Yep.
Why carry open in town?
- Thread starter Horseman
- Start date
Yep.
BC1
,
For me personally, I wouldn't want the attention. I don't want anyone's attention for any reason. I like it under the radar. And I don't want to talk about guns with strangers. But... if its what you prefer and its legal then carry-on.
Danieljoe1
New member
I cc, does that mean you would not want me to pull my gun to assist you? How about the fact I carry an XD full size? Same old aguments time after time after time. I do believe my sig says it all
Firefighterchen
OC for Tactical Advantage
Danieljoe1
New member
Firefighter, I speak to ANYONE who wants to have the whole Open/Concealed fight. The non-trolls understand, just as there is no "supergun" there is no "super" way to carry. There is only what I, the person carrying, feels comfortable with. What I have noticed, is those who just have to scream about the who\what\when\where\why\how of carrying and how their way is better, are trying to convince themselves that their decision is the correct one.
Those of us who carry need to make a few decisions for ourselves while realizing the drawbacks as well as the positives. My handgun is heavy, but I get a bit more stability and recoil management. I sacrifice draw speed so random people dont feel the need to approach me (just to name a few). Tradeoffs I have taken into account and made the decision about. Bottom line, when the defecation hits the oscillating air mover, I dont care what your carrying (as long as its a firearm) or how you carry it. Ill be glad for the backup.
And yes, it is all about the I I dont know about anyone else, but I cant afford to pay you to follow me around carrying YOUR way
Those of us who carry need to make a few decisions for ourselves while realizing the drawbacks as well as the positives. My handgun is heavy, but I get a bit more stability and recoil management. I sacrifice draw speed so random people dont feel the need to approach me (just to name a few). Tradeoffs I have taken into account and made the decision about. Bottom line, when the defecation hits the oscillating air mover, I dont care what your carrying (as long as its a firearm) or how you carry it. Ill be glad for the backup.
And yes, it is all about the I I dont know about anyone else, but I cant afford to pay you to follow me around carrying YOUR way
CharlesMorrison
Banned
How would you know? I haven't even listed my fee as of yet for that service...
Sent from behind Enemy Lines.
OC in a rural or semi rural area is probably okay, but in a city environment it just isn't smart. Hard core criminals, knowing that someone is carrying, will sometimes just take violent action immediately rather than back off if they really intend on victimizing you. That way they will have another gun to either use or sell. How many people who OC have had training on weapon retention? As a former uniform officer that was one of the problems we had - perps trying to take our weapons during a fight or struggle. It happened to me several times, but my retention training, as well as a desire to stay alive, kept them from getting it.
While criminals may not target someone they know to be armed they also won't target someone who shows that they are aware and confident. People end up being victims mostly because they act like victims. My Dad always told me, and I've passed it on to my sons, to walk like you have a purpose in life. Head up, shoulders back, with purpose in your step. It goes a long way to not being a victim. Look people in the eye. Acknowledge people. Those that walk with their head down, on their mobile device in public, and shuffling along, are much more likely to be victimized than those that show confidence in themselves.
I was in line at the grocery store the other day behind someone who was a carrying OC. He kept turning his weapon towards me, oblivious to the fact I was standing next to him. He would have crapped his pants if he had known I was also carrying or if I snatched the weapon from him before he realized I was standing there. That's what I'm talking about. If a person is trained and aware like I explained above, OC may be fine. For the average person who just thinks that criminals will automatically be intimidated, it's not a good idea.
While criminals may not target someone they know to be armed they also won't target someone who shows that they are aware and confident. People end up being victims mostly because they act like victims. My Dad always told me, and I've passed it on to my sons, to walk like you have a purpose in life. Head up, shoulders back, with purpose in your step. It goes a long way to not being a victim. Look people in the eye. Acknowledge people. Those that walk with their head down, on their mobile device in public, and shuffling along, are much more likely to be victimized than those that show confidence in themselves.
I was in line at the grocery store the other day behind someone who was a carrying OC. He kept turning his weapon towards me, oblivious to the fact I was standing next to him. He would have crapped his pants if he had known I was also carrying or if I snatched the weapon from him before he realized I was standing there. That's what I'm talking about. If a person is trained and aware like I explained above, OC may be fine. For the average person who just thinks that criminals will automatically be intimidated, it's not a good idea.
Why in the world would he crap his pants if he had known you were also carrying?!? Really? A person openly carrying a gun just doesn't seem to be the hoplophobe type who craps their pants at the thought of others carrying a gun.
CharlesMorrison
Banned
Don't sweat it Navy! He sounds like the usual "anti gun lite" who thinks all us gun folk are uneducated morons with guns..
As a former LEO, only he is worthy of "packin a piece".
Sounds like he is also anti OC...
I'll tell ya... Maybe he shoulda not become an officer of "Homeland Security(?)" then, what with all us folks on the watch lists....
Sent from behind Enemy Lines.
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Bikenut
Guest
While retention training is a very good thing to have along with a retention holster another good thing to have is a back up gun to use on those idiots who think someone OCing isn't aware and is just a walking target for some arrogant stupid fish (dum bass) thinking it would be a good idea to pull a gun grab.
One more thing.... care to cite and/or link to all those scary gun grabs that happen to non LEOs? You know... ordinary people who don't go searching out perps on purpose as part of their jobs to get into scuffles with? Surely you can find a plethora of incidents to prove your point that everyday ordinary OC'ers are easy targets for criminals looking to grab a gun? Let me suggest beginning your search in Arizona where OC has been an everyday thing by ordinary folks for decades! Surely you can find hundreds if not thousands of incidents where criminals snuck up on an OC'er and grabbed his/her gun?
BluesStringer
Les Brers
There probably aren't that many stories about that specific issue, because the criminals usually just open up on the OC'er. You're an OC'er, Bikenut. Haven't you been opened up on a couple or three times a month since you started OC'ing?
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Bikenut
Guest
Actually it seems some anti gunner "lite" opens up on OC in this and many other forums at least 3 or more times a month with the same old mantra of "OC is stupid because yer gonna get shot first!" and "The bad guy is gonna grab yer gun and shove it up yer arse!" BS... and when asked to provide actual facts complete with cites and/or links to any of that happening to non LE (who do not seek out criminals as part of their job) in a number large enough to be a concern all that is heard is.............................. crickets.There probably aren't that many stories about that specific issue, because the criminals usually just open up on the OC'er. You're an OC'er, Bikenut. Haven't you been opened up on a couple or three times a month since you started OC'ing?
Maybe LE should start carrying concealed so they aren't victims of gun grabs when they try to apprehend criminals?
Oh I left out... "Yer gonna scare the wimmen and kids so be a man and and get a ... permit... so you can cover up yer gun ya attention seeking low self esteem show off before ya screw up our gun rights!"
telpinaro
New member
I think the only time the "gonna get shot first" thing even remotely applies is if you're an armed guard in a professional bank robbery. And only time OC is gonna worry me is when a guy OC's a Glock in a kydex holster meant for a revolver. I have no idea how that even fit. I didn't see it first hand... a friend took a picture and showed me later. Good zoom on his camera phone!
Firefighterchen
OC for Tactical Advantage
I open carry and crap my pants...double deterrent.
Sent from my HTCONE using USA Carry mobile app
Sent from my HTCONE using USA Carry mobile app
golddigger14s
SFC At Fort Lewis, WA
Just out of curiosity, where did the term of "tactical Advantage" come from the CC only crowd? I did a lot of time in the Army. and never referred to our method of carry (OC) as a tactical advantage. It was called deterrence.
First off I apologize to anyone I offended using the term gun nut. It's what I've used for years and I consider myself one. If the term gun enthusiast is more appropriate to not offend people I will use that in the future. I'm not exactly know for being politically correct in my writings.
While there are some cops and former cops out there that think they should be the only ones carrying, I am definitely not one of them. I wish more people were legally armed, but I also wish there was more training taken by many of them. While I agree that a lot of cops get off on a power trip, that is by no means all of them, and all shouldn't be categorized that way. That would be like saying all car salesmen are crooked, when in fact that is nowhere near the truth.
As far as the guy next to me in open carry crapping his pants, again I probably used a bad way to paraphrase what I was trying to say. Based on the way that guy was opening his weapon side to me and unaware of people being close to him I think he would have been surprised to know someone standing next to him was also carrying. Open carry limits your weapon retention capabilities. Whenever possible when I was in plain clothes I covered the weapon I was carrying with a jacket, unless it was just too hot to do so.
As far as proof of open carry being hazardous in an urban environment I have no copies of reports to produce, but I know that I responded more than once to calls for service with victims being robbed of their weapons. Sure, some were in security uniform, but not all. I did work one scene where a victim was shot in the head and his gun taken out of his holster. So I wasn't just making up stats to express my point, but I've been there to see it. In low crime areas and less populated areas of people want to open carry, fine. In a high crime urban area it just doesn't make sense to me.
One last thing: it's easy to be a cop hater and generalize what ALL cops are like if you haven't been in their shoes. I would never claim to know what it's like to be a military man and go to war because I've never been there. There is no way I could generalize what I think military men and women are like because I haven't been there. So of you haven't been there to answer calls for service, fought for your life with a convicted felon hell bent on not going to jail again, done CPR on a kid, or whatever other thousands of things cops do, don't generalize and try to say what all cops are like. Ride the best car first, then talk any way you want.
I've expressed how I felt about open carry compared to concealed carry and apologize if anyone was offended by my opinion. I am in no way an anti gunner lite or any other kind. I strongly support the 2nd Amendment and the right for legal citizens to protect themselves.
While there are some cops and former cops out there that think they should be the only ones carrying, I am definitely not one of them. I wish more people were legally armed, but I also wish there was more training taken by many of them. While I agree that a lot of cops get off on a power trip, that is by no means all of them, and all shouldn't be categorized that way. That would be like saying all car salesmen are crooked, when in fact that is nowhere near the truth.
As far as the guy next to me in open carry crapping his pants, again I probably used a bad way to paraphrase what I was trying to say. Based on the way that guy was opening his weapon side to me and unaware of people being close to him I think he would have been surprised to know someone standing next to him was also carrying. Open carry limits your weapon retention capabilities. Whenever possible when I was in plain clothes I covered the weapon I was carrying with a jacket, unless it was just too hot to do so.
As far as proof of open carry being hazardous in an urban environment I have no copies of reports to produce, but I know that I responded more than once to calls for service with victims being robbed of their weapons. Sure, some were in security uniform, but not all. I did work one scene where a victim was shot in the head and his gun taken out of his holster. So I wasn't just making up stats to express my point, but I've been there to see it. In low crime areas and less populated areas of people want to open carry, fine. In a high crime urban area it just doesn't make sense to me.
One last thing: it's easy to be a cop hater and generalize what ALL cops are like if you haven't been in their shoes. I would never claim to know what it's like to be a military man and go to war because I've never been there. There is no way I could generalize what I think military men and women are like because I haven't been there. So of you haven't been there to answer calls for service, fought for your life with a convicted felon hell bent on not going to jail again, done CPR on a kid, or whatever other thousands of things cops do, don't generalize and try to say what all cops are like. Ride the best car first, then talk any way you want.
I've expressed how I felt about open carry compared to concealed carry and apologize if anyone was offended by my opinion. I am in no way an anti gunner lite or any other kind. I strongly support the 2nd Amendment and the right for legal citizens to protect themselves.
CharlesMorrison
Banned
Cites and links...
Or it didn't happen..
Sent from behind Enemy Lines.
Or it didn't happen..
Sent from behind Enemy Lines.
Bit of a loaded question for post number one?
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Bikenut
Guest
Let me apologize also... for my somewhat abrasive manner in an earlier post asking for cites and/or links to gun grabs happening to ordinary everyday folks who are not LE. It seems someone starts that old OC'ers will be "shot first" or have their "gun grabbed" routine 3 or 4 times a month yet never seem to be able to post cites and/or links to actual factual incidents in any number large enough to be a statistical concern. Can it happen? Sure.. and it can happen to a concealed carrier too. But.... HAS it happened to non LE/non security everyday OC'ers and how often has it happened? Consider that folks have been open carrying in just Arizona for decades yet OC'ers being shot first or having their guns grabbed doesn't seem to have happened much or be happening much or the media would have a field day.
About the part of your post I put in bold for emphasis...
Bear with me as I ask the following because I'd like clarification. You mentioned that in some of those incidents some of the victims were in uniform as security guards and then left the implication that all of the rest were open carriers. Were the rest open carriers or were they concealed carriers? Or were some of them domestic incidents where the gun wasn't carried at all? Was the victim who was shot in the head and his gun taken from his holster LE, security, a CC'er, or an ordinary non LE OC'er?
And the request for cites and/or links still stands. Folks have learned to ask for proof, actual factual proof, when claims are made (doesn't matter who makes that claim... some of us want actual FACTS) that non LE get their guns grabbed or are shot first simply because with today's gun phobic media such incidents would probably be covered every 15 minutes for days on end (not to mention what the Bloomberg funded anti gun organizations would do with it) yet the astonishing lack of media coverage (and the silence from the anti gun orgs.) of such incidents, and the implications of that lack of coverage (and silence), is stunning.
Hopefully with your background in LE you will take my request for facts for what it is since it is not an attempt to denigrate your personal experiences or opinions but is an attempt to get to provable facts because without provable facts what you mentioned falls into the category of anecdotal evidence and personal opinion. Not knocking either but facts carry much more weight.
BluesStringer
Les Brers
It's easy to generalize about what non-LEOs can't possibly know without actually having been an LEO. I guess it would logically follow then, that a current/former/retired LEO can't possibly know the indignation of non-LEO-types who are either victims of or family members of victims of cop brutality for which the cop(s) are never held accountable. Logically following your statement would be the axiom that current/former/retired cops can't understand that the special treatment they get under LEOSA is antithetical to the common citizen that the premise of government of, by and for We, The People is meaningful at all. The thought that a representative of government could lecture to us lowly citizens that our status as the constitutional beneficiaries of government servitude to us is repugnant to anyone who understands what the words, "We, The People" actually means. "Ride the best car first, then talk any way you want." Never heard that saying before (if it is a saying), but the "best car" is the one that minimizes government authority the most over the personal choices that free men and women should be "allowed" to make for themselves. Someone who took an oath to the Constitution telling someone else not to talk any way they want about any subject is not someone who can convince this free man that he believes in the 1st Amendment, and likewise, if that same person tries to tell law-abiding citizens who choose to OC that it's "fine" in the area he says it is, but that "it makes no sense" in places where he says it isn't "fine," ain't all that big on the 2nd Amendment either.
It's hard to believe that anyone who took an oath to the Constitution and still participated in no-knock warrants gives much of a damn about the Constitution or his oath. It is also hard to believe that anyone who was a cop within the last 10 or 15 years didn't participate in no-knock searches.
When you start limiting what people can discuss based on a specific life-experience (or lack thereof), you start to make it real easy for your target readers, in this case non-LEOs who deign to believe one way or another about the trustworthiness of cops, you open the door to the complete opposite argument being made about what you don't know from the free citizens' perspective.
A bit of free advice: Don't ever tell a free citizen what their idea of a "best car" should be, or what they can say, think or believe about the car that was "best" for you that you made the free choice to drive.
Kind of a weird analogy, I know, but I'm just goin' with what you gave me.
Blues
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