I just saw that! I think it is great news for him and his family.
*Bloodied Image of Zimmerman's Head Released*
- Thread starter The_Outlaw
- Start date
I just saw that! I think it is great news for him and his family.
LOL It is going to be HUGE! Countdown to the anti-gun zealots starts in . . . . . three, two, . . . .
Why SHOULD we be privvy to all of the evidence? So the media and politicians can take that evidence and spin it to meet their own desires, rather than as a determination of what actually happened?
And let's examine this as well: someone starts a fight with you. You fight back, unarmed. You begin to get the upper hand in the fight that the other person started. At what point are you required to stop fighting back and at what point is the person who started the fight able to lawfully use deadly force to stop you?
Let's just say, ONLY for the sake of argument, that Zimmerman did start the fight with Martin. Let's say that Martin fought back, and in so doing, gained the upper hand and did end up on top of Zimmerman banging his head against the sidewalk. At what point should Martin be legally required to stop fighting back? At what point would Zimmerman be justified in killing Martin in self defense while Martin was fighting back against in an encounter that he did not start?
And let's examine this as well: someone starts a fight with you. You fight back, unarmed. You begin to get the upper hand in the fight that the other person started. At what point are you required to stop fighting back and at what point is the person who started the fight able to lawfully use deadly force to stop you?
Let's just say, ONLY for the sake of argument, that Zimmerman did start the fight with Martin. Let's say that Martin fought back, and in so doing, gained the upper hand and did end up on top of Zimmerman banging his head against the sidewalk. At what point should Martin be legally required to stop fighting back? At what point would Zimmerman be justified in killing Martin in self defense while Martin was fighting back against in an encounter that he did not start?
I wasn't suggesting we should be privy to any information at all. Just shows that there is more to this story than any of us know, which is a good thing on all counts. I have no need to know it all when it comes to stuff like this. As a matter of fact, I think there is so much that is told via news outlets, social media, etc. that is detrimental to all.
OMG! Too funny. At the time of reading this post I am listening to Robert Plant's "Little By Little."
I watched the hearing today and I take issue with your "FACTS" here. Zimmerman was never told not to follow Martin. He was told "We don't need you to do that" which can be interpreted to mean a lot of things but you cannot say that he was told NOT to follow him. Secondly and it was brought out in court today that there is not one bit of evidence presented so far, and the Investigator admitted it, that GZ followed TM any more after the conversation with the dispatcher and supposedly being told not to follow. The only evidence the investigator could offer for saying that GZ followed TM was that a witness saw some shadows that could just have easily been TM's as GZ's. This was the same investigator that claimed the only person who has identified the voice on the tape is TM's mother. Evidently he did not read the interviews with his father where his father said they were not TM's. Plainly the investigators did not write the affidavit.
localgirl
New member
There are so many what-ifs and maybes in this case. The whole thing just stinks.
There's someone who appears to be a wanna-be cop. There's a kid who appears to be both innocent and a dangerous drug dealer. There's a guy doing neighborhood watch, and a 911 call telling him to back off (maybe), then evidence that may or may not be racist.
Following someone is not illegal. Even if it makes someone uncomfortable, there's an expectation that you verbalize your discomfort. Even then, you can't touch them unless you are defending yourself. No matter how much a guy irritates you, you can't beat his head on the pavement.
But was his head beaten? That's not much blood for a head wound. Not much at all. And wasn't his nose supposed to be smashed? He showed up at the police station looking really clean.
And even if you are in an altercation, like Navy said, at what point do you stop? At what point can you use deadly force? If a six foot tall athletic black man is beating my head against the pavement, I'm probably justified, but would you be? How tall are you? How fit? How much do you weigh? Could you have pushed him off? Or even said STOP? Or even said STOP OR I WILL SHOOT?
Add to this you've got biased reports, doctored evidence, and inflammatory pictures.
It all just stinks and I can't imagine any outcome will be good.
There's someone who appears to be a wanna-be cop. There's a kid who appears to be both innocent and a dangerous drug dealer. There's a guy doing neighborhood watch, and a 911 call telling him to back off (maybe), then evidence that may or may not be racist.
Following someone is not illegal. Even if it makes someone uncomfortable, there's an expectation that you verbalize your discomfort. Even then, you can't touch them unless you are defending yourself. No matter how much a guy irritates you, you can't beat his head on the pavement.
But was his head beaten? That's not much blood for a head wound. Not much at all. And wasn't his nose supposed to be smashed? He showed up at the police station looking really clean.
And even if you are in an altercation, like Navy said, at what point do you stop? At what point can you use deadly force? If a six foot tall athletic black man is beating my head against the pavement, I'm probably justified, but would you be? How tall are you? How fit? How much do you weigh? Could you have pushed him off? Or even said STOP? Or even said STOP OR I WILL SHOOT?
Add to this you've got biased reports, doctored evidence, and inflammatory pictures.
It all just stinks and I can't imagine any outcome will be good.
BravoSierra2012
New member
ABsC. Was reporting on the bond hearing and had a Tru-tv
Court correspondent in conversation about the photo. She stated that the defense looked to be a clear cut self defense stance. Saying that the picture proved his head was slammed into the concrete and the concrete was a deadly weapon. Of course the last word was from the ABsC reporter saying something to the effect of , yes, so deadly he didn't have to go to the hospital.... Really? Then we all should just slam our heads a few times into the concrete until we become unconscious because we can't die from it. Spin spin twist and lie. I wasn't there, I know nothing 1st hand that happened. I do know this race/ anti gun card is making me seriously consider Belize as a new address....
Court correspondent in conversation about the photo. She stated that the defense looked to be a clear cut self defense stance. Saying that the picture proved his head was slammed into the concrete and the concrete was a deadly weapon. Of course the last word was from the ABsC reporter saying something to the effect of , yes, so deadly he didn't have to go to the hospital.... Really? Then we all should just slam our heads a few times into the concrete until we become unconscious because we can't die from it. Spin spin twist and lie. I wasn't there, I know nothing 1st hand that happened. I do know this race/ anti gun card is making me seriously consider Belize as a new address....
Firefighterchen
OC for Tactical Advantage
I agree the whole thing stinks...it's been blown way out of proportion, and while I am beginning to not care anymore about this case, I do understand there are those much closer that do still care. I do care about justice though, everywhere, and with all the biased doctored media representation, I do not know if there will ever be justice in this case. As you put it, wanna be cop or neighbor hood watch vs innocent baby or drug using thief? What happened seconds before the physical altercation? Did Martin have justification to use deadly force against Zimmerman? Does Zimmerman have justification to use deadly force against martin? There was a call for help...who was yelling? At least now, after the courts decide what they feel is right, there will be foundation to one side of the story or not (not that it matters, since courts get ruling wrong all the time).
Now...
Medically speaking, the broken nose and head wounds you referenced. 46+ days is a long time, swelling will have gone down, and if properly placed (if needed) no disfigurement will be shown. As far as blood from the picture, traumatic head injuries don't usually cause death by hypovolemia (loss of blood, resulting in decreased volume leading to shock). The amount of blood in the picture is of no relevance when it comes to the internal damage done to the brain tissue. The police and paramedics cleaned up Zimmermans blood, and with high definition video, wounds are visible in the police video. And as fuhr said, he was detained and taken to the police station. I am not sure who you are referencing when you asked "who doesn't get arrested?"
localgirl
New member
I meant that he should have been arrested or at least questioned, which they apparently did. But if they felt secure enough to release him, the public defender or DA or whoever would have been "on his side" should have made a bigger fuss about it, as in "NO. He was already processed, there was no evidence, this is a clear-cut case of self-defense." It's like, not only is the media screwing the pooch, the authorities are letting the inmates run the asylum.
Every time I've ever had a head wound it's bled like a mother. But, like you said, if it's mostly internal damage--more blunt trauma--it might have been bruising more than lacerations.
I just don't know. I have a feeling he was probably justified, but I also wonder, why jump into the fray? I know you don't have a DUTY to retreat, but common sense might suggest it.
The point of justification is if Zimmerman asked stop said I'm done. That's when he should have stopped and if didn't then yes Zimmerman did fear for his life if in fact his head was being beat off the pavement! This is strictly hypothetical I have no idea how or what happen. I'm trying to show another point of view. 2 ppl can fight don't matter who started it at some point if 1 feels their life in danger and the other will not stop then yes the use of force necessary. Obviously the weapon wasn't pulled until after the fact or he wouldn't have had his head smashed. ( my thaughts and everyone will in fact have a different view and that my friends is why we are entitled to a jury trial ! )
Yes, the choosey way they pick the pictures of the kid, gets me, too.
ricardo900
New member
So far, from what I've read. IMO!
I dont' believe Zimmerman was out to kill someone that night.
I do believe Zimmerman "felt" that he saw someone who looked to him "suspicious". (Why he dialed 911)
I do believe Zimmerman followed him to keep an "eye" on him, just so he could point him out when police arrived.
I do believe Trayvon felt threatened when this stranger was following him and possibly confronted him.
I do believe they scuffled (who threw the 1st punch? who knows?)
I do believe all of this could have been avoided!
Now if Trayvon had a gun and shot Zimmerman, he would've been "Justified".
I think this case could weigh heavy on whether Justifiable Homicide is allowed if you "INITIATED" contact. At least "Paul Kersey" with his nickel-plated ".32 Colt Police Positive" wasn't following his victims, he just put himself out there like bait.
Or NYC favorite "Bernie Goetz" who shot four thugs trying to mug him, some in the back, but I am not going to get into semantics. How 'bout Texan's favorite "Joe Horn"? Killed two burglars (on tape) trying to burglarize a neighbors house. Are u guys seeing a pattern? So far, it's reported that "Trayvon" was returning from the store "MINDING HIS OWN BUSINESS" and then all hell breaks loose!
So no, as a gun owner & gun carrier, I am not identifying myself with Zimmerman because hopefully I wouldn't do something nutty and bring this shyt storm on myself, my family and my fellow gun community. So no, you are not going to read about me chasing and shooting at fleeing bank robbers or strolling through a crime-ridden hood at 3 a.m. hoping someone try and mug me so I can justifiably defend myself, because technically it's my right to walk anywhere and anytime I want to! And I am not going to buy a Yellow light for the roof of my truck, buy a CCW badge and start patrolling my township either!
I dont' believe Zimmerman was out to kill someone that night.
I do believe Zimmerman "felt" that he saw someone who looked to him "suspicious". (Why he dialed 911)
I do believe Zimmerman followed him to keep an "eye" on him, just so he could point him out when police arrived.
I do believe Trayvon felt threatened when this stranger was following him and possibly confronted him.
I do believe they scuffled (who threw the 1st punch? who knows?)
I do believe all of this could have been avoided!
Now if Trayvon had a gun and shot Zimmerman, he would've been "Justified".
I think this case could weigh heavy on whether Justifiable Homicide is allowed if you "INITIATED" contact. At least "Paul Kersey" with his nickel-plated ".32 Colt Police Positive" wasn't following his victims, he just put himself out there like bait.
Or NYC favorite "Bernie Goetz" who shot four thugs trying to mug him, some in the back, but I am not going to get into semantics. How 'bout Texan's favorite "Joe Horn"? Killed two burglars (on tape) trying to burglarize a neighbors house. Are u guys seeing a pattern? So far, it's reported that "Trayvon" was returning from the store "MINDING HIS OWN BUSINESS" and then all hell breaks loose!
So no, as a gun owner & gun carrier, I am not identifying myself with Zimmerman because hopefully I wouldn't do something nutty and bring this shyt storm on myself, my family and my fellow gun community. So no, you are not going to read about me chasing and shooting at fleeing bank robbers or strolling through a crime-ridden hood at 3 a.m. hoping someone try and mug me so I can justifiably defend myself, because technically it's my right to walk anywhere and anytime I want to! And I am not going to buy a Yellow light for the roof of my truck, buy a CCW badge and start patrolling my township either!
