Do you still conceal carry into posted "No Carry" businesses?

[MZIngrahmm]

Yep.
Until I see a Supreme Court ruling elevating company policy over the Constitution, State and Federal law, I'll ignore such trash policies.

 

[BC1]

So are people who work for corporations that prohibit their employees from carrying firearms on the job and state such prohibitions in their employee handbooks also spineless gun owning morons? Or how about college students going to colleges that prohibit firearms on campus? After all they could choose to be employed elsewhere or go to school elsewhere.

When you apply for business liability insurance you must complete some lengthy paperwork regarding your operation. When a company answers they have no policy on workplace violence, no policy regarding weapons on premises or client sites, that they don't care if employees carry weapons, some carriers won't even write the policy. Those that will write it want much higher premiums. My carrier routinely audited our policies and employee handbook for errors and omissions. So you put it in the handbook and you answer the questions on insurance forms so that you may get the best premium. As a business owner I'm not in the second amendment business. I'm in the business of providing for my family and that's only possible if I'm successful. If I make money. But I can't kick-out another $9K per year in premiums. What business-minded person would do that?
.
For me it was a software consulting firm. I'm sending software developers and analysts to client sites. These companies also have weapons policies. If my consultant violates my client's weapons policy it's MY ass that gets thrown in the street. My good name gets tarnished. It could adversely affect my ability to remain viable as a company. What I guarantee to client companies is top-notch people that I have personally vetted. And when he signs his contract he agrees to these terms and conditions.
.
Personally I find that a consultant getting $100 per hour on a 9 month contract doesn't care much if he can't have his gun in his desk. He's more interested ion the $$.

 

[BC1]

Yep.
Until I see a Supreme Court ruling elevating company policy over the Constitution, State and Federal law, I'll ignore such trash policies.

The constitution doesn't apply to your boss or his business. It is entirely between you and the government. It is the government who may not infringe.
.
Hope its not a good job.

 

[Rhino]

When you apply for business liability insurance you must complete some lengthy paperwork regarding your operation. When a company answers they have no policy on workplace violence, no policy regarding weapons on premises or client sites, that they don't care if employees carry weapons, some carriers won't even write the policy. Those that will write it want much higher premiums....

Ohio Revised Code 2923.126:
.

(2) (a) A private employer shall be immune from liability in a civil action for any injury, death, or loss to person or property that allegedly was caused by or related to a licensee bringing a handgun onto the premises or property of the private employer, including motor vehicles owned by the private employer, unless the private employer acted with malicious purpose. A private employer is immune from liability in a civil action for any injury, death, or loss to person or property that allegedly was caused by or related to the private employer’s decision to permit a licensee to bring, or prohibit a licensee from bringing, a handgun onto the premises or property of the private employer. As used in this division, “private employer” includes a private college, university, or other institution of higher education.

Try to charge me a higher premium for something I am not legally liable for and I file a complaint with the state department of insurance. I was a licensed insurance agent once. The state can be a nightmare for an insurance company when a complaint is filed, especially if you know how to file one correctly. And yes, there is a correct way to file an insurance complaint.

 

[BC1]

Ohio Revised Code 2923.126:
.
Try to charge me a higher premium for something I am not legally liable for and I file a complaint with the state department of insurance. I was a licensed insurance agent once. The state can be a nightmare for an insurance company when a complaint is filed, especially if you know how to file one correctly. And yes, there is a correct way to file an insurance complaint.

That's just exemption from civil liability. Not the same as a workplace violence policy. The insurer can legally charge a higher premium for companies without a workplace violence policy. The same is true regarding coverage for defamation or copyright infringement. If the company has a website that allows customers to upload content they will pay a higher rate if they don't have a policy for policing content. On the app you must provide the procedures used to review or remove user content. Also remember its based on your state. Few states formally exempt an employer such as Ohio. Finally, no law will exempt an employer for incidents arising out of negligence. An employer who knows he has an employee that is a threat to customers, clients, etc. and does nothing about it has contributory or comparative negligence in a civil suit. Also don't discount suits in fed court which are outside the purvey of state law.

 

[Rhino]

I was really only addressing liability for firearms in general and concealed carry in particular. Workplace violence in itself, although it often manifests with the use of a firearm, isn't strictly a firearms issue. No exclusion from liability, no matter the source, will cover instances of negligence, so that isn't really a firearms issue either. And even statutory exemption from liability has been challenged in the courts before, so having the law in place is no absolute 100% guarantee. The chances of it covering you are probably far better than the odds of being the victim of workplace violence though. The conditions needed to file suit in federal court that could not have been met in another court are even less likely, such as civil rights violations. That's a tall hurdle to clear. But again, there are no absolute guarantees. Regardless, a statutory immunity is easy grounds to contest higher premiums with a state insurance regulator. And yes, it would be great if more states would do as Ohio did in this case. On the other hand, there are many facets of Ohio concealed carry law that seemingly defy logic, and they could take many lessons from other states in those other areas. You take the good with the bad I guess.

 

[whodat2710]

All the legaleeze out of the way, lets say you are an employer and you have the no guns for employees policy in place to comply with the insurance requirement. Boxes checked, are you going to pat down your employees to ensure they comply? If they carry but you can't see it do you care? You're covered because you can say "it is against company policy", but what do you tell employees that you believe may carry?

 

[BC1]

All the legaleeze out of the way, lets say you are an employer and you have the no guns for employees policy in place to comply with the insurance requirement. Boxes checked, are you going to pat down your employees to ensure they comply? If they carry but you can't see it do you care? You're covered because you can say "it is against company policy", but what do you tell employees that you believe may carry?

ABSOLUTELY NOT!! I would never search an employee. To me that's the ultimate betrayal to your staff. I don't care if they carry I only care about the insurance costs. What do I tell employees who I know carry? Nothing at all. It's not an issue unless they bring it up.

 

[whodat2710]

ABSOLUTELY NOT!! I would never search an employee. To me that's the ultimate betrayal to your staff. I don't care if they carry I only care about the insurance costs. What do I tell employees who I know carry? Nothing at all. It's not an issue unless they bring it up.

Exactly!

 

[Rocketgeezer]

In the last 25 years I have worked for three differant places that had it in there handbook prohibiting weapons, it was and is not enforced, several of us carried every day, not actualy working on the cars, we kept them in our toolbox's, ..........I guess if its a good job and you need to work, who don't, you might better leave it in the car, but as far as a store, restaurant, if there a gunbuster on the door I smile at it and go in, with my shirt over the gun, its concealed, and its a bunch bigger bump in my shirt than a cell ph, there is no shop, business establishment of any kind I go into with a gunbuster sign where the sign carrys any more weight than the plastic its printed on, now if for some reason your dumb ass should show your gun or start stuff with a sales person or ***** to the manager about your coffee being to hot, and you have a big hogleg under your shirt, you should be asked to leave cause your being a ***hole, just like that bunch of ******* rednecks at chipoltles...........

 

[Firefighterchen]

just like that bunch of ******* rednecks at chipoltles...........

The MDA? Nah...Even they have a backbone to stick up for what they believe and spend their money elsewhere, so you couldn't mean them. You must be talking about other gun owners...further driving home there is no "us" or "our" when it comes to the gun "community".

No wonder there are so many people who want private firearm ownership prohibited...There's so many ******** ***hole rednecks geezers that own guns.

Sent from my HTCONE using USA Carry mobile app

 

[BluesStringer]

The MDA? Nah...Even they have a backbone to stick up for what they believe and spend their money elsewhere, so you couldn't mean them. You must be talking about other gun owners...further driving home there is no "us" or "our" when it comes to the gun "community".

No wonder there are so many people who want private firearm ownership prohibited...There's so many ******** ***hole rednecks geezers that own guns.

Whaddaya wanna bet that he doesn't even know what "MDA" stands for, or what the acronym has to do with the Chipotle picture?

 

[Rhino]

The MDA? Nah...Even they have a backbone to stick up for what they believe and spend their money elsewhere, so you couldn't mean them. You must be talking about other gun owners...further driving home there is no "us" or "our" when it comes to the gun "community".

I don't see how he could be talking about the gun owners at Chipotles. They didn't do any of the things he said. They were quite well mannered and openly welcomed by the employees. The MDA folks engaged in some unruly behavior at a Chipotles on at least one occasion though. That's why they got kicked out of one.
.

No wonder there are so many people who want private firearm ownership prohibited...There's so many ******** ***hole rednecks geezers that own guns.

Yeah. A lot of lower class people were Jews in Germany too. Low social strata is always a good reason to ban something. It's amazing how so many people who claim to champion the causes of the poor or disadvantaged will suddenly turn around and mischaracterize them in order to take away their rights, and they see absolutely no hypocrisy or inconsistency in this at all. How can people that stupid claim to be that smart?

 

[Firefighterchen]

I don't see how he could be talking about the gun owners at Chipotles. They didn't do any of the things he said.

That's what you get when ********* ***hole redneck geezers parrot what the MDA told them open carriers did without actually researching it.

Sent from my HTCONE using USA Carry mobile app

 

[CharlesMorrison]

That's what you get when ********* ***hole redneck geezers parrot what the MDA told them open carriers did without actually researching it.

Sent from my HTCONE using USA Carry mobile app

Speak of the Devils......

I went over to THR (that "other site"), and I could not believe how BAD they were crucifying members of OCT!!!
The vile, disrespect and open hatred they spewed towards OCT and open carry in general!!
I was so blown away by the open hatred that I had to reply!!
I was banned in just seven posts!
Just for TRYING to explain what OCT stands for!
No big deal.... They are the most vilest, venomous group I have ever seen...!!


Sent from behind Enemy Lines.

 

[NavyLCDR]

Speak of the Devils......

I went over to THR (that "other site"),
I was banned in just seven posts!

Haha! They probably thought you were me trying to get back on after I was banned!

 

[Rocketgeezer]

Oh come on guys, weather or not they were within there legal right, what possible good could it do for a bunch of guys to sling ARs over there should and go into a restaurant, other than to prove they could, but also to get people fired up, and that's just being dam stupid, I am all for open carry, but that stunt was absolutely no help

 

[Firefighterchen]

Oh come on guys, weather or not they were within there legal right, what possible good could it do for a bunch of guys to sling ARs over there should and go into a restaurant, other than to prove they could, but also to get people fired up, and that's just being dam stupid, I am all for open carry, but that stunt was absolutely no help

No one in the restaurant had a problem with it...but a gun owner, in a completely different state, does....that "stunt" helps infinitely more than your judgment. Don't expect more from a honorary mommie though.

Sent from my HTCONE using USA Carry mobile app

 

[Rocketgeezer]

No one in the restaurant had a problem with it...but a gun owner, in a completely different state, does....that "stunt" helps infinitely more than your judgment. Don't expect more from a honorary mommie though.

Sent from my HTCONE using USA Carry mobile app

No one in the restaurant had a problem with it, and you personaly know this how? or were you there.............no amount of analizing, name calling or smart mouth talk will I back off my opinion, a bunch of guys carrying ARs in a restaurant to prove a point, hurts gun owners in all states..........I know its my opinion just like all you guys posts are yours..... but one off the cool things about getting older is not giving a flaming **** about somebodys personal opinion

 

[BluesStringer]

No one in the restaurant had a problem with it, and you personaly know this how? or were you there.............no amount of analizing, name calling or smart mouth talk will I back off my opinion, a bunch of guys carrying ARs in a restaurant to prove a point, hurts gun owners in all states..........I know its my opinion just like all you guys posts are yours..... but one off the cool things about getting older is not giving a flaming **** about somebodys personal opinion

You are perfectly entitled to your opinions. You are not, however, entitled to your own set of facts, and you steadfastly refuse to consider the real set of facts that even your Mommies have confirmed.

Your Mommies' ignorance is just a function of being misguided and uninformed, besides having a strong leftist and anti-gun bent.

You are much more dangerous to the cause of liberty though. You actively choose to remain ignorant, and to alienate folks who have researched and tried to understand the circumstances of the TX open carry demonstrations to find agreement and offer support where we can. Your research goes no deeper than an emotional response to seeing imagery that is being used to elicit the exact response you have given - vitriol, recriminations and blame directed at your fellow gun owners/carriers for what appears to be some slight you perceive to have been foisted upon you personally. How ridiculous is that? You don't even know what OCT is trying to accomplish, and yet it's you that's somehow hurt by their activism? What logic is this? Where do such "opinions" come from?

You live in the Volunteer State, home of the original Minutemen, yet you volunteer for the forces of disarmament, for leftist ideology, for anti-2nd-Amendment orthodoxy. In better days, yours would be considered sedition, not "opinion."

And you'll notice also that I can make every point and drive it home without a single word being censored by asterisks. Your emotionalism will be right at home with the Mommies. Better be careful though. Your Mommies are not harmless. They have an appetite for our liberty, and the unintended consequences of such treachery has a way of rubbing off on collaborators.

Blues