Whats your opinion on the florida shooting?

[Mojo57]

I'm being obstinate because FACTS matter and CONJECTURE is nothing more than GOSSIP. So far you continue to confuse the two. You continue to erroniously claim facts not in evidence anywhere ........... FACTS dictate outcome because FACTS matter when dealing with the LAW.

IF you had read my other posts you wouldn't have to ask these other questions.

Last I checked this was a forum of opinions and not a court of law so your repeated comments about proof and such is getting very old. Give it up. People are expressing their OPINIONS based on the facts that have been provided to us JUST LIKE YOU are when you claim there is no proof to dispute a self defense claim. It's the very same thing except at The other end of the spectrum.

As an aside I will express another opinion, and that is that it's pretty frightening that your an "instructor" of something that actually may condone such an act based on facts that I and many others interpret as being well beyond self defense conduct. That being voluntarily placing himself in a position where he is confronting someone he admits doesn't look right. Again, wanna be super hero.

 

[X-Beast]

OK folks, lets take race out of the equation. For the sake of argument let's pretend that both people were white and level the playing field so to speak. I think the the shooter is a scew up who for some reason was delusional and wanted to play Dirty Harry. He was unable to discern or make the difference between a real and imagined threat. Sadly a young (unarmed) kid died as a result. The fact that the guy had a concealed carry license will reflect badly on all of us because the liberal media will make that an issue for futere gun control laws that they will support. This moron didn't do us any favors!

 

[B2Tall]

Sorry bud but there is no more evidence that was self defense than there is cold blooded murder. YOUR interpretation of the events are no more valid than the others.

You're right but the difference is that Zimmerman doesn't have to prove anything. It's up to the state to prove murder or some other crime. It's always been that way. You can't go around arresting people just to satisfy public opinion. The state and DA found that out the hard way with the Casey Anthony trial.

 

[kelcarry]

More opinions? Get a life

 

[B2Tall]

SO WAS MARTIN!

Martin had no duty to respond to Zimmerman, or to identify himself to this large Hispanic man who jumped out of his truck and started following him. I'm betting Martin was lost and scared. That's not a capital offense.

Neighborhood Watch guidelines from NCPC say don't carry weapons, and don't confront people.

Actually, Bob, if the neighborhood watch was sanctioned by the homeowners association (i.e. the owners of the private property that Martin was on) which I'm sure it was, Zimmerman was entirely in his rights to confront someone just as you would be within your rights to confront someone on your property. And Martin would have a duty to respond although he probably didn't know it. There's no law against confronting a person while they're on private property. How Zimmerman went about confronting this young man is another question altogether and at this point there doesn't seem to be any evidence to say one way or the other. Everything else is pure speculation.

Let's say I were to call the police and tell them that a stranger was on my property and he was acting suspiciously IMO. The police dept. tells me to stay inside and that they'll handle it. I choose to ignore their direction and I confront this person, get into a struggle, and shoot him out of fear for my life. Am I now a murderer because I put myself in a situation that I was told to avoid??? No, I'm not.....it makes me stupid, foolish, reckless, etc. but not a murderer. Ditto for Zimmerman.

A tragedy has occured but it would be another tragedy entirely if Zimmerman were made into a sacrificial lamb just to placate the anti-gun gods as I believe many here want to do. It's frustrating because this is a situation where we all want idiocy to be punished (happens all the time when people kill others with cars but since no law was broken it's call an "accident"), but as others have alluded to there's no law against foolishness in and of itself.

 

[thoricuncle]

To me, this case revolves around one question....

"Who was on the ground?"

If Zimmerman was on the ground and receiving blows, it is reasonable to assume that serious injury or death is imminent. It was mentioned that Zimmerman was bleeding from his nose and the back of the head. This would be consistent with someone having their head stomped.

This can be answered quickly. What was the angle of the bullet? If it was upward, that would indicate that Zimmerman was on the ground and Martin was standing. If it was downward or even, then it is hard to claim that you were in imminent fear of serious injury and death.

Either way, this is a dark day for the 2nd amendment movement. We can expect that the current administration, never one to let a good tragedy go to waste, will use this against us. National reciprocity is dead.

 

[BC1]

I have been an Instructor in Florida since 1987. I have been a firearms Instructor since 1976. And I will tell everyone this "You weren't there". There are only two people that know what happened that night and one is dead. IF and that is IF there was enough evidence of manslaughter or murder, he would be arrested and tried. Do I think Zimmerman was right NO. But stupidity is not against the law, sorry. To believe that it could not be a legitimate "Stand your ground" ruling is INSANE. Zimmerman was where he belonged. That's a FACT. Does a 911 Operators orders carry any weight "NONE". What I have read and I covered this on my RADIO SHOW "THE BULLSEYE" on Sunday night. So far all the information that is available, ZIMMERMAN is a tool and guilty of being an idiot. This is being tried in the press by folks who are reading the news paper and making a decision. For those that are doing that, may you never have to try your own case in the press. And to have AL Sharpton and that crowd come down here and try to make this a racial issue is also foolish. Zimmerman has African American relatives and is Hispanic. Everytime Sharpton gets a bite into something he tries to incite the Black community. And he was wrong before. This is a TRAGEDY beyond all expectation. I feel for both families. But do not be so quick to judge.

I understand there were some witnesses that called 911. They were on the phone with dispatch when the gunshots were heard. I wonder what they saw.

BTW, how's Palm Beach doin. I love it there. My wife's from West Palm. They have a family fishing charter service out of Jupiter Inlet. Also a wildlife art gallery. Some of the most beautiful fishing and bird hunting artwork you'll ever find --> http://billelliottsportingart.com/originals.html

 

[The_Outlaw]

Self defense claims are pretty weak when you purposely put yourself into harms way. In this case not only did he do that, but having fear of someones potential is not justification for pulling a gun and then the trigger. This guy's totally swirling down the toilet and deserves some legal ramifications for his stupidity.

Some people are just too damn stupid to be walking freely among the rest of us.
If what they are claiming about this case is true, then I would say that Zimmerman should probably be convicted.
But we have not heard all of the facts in this case.

 

[Dale64]

Last I checked this was a forum of opinions and not a court of law so your repeated comments about proof and such is getting very old. Give it up. People are expressing their OPINIONS based on the facts that have been provided to us JUST LIKE YOU are when you claim there is no proof to dispute a self defense claim. It's the very same thing except at The other end of the spectrum.

As an aside I will express another opinion, and that is that it's pretty frightening that your an "instructor" of something that actually may condone such an act based on facts that I and many others interpret as being well beyond self defense conduct. That being voluntarily placing himself in a position where he is confronting someone he admits doesn't look right. Again, wanna be super hero.

+1 This IS a forum of opinions, not a court of law.

 

[cmhbob]

CMHBOB you are assuming that Zimmerman confronted the young man. I have not seen that anywhere. I missed that somehow. And I also didn't read where the young man didn't attack Zimmerman. I make no assumptions on this. Until all the facts are out, as in forensics and testimony from the people that called 911. You or no other person knows what happened.

And please don't quote neighborhood watch guidelines. They are not the LAW. And being STUPID is not against the LAW.

From several published reports, Zimmerman got out of his truck and followed Martin. That was wrong.

And why can't I quote neighborhood watch guidelines? Zimmerman was apparently acting under the auspices of NCPC Neighborhood Watch, so he should have been following them, yes? No, they're not the law. It's just the rules of the organization whose name they were using. That's like saying "Don't quote the rules of baseball. We're going to run the bases clockwise here."

But the thing that everyone keeps ignoring is that Stand Your Ground applied to Martin just as much as it did to Zimmerman. Martin was returning to the home of a family member, so he had every right to be where he was.

 

[B2Tall]

But the thing that everyone keeps ignoring is that Stand Your Ground applied to Martin just as much as it did to Zimmerman. Martin was returning to the home of a family member, so he had every right to be where he was.

Agree 100%, but a member of an authorized neighborhood watch has every right to question a stranger while that stranger is on private property (i.e. a gated community). What neither Zimmerman or Martin had a right to do was initiate a physical confrontation. One of them did. The question is "who??".

I read where Zimmerman outweighed Martin by more than 100lbs. If Zimmerman is reasonably healthy then he definitely should be brought up on charges, manslaughter at the very least. In that case I think it's highly unlikely that a firearm was necessary. But if Zimmerman was some obese guy who has trouble walking, a heart condition, etc. (we've all seen them) then it may very well have been justified. The fact is that we don't know. My gut tells me to throw the book at him but "gut feeling" is no basis for a judicial system.

And why can't I quote neighborhood watch guidelines?

You can but remember - they're guidelines, not law.

 

[SGB]

Last I checked this was a forum of opinions and not a court of law so your repeated comments about proof and such is getting very old. Give it up. People are expressing their OPINIONS based on the facts that have been provided to us JUST LIKE YOU are when you claim there is no proof to dispute a self defense claim. It's the very same thing except at The other end of the spectrum.

As an aside I will express another opinion, and that is that it's pretty frightening that your an "instructor" of something that actually may condone such an act based on facts that I and many others interpret as being well beyond self defense conduct. That being voluntarily placing himself in a position where he is confronting someone he admits doesn't look right. Again, wanna be super hero.

:stop: Now your just blowing wind out the old sphincter ani externus

, conjecture isn't fact my friend:no:. Opinion based on conjecture is nothing more than Link Removed. Now it's perfectly fine if you prefer to discuss gossip however I prefer facts. And what's scary to me is that someone who prefers conjecture and gossip to fact carries a firearm but hey that's your RIGHT and I'm happy to stand up for your rights as well.:yes4:

Link Removed

 

[alamoadam]

Does anyone know if the Skittles Martin was found carrying FMJ skittles or hollow-point?

Seems everyone is in agreement that Zimmerman is an idiot.

I wonder if he took any firearms training or just some basic fundamental CHL class where some arrogant instructor explained more about the "legal" rights and very little if anything about the "moral" rights in taking someone's life! As in my CHL class experiences.

But only in "self defense" of course.

It's such a travesty when someone uses "self defense" as a scape goat!
But then again... It is your word against the "dead mans" after all!

I mean was this guy neighborhood watch or neighborhood vigilante? What exactly qualifies a person to do so anyway?
1) cell phone... Check!
2) walking shoes... Check!
3) a fearless mindset because I'm packing a 9mm and not afraid to use it at any cost, especially when it comes to confronting an unknown person in or around the neighborhood and very familiar with the phrase "self defense.. Wink...wink... CHECK!

Well... Let's see what our "fabulous" justice system says...

Good luck Z!

 

[Dale64]

"It's easier to avoid conflict than it is to survive it" - SGB

That is exactly what Martin was trying to do and Zimmerman was doing the exact opposite.
That is not conjecture nor gossip, its a fact that Martin ran away from Zimmerman and its a fact that Zimmerman ran after him to confront him.
Stand your ground does not apply to Zimmerman, it applies to Martin only.
If I were being confronted/chased by anyone other than an LEO I would most likely try to defend myself.
The poor kid was lost and most likely had no idea why this guy was chasing him, he did the right thing by running away from him, Zimmerman is NOT a cop!!!

 

[SGB]

"It's easier to avoid conflict than it is to survive it" - SGB

That is exactly what Martin was trying to do and Zimmerman was doing the exact opposite.
That is not conjecture nor gossip, its a fact that Martin ran away from Zimmerman and its a fact that Zimmerman ran after him to confront him.
Stand your ground does not apply to Zimmerman, it applies to Martin only.
If I were being confronted/chased by anyone other than an LEO I would most likely try to defend myself.
The poor kid was lost and most likely had no idea why this guy was chasing him, he did the right thing by running away from him, Zimmerman is NOT a cop!!!

This entire incident proves my sigline, however my sigline neither proves or disproves the right or wrong of the parties involved.

You're correct in that had Zimmerman not called in a suspicious person and continued to follow and update the dispatcher as to his location that this incident would most likely not have happened. You're incorrect in that Zimmerman had just as much right to be there as did Martin as to the rest the fault lies to who ever initiated the assault. A fact none of us know.

 

[CapGun]

I am definitely not in support of Zimmerman but since it was reported that he called 911 50 times in the last year;did any of those calls end up with the police arresting anyone?
This whole thing stinks. Now the "Castle Doctrine" especially the "Stand Your Ground" portion is under severe attack.
I am not equating the two in my next sentence, so don't misunderstand!
The police make mistakes and shoot someone unnecessarily and are sometimes found guilty of ....you pick the charge..... and nobody calls for the elimination of the police or call for taking away guns from the police.
I am not saying Zimmerman made a mistake or equating him with a LEO, thought he may have done that is his own mind.
I am just saying one idiot, Zimmerman and gun owners and good laws get attacked and blamed. Not bashing the police but I think just by the nature of their job such questionable shoots do occur without calling for an end to police depts. or taking guns from the entire force. Just saying.

 

[tuts40]

For me, aside from the kid being shot to death while NOT posing an immediate threat to the shooter, is the bad publicity gun owners/gun rights are/is getting.

 

[cmhbob]

New revelation: Martin was on the phone with his girlfriend when everything started. Wonder how Sanford PD missed this?

Lawyer: Girl on phone with Trayvon Martin cuts shooter's self-defense claim - CNN.com

 

[hazard123]

In my humble opinion, "This guy was a nija mall cop wanna be, bad ass."

It's my opinion, my take on the news I recieved, hang his ass out to dry. We do not need people like this guarding our homes.

 

[SGB]

New revelation: Martin was on the phone with his girlfriend when everything started. Wonder how Sanford PD missed this?

Lawyer: Girl on phone with Trayvon Martin cuts shooter's self-defense claim - CNN.com

Unless there is more to this conversation or this version is incorrect I can't see how it changes anything as it still doesn't prove who assaulted who.

The question it raises is why didn't Watkins call the Police about being followed?

Trayvon Martin case: 16-year-old girl recalls last phone conversation minutes before Martin was shot dead: report* - NY Daily News

The pair's phone logs, obtained by ABC News, show they spoke just five minutes before police responded to reports of a shooting at the gated community in Sanford, Fla.

Recounting her conversation with Martin, the teen girl said, "He said this man was watching him, so he put his hoodie on. He said he lost the man."

"I asked Trayvon to run, and he said he was going to walk fast. I told him to run but he said he was not going to run," she said.

After a few minutes, the girl said, Martin thought he was safe. But eventually the man appeared again.

"Trayvon said, 'What are you following me for?'" the girl said. "And the man said, 'What are you doing here?' Next thing I hear is somebody pushing, and somebody pushed Trayvon because the [phone’s\] headset just fell."

The line went dead, the girl said.

"I called him again and he didn't answer the phone," she said.