"Why would you kill her? ... It was a woman with a knife."

[ezkl2230]

That's what the boyfriend is saying. He and the girlfriend were having a domestic dispute, glass was broken and he called Ann Arbor Police to "... escort her out." Police responded, announced themselves, and she approached them with a fillet knife in her hand. She ignored orders to drop the knife and evidently continued to approach them, at which point they opened fire. Now the boyfriend is pulling the usual, "she wasn't going to kill anyone," crap:

"Why would you kill her? He shot her in the head and in the chest," Stephens said. "It was a woman with a knife. It doesn't make any sense."...Where were the Tasers at? She wasn't going to kill anybody with a knife," Stephens said. "That's unnecessary."

Boyfriend of woman shot by Ann Arbor police: 'Why would you kill her?' | MLive.com

 

[sdprof]

She wasn't going to kill anybody with a knife

yeah, tell that to all the people that have been killed with knives.

 

[ezkl2230]

What is truly amazing is the number of people who truly believe that a person with a knife doesn't represent a lethal threat and that disarming them is a simple task, including one "martial artist" who knows for a fact that HE could have disarmed her, so there is no excuse for the police not to have disarmed her, and another armchair expert who accuses police of "executing her without due process."

https://www.facebook.com/mlive/post...t_id=10152846696098896&ref=notif&notif_t=like

 

[BluesStringer]

I have no problem with a cop (or cops) shooting someone threatening them with a knife, but I do have a problem with the fact that if the boyfriend who called the cops had shot her instead of calling, it would've been a run-of-the-mill domestic violence case and he would've spent the rest of his life in prison, if not gotten the death penalty in some jurisdictions.

I certainly don't want anyone to have to kill anyone else, but if it's justifiable for a cop (or cops) to shoot the knife-wielding woman for the same threat the boyfriend called them out to address, then the boyfriend (or any other domestic "arrangement") should get the benefit of the doubt that they were justified instead of automatically being assumed to be a wife-killer or beater or whatever.

When cops are treated better than the citizens they serve, that's a sure sign of a police state in action.

Blues

 

[NavyLCDR]

[sarcasm] Where is the screaming for background checks and registration of knives? Form 4473K and FKL (Federal Knives License)? Wouldn't that keep domestic violence from happening with knives? [/sarcasm]

 

[S&W645]

[sarcasm] Where is the screaming for background checks and registration of knives? Form 4473K and FKL (Federal Knives License)? Wouldn't that keep domestic violence from happening with knives? [/sarcasm]

But as an aside, Florida's license isn't just for guns.

 

[ezkl2230]

[sarcasm] Where is the screaming for background checks and registration of knives? Form 4473K and FKL (Federal Knives License)? Wouldn't that keep domestic violence from happening with knives? [/sarcasm]

From an interview with Al Sharpton, excerpted from a rant about the "need" for gun control, his response to a caller:

Published on Dec 31, 2012REV AL SHARPTON (28 Dec 2012): In any civilized society you do not see massacres continue to happen, from Tucson to Aurora to Columbine to Virginia Tech to where we are now in Newtown to Chicago and you keep the same laws when clearly they're not working.

ROSCOE IN MARYLAND: What happens when the criminal goes to knives Al?

REV AL SHARPTON: Then you deal with knives.

ROSCOE IN MARYLAND: Oh I see.



REV AL SHARPTON: The same thing as if you have a head cold and the same thing you do if you have a head cold and the cold is gone and you have a headache. Then you take headache medicine. The job of society is to deal with whatever problem confronts it.

And by "deal[ing] with whatever problem confronts it," Sharpton means, you ban it. That is the only thing he knows how to do. You don't empower and enable people to protect themselves, because that is the job of the government. And Sharpton of all people should know how badly the government fails on THAT point. The civil rights movement was a movement of the PEOPLE long before the government finally made it the law. The government originally CODIFIED slavery as part of the Great Compromise long before it finally set out to eliminate it.

So the call for knife control is already on the table.

 

[ezkl2230]

Here is a sampling of the responses generated by this article:

"Wow are any of you listening to yourselves....let's say that was your daughter sister, aunt, MOM...etc place your self in his shoes. Yes she posed a threat to the officer but there were other measures the officer could've taken besides lethal force. I wasn't there to witness how it all went down but neither was anyone else commenting on this post. That being said, Police officers are trained for close quarter combat and trained to use a firearms for wounding and lethal force. A person with a knife CAN be disarmed if your trained properly....I speak of this because I have practiced martial arts for years and can disarm a person with non lethal force and Law enforcement teaches this as well. To say this is justified is insane."

"When did lethal force become the norm? I remember not that long ago police were trained to shoot in the leg to immobilize a threat. Mental illness is something that can be treated in the right circumstances. Such a shame this is happening all over. Twice the police came to my house over issues with my disabled mother and both times the officers were very calm and truly kind and concerned for my mother. They didn't shoot her even though she was screaming and erratic. They calmly convinced her to come with them to seek professional help."

"Yeah, her killing armed cops with a tiny ass knife training trumps the cops shoot to kill with a gun training. I see where you are coming from. WOW! What is wrong with America!?"

"it seem like a leg shot would have been enough? Even a warning shot might have scared the stupid out of the lady making her give up. Head shot seems a bit much"

"Let's be honest.......
In Nevada numerous armed whites actually pointed firearms at federal agents no one was shot a black woman with a knife gets shot in the head if anyone doesn't think that there are different rules for different players then they are not paying attention to American society"

"They have vests and training. They could BACK OFF AND DEFUSE THE SITUATION."

"I'm surprised at the number of people who support the execution of a citizen without due process."

 

[CharlesMorrison]

From an interview with Al Sharpton, excerpted from a rant about the "need" for gun control, his response to a caller:



And by "deal[ing] with whatever problem confronts it," Sharpton means, you ban it. That is the only thing he knows how to do. You don't empower and enable people to protect themselves, because that is the job of the government. And Sharpton of all people should know how badly the government fails on THAT point. The civil rights movement was a movement of the PEOPLE long before the government finally made it the law. The government originally CODIFIED slavery as part of the Great Compromise long before it finally set out to eliminate it.

So the call for knife control is already on the table.

Link Removed

 

[mappow]

They be the Klan with a tan.

 

[festus]

armed with a deadly weapon and inside the 21ft circle of safety.....one command to drop and then it is time to act.

 

[Deanimator]

yeah, tell that to all the people that have been killed with knives.

Including my godsister in Apartheid Chicago.

 

[Deanimator]

They sound like a couple of dummies who deserved each other.

 

[mappow]

Sooo a person, no gender, race, age (did I forget anybody) listed, comes at you with a fillet knife. What you gonna do, call 911? Not a problem for me. I train for this kind of sheet. I think or at least hope most on this site does the same.

 

[FNWylde]

I have no problem with a cop (or cops) shooting someone threatening them with a knife, but I do have a problem with the fact that if the boyfriend who called the cops had shot her instead of calling, it would've been a run-of-the-mill domestic violence case and he would've spent the rest of his life in prison, if not gotten the death penalty in some jurisdictions.

I certainly don't want anyone to have to kill anyone else, but if it's justifiable for a cop (or cops) to shoot the knife-wielding woman for the same threat the boyfriend called them out to address, then the boyfriend (or any other domestic "arrangement") should get the benefit of the doubt that they were justified instead of automatically being assumed to be a wife-killer or beater or whatever.

When cops are treated better than the citizens they serve, that's a sure sign of a police state in action.

Blues

Blues,
You are one of the few here who by a great margin think through your responses and have a great comprehension of right and wrong and you have gained my utmost respect, but I'm going to challenge you on this one...I find it reprehensible that a woman is dead 'if' indeed she did have mental problems in a situation like this. I have said before that it is not the police's responsibility or mandate to end every and all situations immediately, especially by advancing on a sick person and then ultimately killing that person. There can and should be a greater expectation for the police to back up, assess, and do every God Damn thing possible before shooting to 'stop the threat'. Maybe I'd make a shitty cop, but by God I'd have the decency and discipline to give a person some cooling down time....

Now, I wasn't there, none of us were and I won't play armchair quarterback to the cops...but, if the guy simply wanted her escorted out and there were still 5 people in the house and none of them left to avoid being harmed...then there is a strong possibility that the threat wasn't as great as the cops perceived.
FN

 

[BluesStringer]

Blues,
You are one of the few here who by a great margin think through your responses and have a great comprehension of right and wrong and you have gained my utmost respect, but I'm going to challenge you on this one...I find it reprehensible that a woman is dead 'if' indeed she did have mental problems in a situation like this. I have said before that it is not the police's responsibility or mandate to end every and all situations immediately, especially by advancing on a sick person and then ultimately killing that person. There can and should be a greater expectation for the police to back up, assess, and do every God Damn thing possible before shooting to 'stop the threat'. Maybe I'd make a shitty cop, but by God I'd have the decency and discipline to give a person some cooling down time....

Now, I wasn't there, none of us were and I won't play armchair quarterback to the cops...but, if the guy simply wanted her escorted out and there were still 5 people in the house and none of them left to avoid being harmed...then there is a strong possibility that the threat wasn't as great as the cops perceived.
FN

Hey FN, thanks for the too-kind opening.

Really no need to challenge me because I agree wholeheartedly with what you say. I have questions about whether or not this specific case fits within the scenario I very briefly alluded to when I said, "I have no problem with a cop (or cops) shooting someone threatening them with a knife..." I can't tell from the OP article if an actual threat with the knife existed. The point I was trying to draw attention to is that the boyfriend (or any other domestic "arrangement") would not get the benefit of the doubt if he shot the woman for the exact same "walking towards" the cops with a knife in her hand. He would've been arrested on the spot, almost assuredly charged, tried and convicted, while the cops are assumed to be justified in killing her, both by TPTB and by members on this forum it seems.

In any case the whole "I have no problem with" thing is predicated upon if they were being threatened with the knife.

I started a reply to ezkl2230's post above where he quoted some of the comments on the article, but for some reason my browser keeps crashing and I never got back to it after it did, but I was going to say about at least one of the comments that they had a valid point. This one:

"They have vests and training. They could BACK OFF AND DEFUSE THE SITUATION."

The vests and training is irrelevant as far as I'm concerned, but like you said, they certainly could've backed away, or at least held their fire, as long as she wasn't very close and actually holding the knife in a threatening posture. People use scenarios like this and invoke the 21-foot-rule as the criteria for determining when to shoot, but that doesn't apply in the case where guns are already drawn, aimed, fingers on the triggers and the only "threat" is that the knife wasn't dropped in a split second after being ordered to drop it. 21' is the distance/time ratio that Tueller contemplates it takes to draw and get an accurate shot or two off before a knife-wielding assailant can stab or cut you. It doesn't count if guns are already drawn and ready to fire. It seems to me also that there's at least the possibility that pulling of any triggers could've been avoided, but like you also say, we weren't there and I don't know how close she was or if she actually presented the knife in any threatening posture. Unfortunately, whether she was or wasn't, we'll never know for sure. Unlike the rest of us, cops don't have to wait for a jury to give them the benefit of the doubt. They get it on the spot, and that was really the only point I was trying to make.

Blues

 

[longslide10]

What's that old adage.......Oh yeah, never bring a knife to a gun fight.

 

[longslide10]

[sarcasm] Where is the screaming for background checks and registration of knives? Form 4473K and FKL (Federal Knives License)? Wouldn't that keep domestic violence from happening with knives? [/sarcasm]

Shhhh.....watch what you say. The UK has banned the sale of plastic picnic knives to minors so if given the opportunity the imbeciles in our govt may get the idea to do the very thing you speak of.

 

[alternety]

A simple common sense pre-picnic background check would suffice to solve this heinous problem. Of course, if the knives were not kept on the person of the owner, or in a properly secured on-site safe, the entire party and anyone walking past will need to go to a proper holder of a HMPUL (HM Plastic Utensil License) and pay the transfer fees.

Joking aside, the idiots in WA have just voted in a referendum that essentially does that for firearms. If you take you wife shooting, and hand anyone your gun to use, it is a crime. According to the law, after she shoots (without the background check required for each "transfer") and hands it back; crime. Do this twice and it is a felony.

Superb media manipulation by the billionaires club. Outstanding commercials, superb lying and mis-direction. No noticeable effort by the NRA. And no one actually reads the text of the referendums. They vote by commercial and media bias. There is no longer a government for the people; just for people or things with a lot of money.

 

[Paco]

I have no problem with a cop (or cops) shooting someone threatening them with a knife, but I do have a problem with the fact that if the boyfriend who called the cops had shot her instead of calling, it would've been a run-of-the-mill domestic violence case and he would've spent the rest of his life in prison, if not gotten the death penalty in some jurisdictions.

I certainly don't want anyone to have to kill anyone else, but if it's justifiable for a cop (or cops) to shoot the knife-wielding woman for the same threat the boyfriend called them out to address, then the boyfriend (or any other domestic "arrangement") should get the benefit of the doubt that they were justified instead of automatically being assumed to be a wife-killer or beater or whatever.

When cops are treated better than the citizens they serve, that's a sure sign of a police state in action.

Blues

Yup.
This is very true.
I have personal experience with the "Birds of a feather" syndrome.
There are as many dysfunctional women out there as there are dysfunctional men....and they do tend to be attracted to each other. This is a very well known fact of dysfunctional relationships. Sometimes someone is harmed by a significant other because that particular person happens to simply be the "weapon of choice" that the one self-destructive person chooses to use against THEMSELVES. This does NOT excuse violence, but the dynamic is far more complicated than people want to believe.
But I think that good, well trained cops understand this. I had to call the police once because a woman I was dating started to throw things at me. I considered this to be a serious escalation of an argument to the level of an assault and so I called the police. When they arrived they did not jump to conclusions. They remained (a little bit frustratingly to me) neutral, and asked some relevant questions.....and very quickly determined who the "crazy" one probably was.

Domestic disputes are dangerous, and not just for the two main actors; they are notoriously dangerous situations for the police to intervene into as well.