Concealed vs Open carry
- Thread starter chilipeppernorm
- Start date
chilipeppernorm
New member
This is clearly a passionate topic, more so than I realized. As far as one method of carry being superior to the other, either in personal safety or as a preventative of attack, I've yet to see any hard data (that can be easily referenced) presented on either side. In this respect OC vs CC is much like the question "what is the best weapon for me?", with the answer being the one that is most comfortable for you to employ effectively. As to those who routinely visit harm or death to the innocent, that being criminals, terrorists, and the insane, the only thing one can truly be sure of is that they can and will hurt you. Much has been said about their thought process or decision making on selecting victims, and that is purely guess work on anyones part as there are too many uncontrolled variables.
I strongly support the right of anyone who wants to OC, but for myself, I believe that OC can be more provocative to playground parents, police who aren't sure what your rights are, etc. Thus, I choose to CC. Also, I never discount the element of surprise when drawing myCC pistol. (I think that most street thugs are counting on me being cowed by their bluster and loud voice ... and won't they be surprised when I draw my Taurus .357 mag revolver?) I, like you, intend to protect myself and minimize the hassle in my life at the same time
CharlesMorrison
Banned
OK... Here is your draft...
Walking alone, bad area but with a concealed gun.
Perp one walks up and asks you a question. As you assimilate this clown, perp two steps up and shoves a gun under your nose.
With the above scenario.... Explain how carrying concealed gives you " the edge " in this situation...
You are now effectively "behind the curve"... Period.
Oh and by the way... Carry as you see fit but don't talk to me about the "element of surprise" when in fact, you are behind the curve...
Sent from behind enemy lines.
Walking alone, bad area but with a concealed gun.
Perp one walks up and asks you a question. As you assimilate this clown, perp two steps up and shoves a gun under your nose.
With the above scenario.... Explain how carrying concealed gives you " the edge " in this situation...
You are now effectively "behind the curve"... Period.
Oh and by the way... Carry as you see fit but don't talk to me about the "element of surprise" when in fact, you are behind the curve...
Sent from behind enemy lines.
BluesStringer
Les Brers
Nobody around here is going to knock you for forming and exercising your own preferences about how to carry, but that "element of surprise" thing really needs to be thought out a little better. Perhaps this post (from the first page of this thread) will help you understand why, if there is an advantage to having the element of surprise, it more likely than not enures to the open carrier.
I have carried for over 30 years and, except for a couple or three years that I lived on 50 acres out in the sticks and OC'ed while out on the property, I have preferred CC too. For most of my time on this forum, OC didn't even interest me, and I don't think I even looked in the OC sub-forum until like four to six months ago. The reason I took an interest in it was in anticipation of a new set of carry laws going into affect here in Alabama in August that were going to make OC fully legal (it was technically legal before that, but the new law clarified it to the point that cops no longer have the discretion to throw a disturbing the peace charge or whatever based only on someone OC'ing).
To this day I am WAY more comfortable CC'ing, but having spent quite a bit of time now in this sub-forum, I am of the considered opinion that my comfort has been based more in rote habit than any real understanding of issues like the "element of surprise" or OC'ers will be the first ones taken out when the BG's show up or the only reason to OC is to purposely cause confrontations with cops etc. etc. etc. The post to which I referred you above is a good example of why I have started to reconsider the prudence of choosing CC over OC now that I actually have the unambiguous choice legally-speaking. And the author of that post is one of the most articulate, prolific and well-reasoned OC advocates to get people to think seriously about their reasons for choosing CC, as well as several others on this forum from whom much can be learned about the subject.
So I invite you to learn other ways of looking at it, and make your choice from a fully knowledgeable position, rather than what I think you might consider after reading more posts like the one I linked to, the flawed logic of the "element of surprise" being an advantage to the CC'er rather than the OC'er. Or maybe you won't think that, but you will still have a valid and first-hand-experienced opinion on it from which to draw.
Oh, and welcome to the forums. Enjoy your stay.
Blues
Dr. Dillner
New member
topgun47
New member
Perp one sees that you're armed as he walks up from behind you. He pulls your gun out of the holster and sticks it in your ribs and pulls the trigger. No need for a perp two, you're dead.
Johnny Dollar
New member
Yup
It’s a rule of nature you only get to show your ass so many times before someone hands it to you.
It is my opinion that there are people in this world who will take one look at your openly displayed firearm and view it the same as if you walked up and dared them to take it and sooner or later one of them is going to take you up on it.
Firefighterchen
OC for Tactical Advantage
Apparently these two didn't understand the question from you Charles. Statistically, a concealed carrier would be the one to have to deal with your draft scenario. Let's look at a website I stumbled across recently to see how well these situations turn out. It would seem, out of the hundreds of concealed carriers, it's a crap shoot as to whether you will survive without ruining your life either physically, emotionally, or financially. Interesting though...no stories about us open carriers getting picked on, sooner or later...or at all....
Fictitious stories about firearms with no statistic evidence to support them, and they wonder why we think they are anti gun? Oh but it's not about statistics or facts...it's about feelings and opinions...what a nice liberal heart warming argument...
BluesStringer
Les Brers
Since I can only "Like" a post once, please allow me to reinforce that with....
Link Removed
Thanks Brother.
Blues
CharlesMorrison
Banned
Not even close.... My gun does not just "jump out" of its holster for anyone.
It's called "retention holster" for a reason.... Look it up..
Link Removed
Sent from behind Enemy Lines.
Johnny Dollar
New member
Not reported and never haqppened are not synonyms
BluesStringer
Les Brers
Have you taken into account how many times on this issue alone you have shown your ass?
If the rules of nature are as you describe, you may want to cover that gerbil shack-crack up post-haste.
Fact is, your so-called "opinions" on the issue are nothing more than a blatant and inexplicably raging bigotry against people who choose to exercise their rights their way instead of your way. You have zero substance in your "rationale" for actively and vocally opposing OC, as compared to simply making a decision of preference not to partake. Just saying that OC is tantamount to "daring" somebody to attempt to victimize the OC'er, and describing the act as "showing your ass," is only one post among several that proves that you actively oppose it.
Whatever you really are, you are no friend to the 2nd Amendment.
Blues
B
Bikenut
Guest
I've been asking for cites and/or links to open carry gun grabs in a number large enough to be more than a statistical rarity.... so now...
Do you actually mean to say that there are hundreds, perhaps thousands, of gun grabs from open carriers that have gone totally unreported?
Your unsubstantiated fears about open carrying and the reality of decades of statistically uneventful open carry are not the same thing.
Johnny Dollar
New member
Not at all, I have maintained from the beginning that open carry itself is rare enough that if every open carrier got their gun grabbed it still wouldn’t be a huge number of incidents. This is the same reason you don’t have large numbers of albino people with cancer, albinism is pretty rare to begin with so if they all got cancer it still wouldn’t amount to a lot of cases over all.
You have accepted in the other thread that open carry does involve some element of risk, we both agree on that. What we don’t agree on is how high that level of risk is and whether or not we’re willing to accept it. I’m not a political activist and in Oklahoma I still need a permit to open carry so there’s no benefit to me to outweigh the perceived risk and I opt not to open carry.
BCI said it in the other thread and it’s true on every forum I’ve ever participated in there seems to be a small number of vocal open carry advocates that band together and get very defensive towards anyone who doesn’t speak positively about open carry and label them as anti gun rights. I think it hurts your cause
B
Bikenut
Guest
If you didn't mean to try to evade providing cites and/or links to actual incidents by saying:
Exactly what did you mean?
Nice try at wording it to seem as if your argument concerning the degree of risk of open carry was compelling enough to get me to accept that there is some element of risk to open carry when the fact is I never disputed that even before you ever entered this now forum wide discussion about how you don't like open carry.
What I find interesting is you are still putting forth the idea that open carry is fraught with the danger of a gun grab yet haven't presented any actual factual cites and/or links to a number of incidents that would support that view.
And instead of coming up with facts you have the example that even if every open carrier had his gun grabbed that would still make gun grabs a small number is disingenuous at best since... we aren't talking about how large the number of actual gun grabs happen... we are talking about how large the number of gun grabs from open carriers that have actually happened. And you also throw in a reference to cancer amongst albino people being rare because albino people are themselves a rarity without understanding the actual reference to how many albino people get cancer would be truthfully expressed as a percentage of albino people who have had cancer. You know... like the truthful number of open carrier gun grabs would be expressed by a percentage of open carriers who have had their guns grabbed.
It appears to me you are grasping at straws in the hopes you can avoid presenting actual facts by dazzling folks with evasive arguments.
Here is the bottom line.........
Got cites and/or links to actual factual incidents of gun grabs from open carriers in a number that is more than a statistical rarity just drawing from the decades of open carry in Arizona to support what you consider to be a high level of risk?
Facts... show us the facts instead of endless attempts to obfuscate the issue with evasive disingenuous examples that have nothing to do with actual factual... ummm... facts.
And every forum I have participated in seems to have an endless stream of anti open carry folks who say they support open carry while posting a barrage of unsubstantiated fear mongering about how dangerous open carry is. And it seems those folks all share the common traits of being long on ridicule, insults, fear mongering, and an aversion to providing facts to back up their assertions. I am convinced these folks are hurting the right to bear arms because their arguments against open carry are also arguments against the right to bear arms itself... which, in my not so humble opinion, does make them a "lite" version of anti gunners... and also makes them allies of the rabid anti gunner since the rabid anti gunner and the anti gunner "lite" share the same attitude of wanting the right to bear arms fit their own personal idea of what is "reasonable", "appropriate", and "acceptable".
CharlesMorrison
Banned
All I can add is this little nugget to you both....
Link Removed
Sent from behind Enemy Lines.
