Whats your opinion on the florida shooting?

[SGB]

OK, educate me, Mr. Instructor. Tell me when a private citizen is allowed to detain another private citizen who has a right to be where he is, even though you're not an attorney. Tell me when I have to stop and tell another private citizen why I'm walking down a path in an apartment complex.

And can someone please clarify Zimmerman's status with regard to a neighborhood watch? I keep hearing "self-appointed," and I've not seen statements from any other member of the neighborhood watch. Nothing confirming or denying his status. Nothing from any officers or boardmembers in the watch group. Was this a one-man neighborhood watch? Is that legal in Florida?

I'm still waiting for you to provide any evidence that Zimmerman detained anyone, you can't because it's conjecture (con·jec·ture noun {1**. the formation or expression of an opinion or theory without sufficient evidence for proof. {2**. an opinion or theory so formed or expressed; guess; speculation. {3**. Obsolete . the interpretation of signs or omens.)

 

[SGB]

Information below is from the department of government in Florida responsible for issuing carry permits. I can't seem to find a reference that justifies what Zimmerman did. I can find references that indicate Zimmerman should be considered a criminal and punished for what he did. I'm aware there is a "stand your ground" statute in Florida, however I do not believe Zimmerman can be the aggressor (he initiated the events by his actions) and use that as a defense to shooting someone even if that person is kicking his butt despite being 11 years younger and of significantly lighter body weight.

I can easily find references that state you cannot do what Zimmerman did without being considered a criminal subject to prosecution under Florida law. In addition, I can easily find a reference that states Zimmerman signed an oath swearing he understood and would follow these laws in order to be issued a permit.

So you're saying that you have found laws that the Sanford Police could not? Are you insinuating corruption in the Sanford PD investigation?

Please provide the applicable laws under which you would prosecute Zimmerman and the evidence supporting your claim.

 

[SGB]

Shooter inserted himself into a dangerous situation after being advised by proper authority to stand down and not interfere. Race is not even a factor. what incurred during the struggle is not a factor. Disregarding instructions from a law enforcement agency (dispatchers tell cops where to go, what makes anybody thing they can't advise civilians?) makes the case. A slam dunk for manslaughter.

Zimmerman was never "instructed to stand down" as you've alleged. The 911 tapes have been posted, please feel free to hear them for yourself rather than listening to the propaganda. Further, civilian "dispatchers" have no authority to tell anyone to do anything.

 

[SGB]

John Gotti killed people. Everybody knew it, but no one could prove it. Doesn't mean it didn't happen. I hear what you are saying. No evidence to prove Zimmerman committed murder.

You are correct I'm not saying Zimmerman is or isn't guilty, I'm saying that so far there is no proof (evidence) to dispute his claim of self defense. The entire affair
is extremely unfortunate.

 

[cmhbob]

I'm still waiting for you to provide any evidence that Zimmerman detained anyone, you can't because it's conjecture (con·jec·ture noun {1**. the formation or expression of an opinion or theory without sufficient evidence for proof. {2**. an opinion or theory so formed or expressed; guess; speculation. {3**. Obsolete . the interpretation of signs or omens.)

Good freaking grief! Why are you being so obstinate (ob·sti·nate adjective 2 - characterized by inflexible persistence or an unyielding attitude) about this?

How about "accosted?" (ac·cost  verb 1. to confront boldly: 2. to approach, especially with a greeting, question, or remark) Confronted? (con·front verb 3. to stand or come in front of; stand or meet facing) Pick your favorite word here.

But come on now: let's hear your expert opinion as an instructor. I'm not the only one you've tried to call out on this, so quit asking questions and give your thoughts on the subject.

*Do you think Zimmerman is in the right?

*How does FL's Stand Your Ground law apply to Zimmerman? To Martin?

 

[SGB]

Good freaking grief! Why are you being so obstinate (ob·sti·nate adjective 2 - characterized by inflexible persistence or an unyielding attitude) about this?

How about "accosted?" (ac·cost  verb 1. to confront boldly: 2. to approach, especially with a greeting, question, or remark) Confronted? (con·front verb 3. to stand or come in front of; stand or meet facing) Pick your favorite word here.

But come on now: let's hear your expert opinion as an instructor. I'm not the only one you've tried to call out on this, so quit asking questions and give your thoughts on the subject.

*Do you think Zimmerman is in the right?

*How does FL's Stand Your Ground law apply to Zimmerman? To Martin?

I'm being obstinate because FACTS matter and CONJECTURE is nothing more than GOSSIP. So far you continue to confuse the two. You continue to erroniously claim facts not in evidence anywhere ........... FACTS dictate outcome because FACTS matter when dealing with the LAW.

IF you had read my other posts you wouldn't have to ask these other questions.

 

[cmhbob]

IF you had read my other posts you wouldn't have to ask these other questions.

I've read your other posts in this thread, and they don't address the questions I asked. I'm not searching through 620+ posts.

Based on your opinion as a Florida CCW instructor, do you think Zimmerman is in the right?

Based on your opinion as a Florida CCW instructor, how does FL's Stand Your Ground law apply to Zimmerman? Zimmerman got out of his car and approached Martin.

Based on your opinion as a Florida CCW instructor, how does FL's Stand Your Ground law apply to Martin? Martin had a right to be where he was. Do you think Zimmerman had a right to chase, stop, confront, or accost Martin?

 

[Deserteagle]

Just heard this story on the news. Outrageous

Trayvon Martin Family Seeks FBI Investigation of Killing - ABC News

 

[B2Tall]

I was away for a few days and I haven't waded through 5 pages of posts so forgive me if I'm a little behind.

Zimmerman sounds like a sheepdog gone wild but I don't see anything so far that says he broke any laws. Being foolish and disobeying "orders" doesn't automatically preclude a self defense situation. Here's what I see:

1. Gated communities are private property. Private property owners or their representatives (of which Zimmerman was one) are perfectly within their rights to confront/question any stranger as to the reason for them being on the property.

2. The 911 call supports Zimmerman IMO. The only people who're saying that the person crying for help is Tayvon Martin is his family. What do you expect them to say?? Saying anything else would be tantamount to admitting that their son was the aggressor. The 911 call makes me think "what's more likely" - that the person heard in the background is Martin and that Zimmerman just stood there for a while before executing him?? Or that the person heard is Zimmerman (who claims that Martin was on top of him and had punched him) and that he pulled the trigger out of fear?? I'll go with the latter without hesitation. I think Martin attacking Zimmerman out of anger and/or frustration is a far more likely scenario than Zimmerman morphing into a stone-cold executioner and capped a non-threat who was begging for his life.


Remember, the state has to prove that Zimmerman was the aggressor, and a member of a neighborhood watch getting out of their car to investigate something suspicious is not an act of aggression. Unless some evidence appears to show that Zimmerman instigated the physical confrontation, I just don't see the state having a case.

Personally I think that Zimmerman is an idiot and his overzealousness is the ultimate reason that a kid is dead, but based on what I read I can't see any crime being committed. I also don't think he was justified unless the kid had a weapon or was trying to choke him to death. A (presumably) healthy 28 yr old man who gets a knuckle sandwhich or two from a teenager does not constitute justification for a shooting IMO. But then again we just don't know all the details and probably never will.

 

[vkent718]

zimmerman

I'm a Florida Deputy in a neighboring county. Zimmerman is guilty of 1st degree manslaughter at the minimum. I personally feel like this was an outright homicide!. I feel for Trayvons family

 

[BC1]

Just heard this on Fox News; 7:30PM EST

Zimmerman was the self-appointed "Chief of the neighborhood watch.' He has called police 46 times in the past 18 months to report suspicious people. A large majority of those investigated turned out to be teen black males. His father denies he's a racist. The dead kid was found to have skittles and iced-tea in his possession. He had not been involved in any illegtgal activity. When police arrived Zimmerman had a bloody nose.

In the 911 call, Dispatcher asked if he was following the suspect. He affirmed. The 911 call goes exactly like this...

ZIMMERMAN: "This guy looks like he's up to no good, or he's on drugs or something."
DISPATCH: Are you following him?
ZIMMERMAN: Yeah.
DISPATCH: Okay, we don't need you to do that.

Witnesses say he continued to follow the boy. Justice Dept. is now monitoring the case.


Here's my two cents. This cop-wannabe, pain in the ass to the police department, follows, annoys and harasses people just going about their business. He continued to follow him after being advised by dispatch not to do that. He decided, despite having with no experience or training in the observation of suspects, that he knew the kid was on drugs or up to no good. He confronted the kid, the altercation got a little physical and he got a well deserved crack in the face. He shot the kid over that and nothing more. This ain't what "castle doctrine" or "stand-your-ground" laws are about. Indict him.

 

[NotTwoShure]

Bill and Sara Brady are having a grand old time with this one. I have only viewed the info on a Fox News channel and Shepard Smith is as P.Off as I am so far. However, this is going to be a knee jerk for the Leftist Media. As with the police officer that stops us for stopping at the stop sign and states good going, the firearms that saved lives and protected their owners will not be broadcast. Only one miss-deed to receive international prominence. The D.O.J. will most likely become involved in the “Hate Crime”. Either way we all are going to lose. “Fast and Furious” was the direct result of the Feds giving guns to know drugs dealers. If we take this logic to the extreme, we will see that no one should have a firearm. Not just this instant but in the hands of our trained killers, the soldier on his fourth deployment had a terrible result. Off subject but a note. To sum it all, It Sucks big time.

 

[SGB]

I'm not searching through 620+ posts.

And I'm not playing your strawman game Mr. lazy.

 

[walt629]

Ah, it's a "sheep dog" thing...sometimes I wonder if most who cling to that term have even read Grossman's book and what he said about it.

Don't get your cockles up. I didn't say it was a "sheep dog" thing. I said everyone has to make a decision. And yes, some of have read the LT.Col's writings. On that note I leave you with this:

This business of being a sheep or a sheepdog is not a yes-no dichotomy. It is not an all-or-nothing, either-or choice. It is a matter of degrees, a continuum. On one end is an abject, head-in-the-grass sheep and on the other end is the ultimate warrior. Few people exist completely on one end or the other. Most of us live somewhere in between. Since 9-11 almost everyone in America took a step up that continuum, away from denial. The sheep took a few steps toward accepting and appreciating their warriors, and the warriors started taking their job more seriously. The degree to which you move up that continuum, away from sheephood and denial, is the degree to which you and your loved ones will survive, physically and psychologically at your moment of truth.

From : Link Removed

You might also try this: http://www.facebook.com/LtColDaveGrossman?sk=wall

 

[B2Tall]

Just heard this on Fox News; 7:30PM EST

Zimmerman was the self-appointed "Chief of the neighborhood watch.' He has called police 46 times in the past 18 months to report suspicious people. A large majority of those investigated turned out to be teen black males. His father denies he's a racist. The dead kid was found to have skittles and iced-tea in his possession. He had not been involved in any illegtgal activity. When police arrived Zimmerman had a bloody nose.

In the 911 call, Dispatcher asked if he was following the suspect. He affirmed. The 911 call goes exactly like this...

ZIMMERMAN: "This guy looks like he's up to no good, or he's on drugs or something."
DISPATCH: Are you following him?
ZIMMERMAN: Yeah.
DISPATCH: Okay, we don't need you to do that.

Witnesses say he continued to follow the boy. Justice Dept. is now monitoring the case.


Here's my two cents. This cop-wannabe, pain in the ass to the police department, follows, annoys and harasses people just going about their business. He continued to follow him after being advised by dispatch not to do that. He decided, despite having with no experience or training in the observation of suspects, that he knew the kid was on drugs or up to no good. He confronted the kid, the altercation got a little physical and he got a well deserved crack in the face. He shot the kid over that and nothing more. This ain't what "castle doctrine" or "stand-your-ground" laws are about. Indict him.

Sounds entirely plausible and that's what my gut tells me what happened, but without evidence to support it there's no case. A history of "overzealous following" does not equate to murder.

 

[Bttbbob]

I have been an Instructor in Florida since 1987. I have been a firearms Instructor since 1976. And I will tell everyone this "You weren't there". There are only two people that know what happened that night and one is dead. IF and that is IF there was enough evidence of manslaughter or murder, he would be arrested and tried. Do I think Zimmerman was right NO. But stupidity is not against the law, sorry. To believe that it could not be a legitimate "Stand your ground" ruling is INSANE. Zimmerman was where he belonged. That's a FACT. Does a 911 Operators orders carry any weight "NONE". What I have read and I covered this on my RADIO SHOW "THE BULLSEYE" on Sunday night. So far all the information that is available, ZIMMERMAN is a tool and guilty of being an idiot. This is being tried in the press by folks who are reading the news paper and making a decision. For those that are doing that, may you never have to try your own case in the press. And to have AL Sharpton and that crowd come down here and try to make this a racial issue is also foolish. Zimmerman has African American relatives and is Hispanic. Everytime Sharpton gets a bite into something he tries to incite the Black community. And he was wrong before. This is a TRAGEDY beyond all expectation. I feel for both families. But do not be so quick to judge.

 

[cmhbob]

Zimmerman was where he belonged.

SO WAS MARTIN!

Martin had no duty to respond to Zimmerman, or to identify himself to this large Hispanic man who jumped out of his truck and started following him. I'm betting Martin was lost and scared. That's not a capital offense.

Neighborhood Watch guidelines from NCPC say don't carry weapons, and don't confront people.

 

[Bttbbob]

SO WAS MARTIN!

Martin had no duty to respond to Zimmerman, or to identify himself to this large Hispanic man who jumped out of his truck and started following him. I'm betting Martin was lost and scared. That's not a capital offense.

Neighborhood Watch guidelines from NCPC say don't carry weapons, and don't confront people.
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CMHBOB you are assuming that Zimmerman confronted the young man. I have not seen that anywhere. I missed that somehow. And I also didn't read where the young man didn't attack Zimmerman. I make no assumptions on this. Until all the facts are out, as in forensics and testimony from the people that called 911. You or no other person knows what happened.

And please don't quote neighborhood watch guidelines. They are not the LAW. And being STUPID is not against the LAW.

Anyone that is hanging this guy yet is jumping to conclusions.
If he is found guilty of murdering this kid, I would throw the switch.
But I would say that is a little premature isn't it?

 

[Mojo57]

Y'all know the shooter is of Hispanic heritage and all this other Hyperbole is just race baiting. There is NO EVIDENCE that the shooting was anything but self defense.


BOUNTY HUNTER - Paragraphs, use them.

Sorry bud but there is no more evidence that was self defense than there is cold blooded murder. YOUR interpretation of the events are no more valid than the others.

 

[Bttbbob]

Feds have now opened an investigation as expected.

U.S. News - Justice Department, FBI to probe shooting death of Florida teen Trayvon Martin