Why Competion and Bullseye Shooting Will KIll You


Deanimator said:
You keep missing as fast as you can.

For extra points, do it while flying through the air, a pistol in each hand, like in a John Woo movie.
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while you're lining your sights up your adversary is pumping rounds into you. if you train you learn how to put the rounds where they need to go quickly.
open your closed mind, maybe you'll become safer when outside of a range
http://pointshooting.com/1apswins.htm
http://pointshooting.com/1arobber.htm
http://pointshooting.com/1a2auto.htm
http://pointshooting.com/1aeasy.htm
 
NavyLCDR said:
There are two things that I like to know about my defensive firearm and ammunition combination - where the consistent point of impact compared to my point of aim is, and what the maximum achievable accuracy is. The best way to determine those two things is through slow, deliberate shooting for accuracy. So if you want to call that a waste of time....go right ahead.
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training is NOT the issue, how you train IS.
 
Stengun said:
Howdy apvbguy,



Just out of idle curiosity.........

How many shootouts/gunfights have you survived?

How many times have you been shot at by someone trying to kill you?

How many times have you shot a gun at someone that was shooting back at you?

Unless your "score" on the above questions is significantly higher than mine, I'll pass on taking gunfighting/shootout advice from you and the OP.

Paul
Paul
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you are free to have and express your opinions regardless of how ill informed they are.
 
NavyLCDR said:
There are two things that I like to know about my defensive firearm and ammunition combination - where the consistent point of impact compared to my point of aim is, and what the maximum achievable accuracy is. The best way to determine those two things is through slow, deliberate shooting for accuracy. So if you want to call that a waste of time....go right ahead.
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I agree 100% with this. You need to know how you shoot with your chosen firearm before you can really begin to train in more dynamic drills. Even those of us that espouse combat accuracy understand that it does boil down to understanding basic marksmanship & firearm performance.

Personally, I don't see slow deliberate shooting as a waste of time at all. When I go to the range that's exactly how I start most every session. Then, I move on to more specific drills that may include movement, malfunctions, multiple targets, etc, etc. However, there are times when I begin "cold" with a dynamic drill that involves movement & multiple targets; because in a read world SD situation you won't have the benefit of a warm up grouping.



-
 
Howdy apvbguy,

apvbguy said:
you are free to have and express your opinions regardless of how ill informed they are.
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My opinion is based on Real World experiences.

What is your opinion based on? Playing "Call of Dooty" on your Mom's Xbox while she's at her Senior Water Aerobics class?

Believe it or not there are at lest a couple on members of this forum that have been involved in either a SD/HD shooting, a LEO shooting or a Military Combat Veteran.

From the POV of someone that's "Been there and done that. " you do not know what you are talking about.

Time to add you to my list of "Keyboard Kommandos".

Paul
 
Forget about shooting human targets. If you can't shoot down a drone carrying a bomb your behind is fried. After the SHTF and the smoke clears out, skeet shooters will be the only survivors. Focusing on the ability to stop human targets in the second half of the second decade of the 21st century is about as useful as hoarding postage stamps.
 
Amsdorf said:
It never ceases to amaze me how stupid conversations on gun fora are when it comes to the difference between combat accuracy and competition "bullseye" shooting.

Combat shooting is about placing EFFECTIVE hits on target, as much as necessary, to NEUTRALIZE the threat. What does "neutralize' mean? It means you have pumped enough lead into the bad guy to prevent him from doing anymore harm.

Talk to any true expert in this subject matter and they will tell you:

1) The handgun is a weak weapon to begin with.
2) Most handgun fights take place within 15 feet, and last no more than three seconds, and no more than three shot.
3) You have to be able to get shots off quickly, using your front sight only, and aim for center mass.

This drives the competition kind of shooters nuts. They think the ultimate goal of all shooting is to put rounds through the same hole in paper.

NO.

The goal is to make the EMT's job hard, or the coroner's job hard. If you are putting rounds in the same or close to the same hole, you are are not placing shots EFFECTIVELY.

The goal is to get as many shots into center mass as required to stop the bad buy.

Head shots? Cool, if possible.

Shots to the "electrical" or "hyraulics" system...yes, great.

Putting shots into the chest and stomach cavity as many as needed? Ideal. But put shots into the pelvis, and the guy is going DOWN. No question. Put four shots into the chest general area, and he is having a bad day. Don't stop shooting until he is down and not moving. Look for the hand so hang loosely, a sign he is dead or unconscience. Be ready to pump a couple more into the not not-moving bad guy if it looks like he is still squirming.

If you think that in a gun fight you will have time to get your sights aligned perfectly and squeeze off "perfect" shots, this will just get you dead, dead and ... dead.

The goal is to engage your threat with the front sight on target and squeeze off as many shots as required to neutralize the bad guy.

End of sermon.
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Sorry but no. You are missing the point of matches and competition to include Bulls Eye Pistol.

Each sport from Bulls Eye to IDPA to what ever is practice for the Self Defense minded shooter. It's not training, nor should it be looked at as such.

To say that practice with any type of time pressure and accuracy standards is bad, is just wrong and narrow minded.
 
While there is a difference between "combat" accuracy and "target" accuracy, I fail to see where competition training is a bad thing. Participating in competitions can help you perfect your stance, draw, presentation, grip, sighting and trigger control. In some competitions, doing all these things with speed equates to a win. In a self-defense situation, doing all these things with speed and proper mindset can save your life. I have an acceptable level of accuracy I try to obtain while training in simulated self-defense scenarios, it's usually as tight as I can get while consistently scoring "effective" hits. If I'm shooting tiny little groups too slowly, then I can speed things up slightly. If my speed is impeding those "effective" hits, then I slow it down.

"No one is going to have to tell you to shoot faster in a gunfight but, effective hits are the only sure way to end the fight in your favor." ~ Larry Vickers

Smart words, IMO.
 
This (the OP) is just another example of some internet expert that likes to think they know what is best for everyone else.
 
gunnerbob said:
While there is a difference between "combat" accuracy and "target" accuracy, I fail to see where competition training is a bad thing.
"No one is going to have to tell you to shoot faster in a gunfight but, effective hits are the only sure way to end the fight in your favor." ~ Larry Vickers

Smart words, IMO.
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gunnerbob,

Great post.

I would say the idea behind "combat" accuracy and "target" accuracy, is false as a idea. I am quoting you because you typed it (not believe in this myth)

The terms are based on people that can not shoot well. When the group is large they say (well that's combat accurate) what these people miss is if you shoot small groups in training and practice when the stress of a real shooting hits a person, the groups get larger.

If you are (combat accurate) in practice / training you become combat ineffective quickly.

If you are (target accurate) in practice / training you become the level of (combat accurate) real quick.

John
 
What I see here is somebody unable to hold the eight ring at fifty feet, one handed, attacking others for being able to hold the ten ring.

It's not about self-defense.

It's about justifying ones own deficits of skill by dismissing the abilities of others.

After a certain point, it's like watching somebody who writes dirty limericks in bathroom stalls attacking professional writers...
 
Howdy,

NavyLCDR said:
This (the OP) is just another example of some internet expert that likes to think they know what is best for everyone else.
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The OP and a couple of other posters in this thread are what I refer to as Keyboard Kommandos. Internet Gun Experts that are totally clueless. Heck, most don't even own a real gun.

Paul
 
Stengun said:
Howdy,



The OP and a couple of other posters in this thread are what I refer to as Keyboard Kommandos. Internet Gun Experts that are totally clueless. Heck, most don't even own a real gun.

Paul
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Troll post.

Sent from my D6616 using USA Carry mobile app
 
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