Treo
Bullet Proof
Did you mean to say
Jesus did not need protection when he traveled. He was protected by Devine Intervention until it was time for prophesy to be full filed
God & the Bible, squaring belief with reality
- Thread starter PestControl02
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Did you mean to say
Jesus did not need protection when he traveled. He was protected by Devine Intervention until it was time for prophesy to be full filed
Shoobee
Banned
I guess he will fix it later.
PestControl02
New member
Galatians 4 & 5
So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.
Stand fast therefore in the liberty by which Christ has made us free, and do not be
entangled again with a yoke of bondage."
"You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by law;
you have fallen from grace"
"For you brethren have been called to liberty; only do not use liberty as an opportunity of the flesh
but through love serve one another"
These are some of my favorite passages...only recently re-discovered. Some criticize for reading the same Book over & over..but this is exactly why, new found knowledge almost every time..and what are the chances that I found this after I started the thread. Divine intervention, indeed.
So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.
Stand fast therefore in the liberty by which Christ has made us free, and do not be
entangled again with a yoke of bondage."
"You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by law;
you have fallen from grace"
"For you brethren have been called to liberty; only do not use liberty as an opportunity of the flesh
but through love serve one another"
These are some of my favorite passages...only recently re-discovered. Some criticize for reading the same Book over & over..but this is exactly why, new found knowledge almost every time..and what are the chances that I found this after I started the thread. Divine intervention, indeed.
Shoobee
Banned
There could be other prophets today who have spoken with Jesus face to face, same as St Paul did, or Moses with YHVH.
You cannot say "no one in this world knows ... ."
You can only testify that you yourself do not know.
And you can only assume that everyone else is just like you.
I'll bet Outlaw knows. Why would he lie?
Apparently from your own statement you do not believe him then.
I'll bet there are lots of prophets. Anyone who has seen Jesus face to face is a prophet, just like St Paul or Moses of ancient times.
And apparently Jesus visits people, although not everyone.
Woops! I ment didn't need protection. That's what I get for not reading what I wrote before I hit send.
AppliedPerspective
New member
A lightbulb for those who need some illumination
Agreed. My pastor encourages this continually.
I have no qualms with birth control, personally, but I respect the Catholic stance on the issue. From my understanding, the Catholic church is against birth control because it allows men and women to negate (some of) the consequences of pre-marital sex. And if you take away the possibility of a man needing to take responsibility for his sexual actions, it encourages a devaluation of women. A man who can go screw whoever he feels like and not worry about it because she's on birth control or he slapped some rubber on is a man who can easily come to regard women as objects and playthings instead of partners and helpmeets.
So his heaven would be packed with criminals and deadbeats... Oh, like his supper table? Also, I kind of seem to recall maybe there was something in there about "All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God" and "Anyone who breaks even a small part of the law is guilty of breaking all of it" and "I tell you the truth, if a man even looks at a woman with lust in his heart, it is the same as if he had committed adultery with her". According to all that, a) every one is a criminal and dead beat, b) I suck just as much as you do c) we are all unworthy of God's grace d) I'm a liar, cheat, adulterer, thief, murderer, etc. and so are you e) everyone sucks f) no one is worthy of entrance into heaven g) I don't know how many times I have to restate the same point before you get it through your thick skull
I don't know who started it, but I agree, you're not going to get any special reward in heaven because you went and blew up a coffee shop
Deut 18:4 "You are to give him the fristfruits of your grain, new wine... (the list goes on)" Lev 27:30 "A tithe of everything from the land, whether grain from the soil or fruit from the trees belongs to the Lord..." Deut 12:17 "You must not eat in your own towns the tithe of your grain and new wine and olive oil, or the firstborn of your herds and flocks, or whatever you have vowed to give, or your freewill offerings or special gifts." (Notice the distinction between the "tithe" (or tenth) and the freewill offerings and other gifts. Mark 12:41-44 "Jesus sat down opposite the place where the offerings were put and watched the crowd putting their money into the temple treasury. Many rich people threw in large amounts. But a poor widow came and put in two very small copper coins, worth only a few cents. Calling his disciples to him, Jesus said, 'Truly I tell you, this poor widow has put more into the treasury than all the others. They all gave out of their wealth; but she, out of her poverty, put in everything—all she had to live on.'" (also found in Luke 21) If you can find ANY Biblical basis for your position, I'd love to see it, because I've got pages to support mine.
God tells us over and over again He will provide for us. I refer you to Luke 12:22-34 "...Consider how the wild flowers grow. They do not labor or spin. Yet I tell you, not even Solomon in all his splendor was dressed like one of these..." Please go read the rest. My post is getting too long already.
Not all miracles are big, earth-shattering ordeals. Every sunrise is a miracle. Every breath, every beat of a bird's wings, every lost item found. Miracles never cease, and are everywhere. You just need to appreciate them for what they are.
We are all God's creation, and he loves everyone. However, we are not all God's children. That title is reserved for those who have accepted their inheritance as brothers and sisters of Christ, through Christ's blood sacrifice. The very nature of God (as omniscient and omnipotent) shows that God does indeed know our every move. "Before I formed you in your mother's womb, I knew you" and all that.
My personal theory on the unchanging nature of God is that God, and heaven, exist outside of space-time. Perhaps in a different dimension or universe altogether. If one can remove themselves from space-time at will, they can then insert themselves back in at any point and be the same at the beginning of time as at the end of it. I do not believe that our concept of time is something that contains God.
But that's science, which I'm told by so many self-assured liberals has no place in a religious discussion :jester:
Agreed. My pastor encourages this continually.
I have no qualms with birth control, personally, but I respect the Catholic stance on the issue. From my understanding, the Catholic church is against birth control because it allows men and women to negate (some of) the consequences of pre-marital sex. And if you take away the possibility of a man needing to take responsibility for his sexual actions, it encourages a devaluation of women. A man who can go screw whoever he feels like and not worry about it because she's on birth control or he slapped some rubber on is a man who can easily come to regard women as objects and playthings instead of partners and helpmeets.
So his heaven would be packed with criminals and deadbeats... Oh, like his supper table? Also, I kind of seem to recall maybe there was something in there about "All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God" and "Anyone who breaks even a small part of the law is guilty of breaking all of it" and "I tell you the truth, if a man even looks at a woman with lust in his heart, it is the same as if he had committed adultery with her". According to all that, a) every one is a criminal and dead beat, b) I suck just as much as you do c) we are all unworthy of God's grace d) I'm a liar, cheat, adulterer, thief, murderer, etc. and so are you e) everyone sucks f) no one is worthy of entrance into heaven g) I don't know how many times I have to restate the same point before you get it through your thick skull
I don't know who started it, but I agree, you're not going to get any special reward in heaven because you went and blew up a coffee shop
Deut 18:4 "You are to give him the fristfruits of your grain, new wine... (the list goes on)" Lev 27:30 "A tithe of everything from the land, whether grain from the soil or fruit from the trees belongs to the Lord..." Deut 12:17 "You must not eat in your own towns the tithe of your grain and new wine and olive oil, or the firstborn of your herds and flocks, or whatever you have vowed to give, or your freewill offerings or special gifts." (Notice the distinction between the "tithe" (or tenth) and the freewill offerings and other gifts. Mark 12:41-44 "Jesus sat down opposite the place where the offerings were put and watched the crowd putting their money into the temple treasury. Many rich people threw in large amounts. But a poor widow came and put in two very small copper coins, worth only a few cents. Calling his disciples to him, Jesus said, 'Truly I tell you, this poor widow has put more into the treasury than all the others. They all gave out of their wealth; but she, out of her poverty, put in everything—all she had to live on.'" (also found in Luke 21) If you can find ANY Biblical basis for your position, I'd love to see it, because I've got pages to support mine.
God tells us over and over again He will provide for us. I refer you to Luke 12:22-34 "...Consider how the wild flowers grow. They do not labor or spin. Yet I tell you, not even Solomon in all his splendor was dressed like one of these..." Please go read the rest. My post is getting too long already.
Not all miracles are big, earth-shattering ordeals. Every sunrise is a miracle. Every breath, every beat of a bird's wings, every lost item found. Miracles never cease, and are everywhere. You just need to appreciate them for what they are.
We are all God's creation, and he loves everyone. However, we are not all God's children. That title is reserved for those who have accepted their inheritance as brothers and sisters of Christ, through Christ's blood sacrifice. The very nature of God (as omniscient and omnipotent) shows that God does indeed know our every move. "Before I formed you in your mother's womb, I knew you" and all that.
My personal theory on the unchanging nature of God is that God, and heaven, exist outside of space-time. Perhaps in a different dimension or universe altogether. If one can remove themselves from space-time at will, they can then insert themselves back in at any point and be the same at the beginning of time as at the end of it. I do not believe that our concept of time is something that contains God.
But that's science, which I'm told by so many self-assured liberals has no place in a religious discussion :jester:
BC1
,
I know everything. Didn't you know that? just ask my wife... :fie: :lol: :laugh:
Shoobee
Banned
Good sermon, AppliedPers, and good research also.
I think that as long as good pilgrims don't go overboard, they will do ok by being pious.
It's when they go overboard that they fall off the deep end.
I believe and suspect that God(s) live out in the universe somewhere, probably near the center of the galaxies.
Apparently they get married and have kids, because our God married Mary of Nazareth and had a son Jesus the Christ. In the Greek language the words for "overshadowed" mean marriage in ancient Greek. The Highest is also an English-ized version of Dynamos which in Greek means the same as Elohim in Hebrew which means The Almighty or The All-powerful or The Judges in English.
Anyway its a lot more complicated than anyone thinks.
golocx4
Got Beretta's?
The "HARBINGER" (sign) tries to "Square belief with reality"
View it here, takes about 20 minutes. It is really very interesting.
Jonathan Cahn 1 on It's Supernatural with Sid Roth - Harbinger the Warning - YouTube
Bottom line, the USA has deviated from a promise that was made by the First POTUS to the Almighty.
Who are the ones that perpetuate and demand this deviation from this nation being a Christian Nation.
Who is so damn afraid of our heritage that they spend millions to remove any trace of God from our nation.
Why is it so freakin necessary for them to remove GOD from anything in our lives?
Without God you have no inalienable rights you only have rights allowed by other men. kind of like NYC and Chicago if you know what I mean.
Ask your minister to make Sunday November 4th a National Day of Prayer asking for guidance on November 6th 2012 and go to church that day and pray for the United States. Pray for the world,,,,,,,,,,or not.
View it here, takes about 20 minutes. It is really very interesting.
Jonathan Cahn 1 on It's Supernatural with Sid Roth - Harbinger the Warning - YouTube
Bottom line, the USA has deviated from a promise that was made by the First POTUS to the Almighty.
Who are the ones that perpetuate and demand this deviation from this nation being a Christian Nation.
Who is so damn afraid of our heritage that they spend millions to remove any trace of God from our nation.
Why is it so freakin necessary for them to remove GOD from anything in our lives?
Without God you have no inalienable rights you only have rights allowed by other men. kind of like NYC and Chicago if you know what I mean.
Ask your minister to make Sunday November 4th a National Day of Prayer asking for guidance on November 6th 2012 and go to church that day and pray for the United States. Pray for the world,,,,,,,,,,or not.
gunnerbob
PEW Professional
This is not true. This is how you rationalize it, but it is not how others do. Whether you choose to recieve your rights from god or not, we all have natural rights simply b/c we are human. In fact, all beings have natural rights(some differ from man)... animals have a right to life, property(what's theirs), speech(they communicate too), etc.
I'll try to put it this way... our natural rights are truisms, much like gravity. We all know about gravity and what it does, we don't need to have it explained to us b/c it simply is. No matter what law may be passed to suspend gravity, it can't eliminate it. Our natural rights are the same, our yearnings as humans include life, speech, privacy, property, love, companionship, etc. No law passed to suppress these yearnings will eliminate them. These, are our natural rights.
If one chooses to recieve their rights from god, so be it. However, many believe(me included) that our natural rights exist simply b/c we're beings(in our case, human).
Now, I know some will try to tell me that "well, they(rights) still come from god whether you accept it or not"... sorry, you're not going to convert me. I've researched, researched, and researched(I will con't to) and I haven't discovered a strong enough argument to make me a believer. I have my own other personal reasons for not, but those are my reasons to know.
However, if one chooses to believe, great! That is your right!
Cheers
SGB
New member
The Only truism in Nature is survival of the Strongest. The Strong live, the weak die. Remove God and morality from the human equation and we're no different than the animals. Alexander, Attila, Napoleon, Hitler, Stalin, Pol pot, Saddam Husein ........... absent God evil wins.
gunnerbob
PEW Professional
Your argument doesn't dispute what I wrote, remember what I said about garavity... no matter what someone does to deny others their natural rights, those rights are still there. I am not disputing evil, and the "survival of the fittest" mantra... but that belief doesn't disprove the fact that our natural rights exist.
golocx4
Got Beretta's?
Your point is noted. And I won't say that you are wrong. Animals rights are bestowed on them by people, unless you mean that fox has the right to kill and eat a mouse because it is bigger and stronger. What then does that say to one country to the lesser country. History tells us that.
However in the context of the US Government, the Deceleration of Independence makes it clear
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness ...........
.....We, therefore, the Representatives of the united States of America, in General Congress, Assembled, appealing to the Supreme Judge of the world for the rectitude of our intentions, do, in the Name, and by Authority of the good People of these Colonies, solemnly publish and declare, That these united Colonies are, and of Right ought to be Free and Independent States, that they are Absolved from all Allegiance to the British Crown, and that all political connection between them and the State of Great Britain, is and ought to be totally dissolved; and that as Free and Independent States, they have full Power to levy War, conclude Peace, contract Alliances, establish Commerce, and to do all other Acts and Things which Independent States may of right do. — And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of Divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes, and our sacred Honor.
which begat
We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.
My point though is I believe that my Rights come from the blood of the founders who died to make sure that certain rights were never deemed as a gift from a king or other men, but from the Creator.
However in the context of the US Government, the Deceleration of Independence makes it clear
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness ...........
.....We, therefore, the Representatives of the united States of America, in General Congress, Assembled, appealing to the Supreme Judge of the world for the rectitude of our intentions, do, in the Name, and by Authority of the good People of these Colonies, solemnly publish and declare, That these united Colonies are, and of Right ought to be Free and Independent States, that they are Absolved from all Allegiance to the British Crown, and that all political connection between them and the State of Great Britain, is and ought to be totally dissolved; and that as Free and Independent States, they have full Power to levy War, conclude Peace, contract Alliances, establish Commerce, and to do all other Acts and Things which Independent States may of right do. — And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of Divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes, and our sacred Honor.
which begat
We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.
My point though is I believe that my Rights come from the blood of the founders who died to make sure that certain rights were never deemed as a gift from a king or other men, but from the Creator.
The_Outlaw
~The Dude Abides~
Just because someone does not believe in something does not make it false either.
Case in point,
I have never actually seen a real living T Rex, I personally could choose to say that since I have never seen a real living T Rex that they must have never existed. Then someone could take me to a museum and show me the bones of a T Rex and I could still choose to say, "How do I know that those bones are not fake?"
Etc...Etc...
Two of the all time greatest scientific minds (Albert Einstein and Isaac Newton) both believed that the universe must have been formed by a higher intelligence (God) because of the complexity and perfect order of everything involved.
Isaac Newton (1642-1727)
In optics, mechanics, and mathematics, Newton was a figure of undisputed genius and innovation. In all his science (including chemistry) he saw mathematics and numbers as central. What is less well known is that he was devoutly religious and saw numbers as involved in understanding God's plan for history from the Bible. He did a considerable work on biblical numerology, and, though aspects of his beliefs were not orthodox, he thought theology was very important. In his system of physics, God was essential to the nature and absoluteness of space. In Principia he stated, "The most beautiful system of the sun, planets, and comets, could only proceed from the counsel and dominion of an intelligent and powerful Being."
Albert Einstein (1879-1955)
Einstein is probably the best known and most highly revered scientist of the twentieth century, and is associated with major revolutions in our thinking about time, gravity, and the conversion of matter to energy (E=mc2). Although never coming to belief in a personal God, he recognized the impossibility of a non-created universe. The Encyclopedia Britannica says of him: "Firmly denying atheism, Einstein expressed a belief in "Spinoza's God who reveals himself in the harmony of what exists." This actually motivated his interest in science, as he once remarked to a young physicist: "I want to know how God created this world, I am not interested in this or that phenomenon, in the spectrum of this or that element. I want to know His thoughts, the rest are details." Einstein's famous epithet on the "uncertainty principle" was "God does not play dice" - and to him this was a real statement about a God in whom he believed. A famous saying of his was "Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."
Famous Scientists Who Believed in God
gunnerbob
PEW Professional
To: golocx4
Again, all beings have natural rights, including animals. This statement doesn't ensure survival, as with humans... another human can deny you life. As can one animal deny another animal life, or an animal deny a human life, yes. Beings' having natural rights doesn't mean those rights will never be in peril. All beings also have the natural right to self-defense, like humans do(using guns nowadays)... so, do not be confused about having natural rights, ensuring those rights won't be placed in danger... it doesn't. All beings must struggle to preserve those natural rights from others who choose to take them. This does not mean those rights don't exist, they are enternal or inalienable.
From whomever you wish to recieve them.
While the Constitution references our "Creator", it also protects humans' right to NOT believe in one. This non-belief doesn't eliminate those same inalienable rights existing, for the Founders new that those rights, those natural rights, are a virtue of being of this Earth... of being alive. It doesn't take a belief in a god to have morals and ethics, this premise is a fallacy.
Again, I'm not debating the existence/non-existence of god. I have decided to believe what I want, as have those who believe in god. I don't care what someone believes or uses to drive their life in a positive direction, as long as they are good people.
Cheers
Again, all beings have natural rights, including animals. This statement doesn't ensure survival, as with humans... another human can deny you life. As can one animal deny another animal life, or an animal deny a human life, yes. Beings' having natural rights doesn't mean those rights will never be in peril. All beings also have the natural right to self-defense, like humans do(using guns nowadays)... so, do not be confused about having natural rights, ensuring those rights won't be placed in danger... it doesn't. All beings must struggle to preserve those natural rights from others who choose to take them. This does not mean those rights don't exist, they are enternal or inalienable.
From whomever you wish to recieve them.
While the Constitution references our "Creator", it also protects humans' right to NOT believe in one. This non-belief doesn't eliminate those same inalienable rights existing, for the Founders new that those rights, those natural rights, are a virtue of being of this Earth... of being alive. It doesn't take a belief in a god to have morals and ethics, this premise is a fallacy.
Again, I'm not debating the existence/non-existence of god. I have decided to believe what I want, as have those who believe in god. I don't care what someone believes or uses to drive their life in a positive direction, as long as they are good people.
Cheers
Shoobee
Banned
As do I, I also believe the precision and complexity of the known universe is ample evidence of the handiwork of a magnificent Creator.
And his Son as an emissary apparently visits others, as well. Or so St. Paul found out. And so some others have found out also.
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