand. When the ambulance pulled up to the hospital (15 mins drive)- I pushed myself in a more comfortable sitting position- and that's when I felt the pain.

There was a "dent" on the inner side of my forearm. I had broken my right radial bone (bone in forearm on the side of the thumb)- and x ray showed a clean break- showing the radial bone "cut" pushed in and touching the ulna.

Ps. Not that it matters bc it's just about the same thing. But the police didn't shoot off rubber bullets- but rather bean bags- that sit in 12 g shot shells "2581 super sock". They weigh 1.4 oz (40g)
 
BluesStringer, you seem very eager to debate anyone whos opinion differs from your own. I don't have time right now to follow your links, work,

I am eager to suss out what can be discerned from the available evidence and various sources of analysis. Is there something wrong with that?

As far as having time to respond *properly*, I understand that. I'll be here after work or on the weekend or whenever, but just taking note of my willingness and/or eagerness to debate some assertions and assumptions you've made is not proper response. It's total deflection from anything I've said.

all any of us can do is speculate based on the limited and contradictory evidence available.

It seems like I'm the only one presenting the "contradictory" evidence to that of the general mindset of the board though. There are some undisputed facts on the table however. For instance, how does the PD put out a radio report of a "strong arm robbery" that they only saw the tape of or wrote a report about two days after the shooting, for which no victim has reported or complained about to this day? From one of my posts presenting some contradictory evidence earlier in this thread:

"The next narrative in the report was on MONDAY 8/11. In this account from a witness [the customer, not the owner or so-called "victim"] they said that the suspect had pushed the clerk. NOTE: the assertion of any violence was only made 2 days after the shooting. If any police before that time had encountered the suspect it would have been for $50, a Class A Misdemeanor in Missouri.

"The officer filing the report was also present at the shooting scene. It was AFTER the shooting that he reviewed tapes and determined that Brown and Johnson were the suspects. How long after is not clear."

As for the officers condition, all I can go off of is what instructors tell us in training "You may be injured and not know it due to adrenaline. You may not realize that you have been hit. Your perceived timing of the events may be distorted. Do not blurt out 'I just shot someone' when you call 911."

Wait. Are you basing this on some permission slip class? Or are the "instructors" you refer to honest-to-goodness cop and/or shooting academy instructors in an academy setting (something more in-depth than a minimum state-required class)? You do realize that dealing with adrenaline dumps is part of any advanced shooting courses, right?

The store video sure looks like a strong arm robbery to me. Would that little clerk run in front of Big Mike just to scold him for reaching over the counter? That does not seem logical at all. At the very least the video destroys the assertion that Big Mike was just a gentle giant, and speaks to the combative state of mind that he was in just prior to the encounter.

I don't see that at all. I see Brown calmly walking out when the store-keep first puts his hand on Brown, then tries to block his path before Brown reacts by pushing him off. First contact was made by the store-keep for whatever reason, and the fact remains, that same person has yet to claim that he was a victim of theft or "strong arm robbery." You gotta ignore that fact in order to go forward with your line of reasoning, and that line of reasoning has zero to do with the shooting anyway because it was two days later before the cops saw the tape. As well, the Chief says the robbery report had absolutely nothing to do with the stop, either the initial order to get out of the street, or what followed.

Blues
 
Amazing. The grand jury hasn't even convened to determine if charges will be brought against officer Wilson, and already Gov. Nixon says,



Just like his president, Nixon feels the need to sway the direction of the investigation instead of letting the grand jury consider the evidence in as objective a fashion possible in such a charged situation.

Craziness. If dude feels like volunteering responsibility for this mess, he should start with himself before throwing other people under the bus.
 
AS was pointed out "....OH SHUT UP. A cop shot this kid for no reason right? So quick to jump to conclusions of course. Mind you Fergeuson is NOT an all white community by any means- its a community of largely black citizens. St. Louis is not some midwest city known for its racism. (undoubtedly, racism exists everywhere, just as does coffee.)" The whole diatribe fermented by not only the news media but upstanding members of the black community are only interested in one thing.. they want this officer charged NO MATTER what and despite the fact that facts may controvert popular opinion.
 
Howdy,

An SUV. Not sure what make/model, but a full-sized big'un in any case.

HIPAA prevents the hospital from releasing specifics about injuries, not Wilson or the cop-shop with his permission. It's not like he got kicked in the 'nads or some other embarrassing kind of injury. Why on Earth would they withhold the best evidence that he was seriously attacked? There is zero logical rationale for that, and even now that the rumor has been released, there's even less logical rationale not to confirm the report's veracity.

I'd be curious to know what you base your diagnosis of "shock" on. One of the few people I've actually met in person and have known for the last 10 years from being introduced on another forum was a critical care nurse for 35 years before retiring. She posted this evaluation of the "shock" diagnosis by another forum "doc" on that forum earlier today:



Do you have any particular medical expertise that would contradict what appears to me to be a very objective analysis of that same video of Wilson not "acting" like he had this massive "orbital blowout" as is being reported by anonymous sources?

Blues

Actually since it was a workplace injury the details of the incident and injuries must be reported to OHSA and from there they are public record, kinda sorta. Name(s) will not be released but the event, injuries, etc will be released, more or less.

Paul
 

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