Rise Of The Police State & No-Knock Raids - Either We Are Against Them Or Allowing Th

Ringo said:
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Part of the "expansion" of the reserve force may be directly related to school security. Pierce is the sheriff who has been training Delton-Kellogg Schools teachers who want to be able to carry at school as reserve officers. They are trained, and then deputized as reservists, so a number of these reservists for such a small town may actually be school teachers who have successfully completed the training and would be carrying as teachers in the local school system - something I believe most of us here support. If there are verifiable instances of abuse, then certainly they need to be addressed.

Teachers as Armed Guards in Michigan: Small-town police chief trains teachers as reserve officers.
 
gunnerbob said:
To "serve and protect", ladies and gentlemen. The officer has some serious anger issues, eh?

Caught On Tape: What Happens When You Try To Exercise Your Constitutional Rights In Illinois | Zero Hedge
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I have the same problem with this video that I have with all of these videos, the driver talks waaay too much.

There is no point in arguing about your rights with a cop while the encounter is happening. In fact the more you talk the more likely you are to say something he can use against you.
As soon as the cop said “You are not free to leave.” The driver should have said “I want to speak to a lawyer; I have nothing further to say.” And he should have stuck by it.

There’s no point in arguing or repeatedly asking the cop why or if you’re being detained. He just told you “You are not free to go.” So yes you are being detained and the why doesn’t matter. You ask for a lawyer and shut up.

Second know your state laws. In most states you are required to present a DL on demand of law enforcement anytime you are behind the wheel. Arguing that you are not required to do so will get you nowhere (see paragraph 2 above).

This clearly wasn’t the first time the cop dealt with this issue. He pounced as soon as the kid started blabbering about how he wasn’t required to provide the driver’s license (see paragraph 2 above).

Finally why was his door unlocked? You lock the door because it demonstrates an expectation of privacy. This car is my personal space and I don’t want you in here that’s why the doors are locked.

I’m pretty sure the driver had to change his pants when it was all over.
 
Eidolon said:
I have the same problem with this video that I have with all of these videos, the driver talks waaay too much.

There is no point in arguing about your rights with a cop while the encounter is happening. In fact the more you talk the more likely you are to say something he can use against you.
As soon as the cop said “You are not free to leave.” The driver should have said “I want to speak to a lawyer; I have nothing further to say.” And he should have stuck by it.

There’s no point in arguing or repeatedly asking the cop why or if you’re being detained. He just told you “You are not free to go.” So yes you are being detained and the why doesn’t matter. You ask for a lawyer and shut up.

Second know your state laws. In most states you are required to present a DL on demand of law enforcement anytime you are behind the wheel. Arguing that you are not required to do so will get you nowhere (see paragraph 2 above).

This clearly wasn’t the first time the cop dealt with this issue. He pounced as soon as the kid started blabbering about how he wasn’t required to provide the driver’s license (see paragraph 2 above).

Finally why was his door unlocked? You lock the door because it demonstrates an expectation of privacy. This car is my personal space and I don’t want you in here that’s why the doors are locked.

I’m pretty sure the driver had to change his pants when it was all over.
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Nah, I don't think so... not to that extent. I agree with you, once he was told he was not free to leave he should have stated he wanted to speak to his lawyer and invoke his 5th Amendment Right to not speak. Once a person informs an officer they wish to speak to their lawyer and they wish to invoke their 5th Amendment Right, the officer can actually get him/herself in a bit of trouble by not doing just as asked and for continuing questioning when not in the presence of counsel. Well, that's how it's supposed to work...
 
gunnerbob said:
Once a person informs an officer they wish to speak to their lawyer and they wish to invoke their 5th Amendment Right, the officer can actually get him/herself in a bit of trouble by not doing just as asked and for continuing questioning when not in the presence of counsel. Well, that's how it's supposed to work...
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Remember no matter how many times you invoke your Fifth Amendment Rights (and I wouldn't say it like that) you waive them every time you open your mouth
 
Eidolon said:
There’s no point in arguing or repeatedly asking the cop why or if you’re being detained. He just told you “You are not free to go.” So yes you are being detained and the why doesn’t matter. You ask for a lawyer and shut up.
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I agree 100% with everything else you said, but for the purposes of the recording that will presumably be used in some kind of harassment or civil rights violation lawsuit, the why is important. Once you get the cop on record either refusing to give you a reason for the stop or making up a reason (dogs are used for this purpose quite often) or saying something like "I don't need a reason," they are trapped by Terry vs. Ohio. From the moment forward that he lies or refuses to provide the citizen the requested information under the reasonable articulable suspicion rule, he is in the wrong. Asking why you're being detained, or what crime you're suspected of committing, is the only way to establish that on a recording.

Blues
 
BluesStringer said:
I agree 100% with everything else you said, but for the purposes of the recording that will presumably be used in some kind of harassment or civil rights violation lawsuit, the why is important. Once you get the cop on record either refusing to give you a reason for the stop or making up a reason (dogs are used for this purpose quite often) or saying something like "I don't need a reason," they are trapped by Terry vs. Ohio. From the moment forward that he lies or refuses to provide the citizen the requested information under the reasonable articulable suspicion rule, he is in the wrong. Asking why you're being detained, or what crime you're suspected of committing, is the only way to establish that on a recording.

Blues
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I understand your point, I need to back up a little and clarify mine.

The right word wasn’t “Why”, what I was referring to was the driver’s repeated question of “For suspicion of what crime are you detaining me?” (Which in and of itself is a mouth full). If the cop tells you he’s detaining you I don’t see any point in asking what crime he suspects you of committing. He can lie about that anyway and it’s legal, so I wouldn’t bother asking.

As for the “Why” the driver did ask the cop “Why are you stopping me?” and the cop answered him “Public safety check point.” or some such nonsense. Whether you and I agree with these check points doesn’t change the fact that the Supremes say they’re Ok and arguing the point with the cop isn’t going to get you anywhere.

Personally I would have done it like this:

Eidolon: Good evening officer why are you stopping me?

Cop: Public Safety check point.

Eidolon: I do not consent to this interaction, Am I free to go?

Cop: You are not free to go.

Eidolon: I would like to speak to MY lawyer; I have nothing more to say.

Cop: Blah, Blah, Blah.

Eidolon: ………
 
Nightmare 45: I am a retired deputy sheriff. I totally agree with being certain anyone stopping you, or trying to enter your home, is a legitimate peace officer. I will do the same thing. I live in an adjacent county to the one I worked in for 30 years. I know few deputies in this county. Also most peace officers in both counties are younger, the ones I knew and worked with are now retired as I am. It pays to be careful as you obviously are. I hope everyone is as careful as we are. I will also say that during my career and life, I always use the golden rule. I am just as appalled by police brutality as everyone here. There are bad cops just as there are bad people in any profession. Because of the fact that we are sworn to protect and serve, a bad cop gets much more attention than a bad person in other types of work. It makes me sick, because it is a blot on all of the honest, hard working LEO's, that are doing their duty. We are not all like the bad ones in the press, please remember that.
 
KSDeputy said:
Nightmare 45: I am a retired deputy sheriff. I totally agree with being certain anyone stopping you, or trying to enter your home, is a legitimate peace officer. I will do the same thing. I live in an adjacent county to the one I worked in for 30 years. I know few deputies in this county. Also most peace officers in both counties are younger, the ones I knew and worked with are now retired as I am. It pays to be careful as you obviously are. I hope everyone is as careful as we are. I will also say that during my career and life, I always use the golden rule. I am just as appalled by police brutality as everyone here. There are bad cops just as there are bad people in any profession. Because of the fact that we are sworn to protect and serve, a bad cop gets much more attention than a bad person in other types of work. It makes me sick, because it is a blot on all of the honest, hard working LEO's, that are doing their duty. We are not all like the bad ones in the press, please remember that.
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How many bad cops did you turn in? How many bad cops do you know were turned in by other cops?

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BluesStringer said:
I agree 100% with everything else you said, but for the purposes of the recording that will presumably be used in some kind of harassment or civil rights violation lawsuit, the why is important. Once you get the cop on record either refusing to give you a reason for the stop or making up a reason (dogs are used for this purpose quite often) or saying something like "I don't need a reason," they are trapped by Terry vs. Ohio. From the moment forward that he lies or refuses to provide the citizen the requested information under the reasonable articulable suspicion rule, he is in the wrong. Asking why you're being detained, or what crime you're suspected of committing, is the only way to establish that on a recording.

Blues
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EXACTLY! When my wife endured the embarrassing and harassing stop at the grocery store for parking a little crooked (fully within the parking space) he got caught on her smartphone recorder. He asks can he search the car... she says not without a warrant. He asks are you intoxicated or using illegal drugs. She says no. He asks if she's taking any prescription medications. She says it's none of his business ( he has no access to med info under HIPAA privacy). He says "THE LAW REQUIRES YOU DISCLOSE TO ME ALL MEDICATIONS YOU'RE TAKING FOR ANY MEDICAL CONDITION. Her response? "No it doesn't. Not unless I woke-up in Russian this morning." I was so proud of her. When her lawyer (my best friend) showed-up at the stop and played the recording the cop apologized and left. The very next week he did the same thing to her physical therapist. Pond scum. No doughnut. No more PBA donations as of that day.
 
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