Concealed vs Open carry

[BluesStringer]

One of the points I find the most amusing when dispelling the myths of firearms, is when someone claims they made their choices on experience. I am pretty sure norm hasn't, doesn't, and will not open carry and such he has no personal experience to draw his conclusions from.

Well, I haven't OC'ed to any significant extent either, so that wasn't the point I was trying to make. He said, "CC at this time represents my only available option and my preferred choice..." so it's safe to assume you're right, he probably doesn't have any personal experience with it. I was just trying to say that in my experience, which is similar to his because of not really having choices, my comfort zones (which are largely the result of rote habit) don't always turn out to be the best and/or most prudent choices I could make, and I find that particularly true when it comes to OC after either participating in discussions with you and other good advocates for the practice, or just watching how most of those discussions go.

I kind of relate to not only not having the unfettered choice to OC, but to the notion also that my many years of experience with CC is equal to exercising a preference, when the truth is closer in reality that CC is just a habit that I've become comfortable with. I rarely quote authors or speakers that I have no use for, but I can't help relating to this quote by Warren Buffet:

"Chains of habit are too light to be felt until they are too heavy to be broken."

I know I am susceptible to that idea, and think it is really the only explanation for CC'ers that have convinced themselves that OC puts them at some tactical disadvantage. Maybe that's true with norm, maybe it's not, but that was the point I was trying to get at in any case.

Blues

 

[chilipeppernorm]

Dr Dillner, wolf fire, Bikenut, NavyLCDR, and BluesStringer, thank you one and all for your responses to my last post, I appreciate it.

Firefighterchen, you seem to struggle in reading for content, meaning, and context in the posts of those you disagree with, or perhaps you simply choose to ignore it, I'm not sure which. Likewise, you have a penchant for criticizing that which was never written, stated, nor implied. The line between passion and self righteous is a fine one and I believe we all struggle with it over that which we care deeply about. At this point sir, you're simply being tedious.

 

[Firefighterchen]

Firefighterchen, you seem to struggle in reading for content, meaning, and context in the posts of those you disagree with, or perhaps you simply choose to ignore it, I'm not sure which. Likewise, you have a penchant for criticizing that which was never written, stated, nor implied. The line between passion and self righteous is a fine one and I believe we all struggle with it over that which we care deeply about. At this point sir, you're simply being tedious.

Again, your words mean nothing with no foundation (seems to be a repeating problem for you). I stopped responding to you after a total of 6 times (my last post being #55) because you are a broken record. You then accused me of needing a deep breath in #93, and only in the last post #98 did I accuse you of being on your high horse. It seems, you are still on it.

Maybe it's laziness, maybe it's confusion, maybe it's stereotyping "all practicing open carriers", I'm not sure why you think we are all not understanding your posts when I haven't been responding to you at all since #55. Why don't you go re-read who you were talking with before you respond to me again. When you realize I haven't been discussing this issue with you over half the thread, I think you should still not respond to me as I have no interest in your unsubstantiated position.

 

[BluesStringer]

Dr Dillner, wolf fire, Bikenut, NavyLCDR, and BluesStringer, thank you one and all for your responses to my last post, I appreciate it.

Firefighterchen, you seem to struggle in reading for content, meaning, and context in the posts of those you disagree with, or perhaps you simply choose to ignore it, I'm not sure which. Likewise, you have a penchant for criticizing that which was never written, stated, nor implied. The line between passion and self righteous is a fine one and I believe we all struggle with it over that which we care deeply about. At this point sir, you're simply being tedious.

Oh please, get over yourself already. It was you who lamented what you perceived as posts that made the discussion personal, yet here you are basically accusing someone of whom you know absolutely nothing of being self-righteous? Chen makes his freakin' living being selfless, so quit with the whining and judgmentalism fer cryin' out loud. He disagrees with you. Get over it.

Blues

 

[CharlesMorrison]

If we don't stick to that strategy we are no better than the anti gun folks who base their decisions solely off of feelings and emotions.

Wait.... In another thread you proposed that we have the God given right to self defense and the God given right to be free from fear, hence, the "right" of others to live free from the fear of "our" guns?!
I am a little confused now.....
In another thread, I expressed my feelings that the fear of an object does not trump my Right. You then say, was it not God who gave us the ability to have feelings and as such, doesn't one have a "Right" to feel safe?
Isn't that the very argument the antis have used time and again to erode our Second Amendment Rights?
So.... Which one is it? Does everyone have the right to live without fear, (good luck with that one!), or is it that Second Amendment Rights come before an irrational emotion?



Sent from behind Enemy Lines.

 

[chilipeppernorm]

Blues, you state "yet here you are basically accusing someone of whom you know absolutely nothing of being self-righteous?" in response to my saying

"The line between passion and self righteous is a fine one and I believe we all struggle with it over that which we care deeply about." This would be commonly understood as an observation, not an accusation. "We all" is all inclusive and has me self identifying with the observation. Is English your second language??

You state "Chen makes his freakin' living being selfless" Fortunately for us as a nation and a people, we have a great many men and women in military and civilian life who have willingly chosen any number of careers and professions that require them to self sacrifice and accept varying degrees of personal risk in order to assist in the well being, health, and safety of the American people. Chen's profession is but one of many in this honorable category, but his career has not been addressed until now (by you) since it has absolutely nothing to do with the topic at hand nor does it confer any extra weight or validity nor does it automatically make him right (or wrong) in his positions or his arguments, unless we're discussing firefighting.

You state "He disagrees with you. Get over it." Well said, practice what you preach.

My original post:


"Ok, I did a search but didn't find this exact topic. If it already exists my apology to all. I have a non-resident CCW for Nevada, Utah, and Florida, and hopefully will acquire a resident permit for CA (not holding my breath). I do have a question, but before I pose it I want to make sure all know that I'm not questioning the right or preference of anyone who chooses open carry. I can see any number of circumstances where open carry convenience may prevail. However, from my perspective I believe that open carry in many public situations, areas, or venues one could be forfeiting a valuable tactical advantage. Simply put, I don't want the general public to know I'm armed, just want to appear as "joe lunchbox" and be mostly ignored unless I have to present my weapon in defense of myself or others, which should be a complete surprise to all and give me that slight edge.

I'm looking for rationales I may have overlooked, but please know that there is no need for anyone to "defend" their choice as I'm not challenging nor criticizing that choice. Thanks in advance."

Thanks to all who responded with how they carry and why.

 

[Firefighterchen]

Wait.... In another thread you proposed that we have the God given right to self defense and the God given right to be free from fear, hence, the "right" of others to live free from the fear of "our" guns?!
I am a little confused now.....
In another thread, I expressed my feelings that the fear of an object does not trump my Right. You then say, was it not God who gave us the ability to have feelings and as such, doesn't one have a "Right" to feel safe?
Isn't that the very argument the antis have used time and again to erode our Second Amendment Rights?
So.... Which one is it? Does everyone have the right to live without fear, (good luck with that one!), or is it that Second Amendment Rights come before an irrational emotion?



Sent from behind Enemy Lines.

You should go back to the other thread and read what I was asking. I'm still thinking about this topic, and have not come to my conclusion yet. Oh...it was also the Right to feel (any emotion), not about the Right to be free of fear. Come on Charles, you gotta be more witty than that to try and trap me.

But inline with this thread, having a Right to feel or not has nothing to do with making a decision based on facts and statistics, or dispelling myths in the same fashion.

 

[Firefighterchen]

I do have a question, but before I pose it I want to make sure all know that I'm not questioning the right or preference of anyone who chooses conceal carry. I can see any number of circumstances where concealed carry convenience may prevail. However, from my perspective I believe that concealed carry in many public situations, areas, or venues one could be mentally unstable for choosing to hide their firearm. Simply put, I don't want to be judge, jury, and executioner and be mostly ignored by criminals and that will give me that slight edge.

I'm looking for rationales I may have overlooked, but please know that there is no need for anyone to "defend" their choice as I'm not challenging nor criticizing that choice. Thanks in advance.

 

[wolf_fire]

I do have a question, but before I pose it I want to make sure all know that I'm not questioning the right or preference of anyone who chooses conceal carry. I can see any number of circumstances where concealed carry convenience may prevail. However, from my perspective I believe that concealed carry in many public situations, areas, or venues one could be mentally unstable for choosing to hide their firearm. Simply put, I don't want to be judge, jury, and executioner and be mostly ignored by criminals and that will give me that slight edge.

I'm looking for rationales I may have overlooked, but please know that there is no need for anyone to "defend" their choice as I'm not challenging nor criticizing that choice. Thanks in advance.

I live in a liberally-minded bigger city. People are sheeple here and their views are that which other liberally minded politicians have stuffed into their head. They "Baaaaaa" along their life and anything that is not in alignment with their views they attack. I've seen evidence for this in a number of ways: you mention that the Affordable Healthcare Act is a mistake, and then suddenly someone calls you an Obama hater; you mention that you think it is sad 60 million unborn babies have been killed since 1973 and someone yells at you that you don't respect a woman's right to choose what she does with her body, etc.

I have not open-carried often, however, in reading forums such as these and ruminating over the information provided I have decided that open carrying is a better choice than concealed carrying. Now what rationale do I have for concealed carrying. Read my first paragraph. I choose to disassociate myself from these types of people as much as I can. The few times I have tried to open carry, I have noticed I am the only one and I do get pointed at more than I like and have had the pushy liberally minded type of folk say things to me. However, one time I had a few people call the police (according to what they said) on me as I walked through downtown Pittsburgh. The police gave me a hassle saying all the usual things, "you know wearing that thing causes people to panic". I pointed out that they wear theirs in the open and people aren't panicking, what makes you more special than me? Apparently, cops don't like that with their responses. When I finally showed them my badge for being in the Reserve Division of the Sheriff's Department, they apologized and let me go, yet still said that I should consider concealed carry since they did this when they were off duty. I hate when LEO's don't get the state laws and worse, when they don't get the Constitution.

So, my rationale Chen, since you asked for it, until I move out of this liberal cesspool and live in a more rural area, I am going to conceal carry to avoid the hassle. Is it emotionally charged? *shrugs* I do know it is personal. I could push the envelope and be active in our 2nd Amendment rights and open carry and help people be more educated, but I do not like dealing with most people and I hate dealing with ignorant cops. I do see however, how it could be easy to be in the habit of concealed carry for so long that I don't ever switch. I hope that this does not become the case. Are my arguments valid? Personally, I don't think so. I think my arguments are selfish. I'll admit that. I do not want to be bothered. I want to go walk around 'under the radar' as much as possible. I want ignorant cops to leave me alone. If I was younger and filled with vinegar and pi$$ I would probably make a stand in our specific city, but I know it would be for the wrong reasons. If I was younger I would be doing it to irritate people not educate them.

So there is your rationale. It is similar to Blues, but with my own wolf flair.

Regardless my way of carrying, I can draw quickly from either type of carry. Open does give me a slight time edge.

 

[Bikenut]

-snip-
So, my rationale Chen, since you asked for it, until I move out of this liberal cesspool and live in a more rural area, I am going to conceal carry to avoid the hassle. Is it emotionally charged? *shrugs* I do know it is personal. I could push the envelope and be active in our 2nd Amendment rights and open carry and help people be more educated, but I do not like dealing with most people and I hate dealing with ignorant cops. I do see however, how it could be easy to be in the habit of concealed carry for so long that I don't ever switch. I hope that this does not become the case. Are my arguments valid? Personally, I don't think so. I think my arguments are selfish. I'll admit that. I do not want to be bothered. I want to go walk around 'under the radar' as much as possible. I want ignorant cops to leave me alone. If I was younger and filled with vinegar and pi$$ I would probably make a stand in our specific city, but I know it would be for the wrong reasons. If I was younger I would be doing it to irritate people not educate them.

So there is your rationale. It is similar to Blues, but with my own wolf flair.

-snip-

First off Wolf.... I admire your honesty about the portion of your post I underlined for emphasis above.

Food for thought directed at everyone.... not just you Wolf...

If you don't think the right to bear arms is worth being bothered, or worth standing out from the crowd, or worth being hassled by ignorant cops................ who will? Who will actually stand up for the right to bear arms if all that is needed stop people from legally exercising the right is to make folks afraid of being bothered, being noticed, being ridiculed, being laughed at, or even being hassled by the cops? Once folks are afraid to legally exercise the right to bear arms by open carrying then the anti's, the liberals, and the gun control freaks..................... win. Again.

 

[CharlesMorrison]

You should go back to the other thread and read what I was asking. I'm still thinking about this topic, and have not come to my conclusion yet. Oh...it was also the Right to feel (any emotion), not about the Right to be free of fear. Come on Charles, you gotta be more witty than that to try and trap me.

But inline with this thread, having a Right to feel or not has nothing to do with making a decision based on facts and statistics, or dispelling myths in the same fashion.

Ouch! Point taken Sir. Not trying to use a play on words. I honestly read you post incorrectly.
No harm intended.


Sent from behind enemy lines.

 

[Firefighterchen]

Wolf, I'm not sure if you noticed, but that last post was basically a copy of the op first post, but I changed the method of carry and the myth about most gun owners. It was too show no matter how many times they say they aren't questioning, challenging, or criticizing, if the message that follows is full of **** that is exactly what they were doing.

 

[Firefighterchen]

Ouch! Point taken Sir. Not trying to use a play on words. I honestly read you post incorrectly.
No harm intended.


Sent from behind enemy lines.

No harm done. You know, I'd like to say it's human nature to feel, it's human nature to defend ourselves, both should be equally important and inalienable, but we all know the politicians in control think "inalienable" is meant only for space aliens...I mean it's right there in the word itself. Solid political definition, right along with "assault weapons."

 

[wolf_fire]

First off Wolf.... I admire your honesty about the portion of your post I underlined for emphasis above.

Food for thought directed at everyone.... not just you Wolf...

If you don't think the right to bear arms is worth being bothered, or worth standing out from the crowd, or worth being hassled by ignorant cops................ who will? Who will actually stand up for the right to bear arms if all that is needed stop people from legally exercising the right is to make folks afraid of being bothered, being noticed, being ridiculed, being laughed at, or even being hassled by the cops? Once folks are afraid to legally exercise the right to bear arms by open carrying then the anti's, the liberals, and the gun control freaks..................... win. Again.

I can't argue this, and you are correct. How I fight for the 2nd Amendment is at the voting booth, is on the phone calling my representatives, is on the email writing my representatives, is donating to groups that do fight for our rights, etc.

However, the personal, in the trenches fight where I am in the public and being harassed, is not my style. If this is selfish, then I will admit, I'm a bit selfish and want to be left alone.

 

[Chief1297]

Good read everyone. First, I think it was on page 4 but a military installation is a free fire zone or a No gun carry area. Second, my practice is to OC when in noncrowded scenarios and constitutes 75% of my carry. I will CC the other 25% if the crowds thicken up and I am unable to evaluate the people around me. Sometimes my "spidey sense" tells me to cover up or uncover for that matter and I usually listen. I make these decisions based on my perceived threat level at the time and my past training. I think an OC'd weapon serves as a deterent for the most part and I find it a lot easier to get it into play if needed. Everyone is free to disagree or agree as they see fit. I wont argue as my determination to OC or CC is my own, just like the ramifications are mine alone if I am incorrect in doing either one. I just prefer to have the choice and feel it is an "infringement" if the choice is taken away. I know some folks (politicians, lawyers, judges, liberals, etc) have problems with the meaning of the word but I dont.