Concealed vs Open carry

C

chilipeppernorm

New member
Ok, I did a search but didn't find this exact topic. If it already exists my apology to all. I have a non-resident CCW for Nevada, Utah, and Florida, and hopefully will acquire a resident permit for CA (not holding my breath). I do have a question, but before I pose it I want to make sure all know that I'm not questioning the right or preference of anyone who chooses open carry. I can see any number of circumstances where open carry convenience may prevail. However, from my perspective I believe that open carry in many public situations, areas, or venues one could be forfeiting a valuable tactical advantage. Simply put, I don't want the general public to know I'm armed, just want to appear as "joe lunchbox" and be mostly ignored unless I have to present my weapon in defense of myself or others, which should be a complete surprise to all and give me that slight edge.

I'm looking for rationales I may have overlooked, but please know that there is no need for anyone to "defend" their choice as I'm not challenging nor criticizing that choice. Thanks in advance.
 
I think CC is better. If you OC some sort of soft latch would be necessary to keep someone from pulling your gun out of the holster while you were distracted.
 
If OC'ing, I would use either a lanyard or even better get a retention holster for the reasons that Dr. Dillner said. I like the Blackhawk Serpa holster.

Another way of looking at CC vs OC: You say you'd rather not let anyone know you are carrying. However, there is another school of thought, it's the "deterrent". You carry so that way you may spring into action if the situation deems itself necessary. The OC'er carries so that the BG knows, don't do your business near me and deters the crime from happening in the first place.

If a BG were about to rob a place and saw someone OC'ing, there are two thoughts, does the BG take out the OC'er and then rob the place, or does the BG just pick a new place to rob that won't give him as much trouble?

With you CC'ing that BG will definitely still rob that place, but if you were OC'ing then he might think twice.

In other words, if OC'ing, then the BG will definitely take you into consideration first... it may be you are too much of a deterrent and they will leave you alone (most likely) or he might think that store or whatever is too tempting to him that he will take you out first just to rob the place (less likely). If you were CC'ing he wouldn't take you into consideration at all and treat you like all the other hostage sheeple in the vicinity. This could give you a tactical edge if you had a moment to analyze the situation and he hasn't taken control of the area first or shot you since his gun was out and yours was stowed under your shirt and in your pants.

Those are things to consider. I'm not advocating one or the other. Carry the way you want, be situationally aware of your surroundings at all time, and train for the way you carry. If the BG gets the jump on you, he will be able to always shoot first.

Another question, are criminals usually cowards and prey on the weak? Mull that one in your head thinking about your choice in the way that you carry.
 
OC puts a "target" on my back. To me this is equivalent to having a flashlight or even a laser on the end of my firearm (I am talking home defense now and not "in the middle of the woods darkness)----I know where I am, I know my surroundings (in my home) better than the BG and in the dark and I am not about to give up that advantage by advertising my location; I also know what I have to defend myself and I do not wish to share any of it and that includes "advertising" a firearm. Probably in those states where this is very common and it is not unusual to see someone walking around OC, it is a bit different, but in states where it is not common, I am not about to stand out from crowd and advertise.
 
The following is a bit long but is offered as food for thought....

The question about open carry vs concealed carry comes up quite often and generally folks think concealed carry offers a tactical advantage called "the element of surprise"...

About that "element of surprise" thing..........

CC and OC have the very same "element of surprise" because the "element of surprise" is really nothing more than the bad guy being "surprised" to discover his intended victim ..... has a gun.

With CC the bad guy is "surprised" to see his intended victim has a gun to defend himself with after the bad guy has already chosen his victim and the attack is already in progress and at that point seeing the gun can make the bad guy decide to stop the attack.

With OC the bad guy is "surprised" to see his intended victim has a gun to defend himself with during the bad guy's choosing a victim process and at that point seeing the gun can make the bad guy decide not to attack at all.

But either way... it was the bad guy being "surprised" to see a gun that was the actual "element of surprise".

Quite frankly... I'd prefer the bad guy be "surprised" to see my openly carried gun and decide not to attack me so I can go home and watch the 6 o'clock news coverage .... from the comfort of my easy chair..... about the CC'er who had to pull his gun and "surprise" the bad guy who attacked him.

Does OC's "element of surprise" really work? Well.... there have been thousands of folks open carrying in many States (Like Arizona) for decades! and yet accounts of folks OC'ing being attacked are rare. And you know with the anti gun media any incident involving an open carrier being attacked would be covered over and over and over yet such has not been the case in the past nor is it now.

And, in my not so humble opinion, because CC's use of the "element of surprise" is only effective after the attack has begun but OC's use of the "element of surprise" can prevent an attack from happening............. OC's use of the "element of surprise" is far superior to CC's because....

I'd much rather watch the 6 o'clock news than to BE the news.

About the idea that open carry makes a person a target for the bad guys.... just taking a few moments for a google search looking for incidents where that has actually happened in any significant number (bearing in mind folks have been open carrying in States like Arizona for decades so if it actually has happened there should be plenty of easy to find incidents to uphold that idea) will give folks some facts instead of an oft repeated myth to form their opinion from.

Also... if we are to be intellectually honest... once we discover how many open carriers have been attacked (targeted) because their gun can be seen we should compare that number with how many concealed carriers have been attacked because their gun couldn't be seen... and then draw our conclusions from actual facts instead of any "element of surprise" myths.

Lastly, in my not so humble opinion, people should carry in any way they decide to be the best for them personally. I just wish folks would take into account facts instead of myths when they are making that decision.
 
but the ccw guy can prevent that punk from going on to attack others in other places, perhaps permanently, and also send a message to other punks like him. You left out that part.
 
thru said:
but the ccw guy can prevent that punk from going on to attack others in other places, perhaps permanently, and also send a message to other punks like him. You left out that part.
Click to expand...
Are you suggesting that one of the purposes of concealed carry is to shoot "punks" to prevent those "punks" from attacking someone else?
 
Bikenut:
Check thru's past posts, nothing positive in them.
Looks like a troll to me. I've seen enough and have added him to the ignore list.
 
Bikenut said:
Are you suggesting that one of the purposes of concealed carry is to shoot "punks" to prevent those "punks" from attacking someone else?
Click to expand...

Cowboy...judge, jury, and executioner.

To the OP:

The possibilities should always be entertained, but real world situations should play a big impact on the final decision.

Open carry has caused a carrier to be a target in only a couple questionable situations. There are more documented cases of open carriers deterring crimes, or being totally ignored during the crime. And thousands more on blogs and forums.

It's perspective. What you consider a tactical advantage I see as being behind the curve. Yes there are situations where you could have an advantage if given the time and opportunity, hence why I normally cc a backup. My primary defense is stopping the criminal during his observation (O of ooda), not his action (A of ooda).

Sent from my HTCONE using USA Carry mobile app
 
GB-Boater said:
Bikenut:
Check thru's past posts, nothing positive in them.
Looks like a troll to me. I've seen enough and have added him to the ignore list.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the heads up! I believe that all negative posts need to be countered with a positive post or a challenge for the negativity to be proven so it can be shown to be bogus simply because if the negativity isn't addressed some folks who read that stuff might take it as truth.

And anyone who thinks the purpose of carrying a gun, openly or concealed, is to "permanently prevent punks" from attacking innocents is... in my not so humble opinion... carrying a gun with a vigilante frame of mind. And that is NOT good.
 
thru said:
but the ccw guy can prevent that punk from going on to attack others in other places, perhaps permanently, and also send a message to other punks like him. You left out that part.
Click to expand...

NIP IT IN THE BUD!
barney-fife-cbs-200-b.jpg
 
chilipeppernorm said:
Ok, I did a search but didn't find this exact topic. If it already exists my apology to all. I have a non-resident CCW for Nevada, Utah, and Florida, and hopefully will acquire a resident permit for CA (not holding my breath). I do have a question, but before I pose it I want to make sure all know that I'm not questioning the right or preference of anyone who chooses open carry. I can see any number of circumstances where open carry convenience may prevail. However, from my perspective I believe that open carry in many public situations, areas, or venues one could be forfeiting a valuable tactical advantage. Simply put, I don't want the general public to know I'm armed, just want to appear as "joe lunchbox" and be mostly ignored unless I have to present my weapon in defense of myself or others, which should be a complete surprise to all and give me that slight edge.

I'm looking for rationales I may have overlooked, but please know that there is no need for anyone to "defend" their choice as I'm not challenging nor criticizing that choice. Thanks in advance.
Click to expand...

http://www.usacarry.com/forums/open-carry-discussion/7230-open-carry-argument.html

http://www.usacarry.com/forums/open-carry-discussion/19286-10-reasons-open-carry.html

http://www.usacarry.com/forums/open-carry-discussion/19392-why-open-carry-bad-strategy.html

www.opencarry.org

Sent from my HTCONE using USA Carry mobile app
 
Both modes of carry have their advantages and disadvantages. It's up to each person to decide evaluate those advantages and disadvantages and decide which mode of carry is best for themselves. Personally, I only carry concealed, but if I lived in a part of the state that wasn't so rabidly anti gun, I'd probably OC more often. I often hear about the "tactical" advantage of CC, but the way I see it, If the BG can't tell that you're carrying, then your concealed gun won't help you until after the BG has already begun accosting you.
 
I'm all in favor of open carry, it's just not for me. If there were a lot of people around me who open carried, I might then, occasionally, but I've never seen even one.
In a room of 20 people, one person who open carries MIGHT be a deterrent for a bad guy. In a room of 20 people where half of them are open carrying, that would definitely be a deterrent!
 
If you are robbed at gun point while CC'ing.... You have no "element of surprise".
What you do have is called "behind the curve" REACTION.
Either way, carry as you can and practice often.


Sent from behind Enemy Lines.
 
thru said:
but the ccw guy can prevent that punk from going on to attack others in other places, perhaps permanently, and also send a message to other punks like him. You left out that part.
Click to expand...

This "gem of an answer" comes from a firearms instructor?!?!
Time to seek another hobby my friend...... Just pointing out the obvious..


Sent from behind Enemy Lines.
 
A casual search hasn't produced any reliable or definable data on the superior effect of either OC or CC in the prevention of assault on citizens licensed to carry that I can find. However, years of reading the Armed Citizen in the American Rifleman magazine of the NRA does demonstrate that anyone who has ready and immediate access to a weapon in whatever stored form and is prepared and fully willing to use it in their defense or the defense of others is highly effective in halting or deterring criminals. It would be a mistake to assume all criminals are cowards, however many are highly experienced at violence and generally operate as ambush predators. They often don't operate alone but in concert with others. In these circumstances I believe OC vs CC takes a backseat to situational awareness and strategic planning and execution. Regardless of how we carry, training and practice will be our best defense when the unthinkable happens. As one of my favorite firearms instructors always points out, "action ALWAYS beats reaction". Be safe all.
 
You should have been there when Hack had people shooting right past each other, for "experience" at such things. :-) Even Ayoob says that if you hit them with a bullet at all, it's best to kill them, altho he words it more tactfully. action does not ALWAYS beat reaction, either. SOME people's reaction is a LOT faster than other people's action. :-) their nervous system is trained and so are their hands/arms, so they are far more efficient at the job. I can let you draw first, from ccw, and beat you quite easily (me from ccw) as a matter of fact. all it takes is for you to be using a stupid ankle rig and me be starting with "hand in pocket", and I'll empty most of the mag into you before you can fire a shot, after I wait so see you kneel in order to pull up your pant-leg. 6 shot mag, total time to react, draw and get 4 hits on the chest, at 6 ft or so of distance? sub 1.5 seconds. Sometimes, I can do this in 1.2 seconds
 
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