Whats your opinion on the florida shooting?

[BC1]

Yes, you could make it clear that you didn't want the neighborhood watch on your property but was that the case here?? There's nothing to say that it was. You're introducing a variable that no evidence of exists. That would be like a Zimmerman defender saying "Well maybe Martin picked up an axe that soneone left outside of their house....". There's just no evidence of it. But even if it was, that would make Zimmerman guilty of trespassing, not murder. We have to deal with what we know....not with unsubstantiated "maybes" and "what-ifs" of which there are an infinite number.

I've lived in gated communities. Obviously the neighborhood watch was sanctioned by the HOA. It wouldn't have been operating inside a gated community if it wasn't and the stories I've read make it clear that the watch had been operating for a while. And if Zimmerman were a legal resident of the community (quite likely since gated communities don't usually allow non-residents access like that) then he could simply do it on his own.

My development has a HOA and although we're not gated, we still have "common ground" such as a swimming pool, clubhouse, and rec area that's owned and operated by the HOA (of which I, as a homeowner, am a member). When I bought my house I bought into this common ground and my monthly dues maintain it. It's considered private property of which I am an owner. I would be 100% within my rights (and anyone else whose legal residence is within the development) to confront someone on that property whom I thought was trespassing or up to no good. It doesn't give me the right to harass anyone but I can question them and expect them to respond accordingly just as if they were on my own personal property.

Zimmerman may have broken more than one law but confronting a stranger within this gated community doesn't appear to be one of them. He was well within his rights to follow and question an unrecognized person who he believed was acting suspiciously. It's what happened after that that'll determine who's at fault.

B2: My comments are mere speculation. In NYS we don't have a stand-your-ground provision in our castle doctrine so the specifics are foreign to me. As I understand it, the law gives the right to stand one's ground when attacked. But does such a defense still apply when the defender helped to escalate a confrontation? In NYS we must be the totally innocent victim, did not initiate a confrontation or participate in it's escalation (like road rage). Perhaps I should read-up on the FL provision to understand it better.

 

[B2Tall]

B2: My comments are mere speculation. In NYS we don't have a stand-your-ground provision in our castle doctrine so the specifics are foreign to me. As I understand it, the law gives the right to stand one's ground when attacked. But does such a defense still apply when the defender helped to escalate a confrontation? In NYS we must be the totally innocent victim, did not initiate a confrontation or participate in it's escalation (like road rage). Perhaps I should read-up on the FL provision to understand it better.

I don't believe for one second that SYG applies here. Unless Martin had a deadly weapon or Zimmerman was/is in extremely poor health and couldn't flee or defend himself (unlikely) then there'll be no SYG defense here. The law doesn't permit anyone to shoot anyone else just because there's a physical confrontation. There has to be a reasonable threat of death or serious bodily harm. I find it hard to believe that Zimmerman is going to be able to convince anyone that an unarmed kid half his size was a real threat.

As far as escalation goes, the point that I (and others) are trying to make is that a private property owner or their representative is absolutely within their rights to confront and question someone on that property, and a gated community is private property. There's a right way to do it and a wrong way to do it, but in and of itself it's not escalation.....no more so than if I went out to someone standing on my lawn and asked them what they were doing. Of course if I chose to confront that person by charging out of my house with fists flying then I'd be in the wrong. Maybe that's what Zimmerman did, maybe not.

Again, it's what transpired after the initial contact between the two that's the real question.

 

[FN1910]

The HOA has been silent AFAIK about Zimmerman's position. One report I read said he was "self-appointed." Another said he was the only one to volunteer when the HOA called for such. Link Removed

I've emailed two reporters, in Miami and Orlando, asking them who has checked up with the HOA to see what they have to say. No response from either.

In condos, typically doesn't the HOA own the yard? Or at least up to a certain distance from the structure?

It is unconscionable to me that the Sanford PD didn't check the cellphone logs of the people involved in a fatal shooting. That is an absolute failure of training and supervision. There is no excuse at all for that failure. For the father of the deceased to come up with that phone call is a total slap in the face WRT to the right of the deceased to be properly represented. You don't walk up to a fatal shooting, hear the shooter say, "It was self-defense," and be done with your investigation.

As much as in my opinion Zimmerman screwed up, it is a fact that the police screwed up way beyond imagination. From what I have read and heard as you say the police came arrived and didn't even bother to investigate what happened. They just looked at the scene and told Zimmerman to have a nice day even letting him leave with his pistol. There was no follow up investigation from anyone. They took Zimmerman at his word that it was self-defense and closed the case. The police have made this scandal what it is and not Zimmerman. I have no idea if race played a part in this or what but to say it wasn't handled properly is an understatement by far. I don't know what happened between Zimmerman and Martin but the police should have at least tried to find out before closing the case.

 

[JohnD13]

I think the guy thought that "Neighborhood Watch" made him an instant LEO. He made a huge mistake in shooting the teenager. Now Sharpton, and Jackson, and all their political and "social" allies will be all over the place, making money off the kid's family's tragedy. I'd almost bet that Florida's law will be reviewed by the "Justice Dept."

 

[SGB]

As much as in my opinion Zimmerman screwed up, it is a fact that the police screwed up way beyond imagination. From what I have read and heard as you say the police came arrived and didn't even bother to investigate what happened. They just looked at the scene and told Zimmerman to have a nice day even letting him leave with his pistol. There was no follow up investigation from anyone. They took Zimmerman at his word that it was self-defense and closed the case. The police have made this scandal what it is and not Zimmerman. I have no idea if race played a part in this or what but to say it wasn't handled properly is an understatement by far. I don't know what happened between Zimmerman and Martin but the police should have at least tried to find out before closing the case.

What a complete load of

manure.

Sanford, Florida, police answer questions about teen's shooting death – This Just In - CNN.com Blogs

Link Removed

 

[cmhbob]

No, they didn't let him keep his pistol, they booked it into evidence. SGB has now twice posted the preliminary report from Sanford PD that states this.

But they did hose the investigation badly. You don't correct witnesses when they're telling their version of events. And if you find a cellphone, you check the call logs for those phones, no matter who they belong to. Hell,k even if you don't find a phone, you ask family members if your victim had one, then look for the logs.

SPD screwed this one up.

 

[jhodge83]

George Zimmerman, Trayvon Martin

saw this article just now. says he's had domestic violence charges filed against him and arrested for assaulting a cop. it also says he had aspired to get into LE. track record looks like he was trying to be a sheepdog. when FL issues CWPs (or whatever they may call them), do they not do background checks? if you've had a domestic violence charge here, you're not getting a permit. hell, in the guard every year i have to sign a document about not having domestic violence charges before they'l let me have a gun for the military.

 

[walt629]

I'm not so sure this is private property. If this was a gated community who owns the street? Can any person make a claim to own it?

If I'm not mistaken, a gated community is responsible for everything inside the gate. At least that's the way it is in my county. Our community HOA was told we would be responsible for the repair and maintenance of the common grounds, the lighting, sewer, and street maintenance if we were to erect gates at the entrance to the community. I'm assuming it is the same in Orange county (I think) where Sanford is located.

 

[B2Tall]

George Zimmerman, Trayvon Martin

saw this article just now. says he's had domestic violence charges filed against him and arrested for assaulting a cop. it also says he had aspired to get into LE. track record looks like he was trying to be a sheepdog. when FL issues CWPs (or whatever they may call them), do they not do background checks? if you've had a domestic violence charge here, you're not getting a permit. hell, in the guard every year i have to sign a document about not having domestic violence charges before they'l let me have a gun for the military.

A little more light is being shed on Trayvon Martin as well. He was in Sanford because he had been suspended from school for 10 days......10 days! A source sympathetic to the family claims that Martin was suspended for tardiness. Unlikely since a suspension that long is usually brought about by a far more serious offense than "tardiness". The school district is refusing comment as is the family. Hmmmmm. Martin was also 6'3" and somebody that tall wearing baggy clothes at night can easily look like they weigh 220-230 instead of 140 as the family claims. I've thought it was odd that the pictures we're seeing of Martin were apparently taken 4-5 years ago. I guess it's more sensational to see the victim as a 12 yr-old than as a young man. I've seen other resports (including a statement by the Martin family lawyer) that Zimmerman's weight was closer to 200 lbs and not the 250 reported earlier.

None of this excuses Zimmerman's apparently reckless, aggressive behavior but I'm sure this will all come out if/when he's charged with murder or manslaughter.

 

[SGB]

George Zimmerman, Trayvon Martin

saw this article just now. says he's had domestic violence charges filed against him and arrested for assaulting a cop. it also says he had aspired to get into LE. track record looks like he was trying to be a sheepdog. when FL issues CWPs (or whatever they may call them), do they not do background checks? if you've had a domestic violence charge here, you're not getting a permit. hell, in the guard every year i have to sign a document about not having domestic violence charges before they'l let me have a gun for the military.

You say "says he's had domestic violence charges filed against him" the article you linked says "A woman accused the man who fatally shot Trayvon Martin of domestic violence ............ In 2005, a woman filed a petition for an injunction against Zimmerman, claiming that he came to her house and became violent when she told him to leave, Link Removed. Zimmerman, 21 at the time, filed a petition of his own in response."

Why the untruth in your post? Alligations in a civil injunction are far from a crimal complaint with charges. And being arrested ? Is everyone arrested guilty? The charges it happens were dropped ...... based on the account leading up to the arrest can you say overzealous Officer? We don't know and it's only convictions that count in this country last I knew.

 

[SGB]

Link Removed

 

[B2Tall]

Link Removed

That's a great article.

 

[FN1910]

What a complete load of

manure.

Sanford, Florida, police answer questions about teen's shooting death – This Just In - CNN.com Blogs

Link Removed

The Sanford City Manager was on TV last night and said that he was allowed to carry his gun home with him after the shooting but it was later booked into evidence. This sounds like more BS coming from the city on this case. I don't know what they did, only what they are claiming but I do know that the police screwed up this investigation royally and there is no denying or doubt about that. What Zimmerman did or didn't do is immaterial to that part of it. They pointed out at least four contradictions in the Chief's prepared statement yesterday so right now he is on leave.

 

[Dale64]

I still say Zimmerman never should have confronted the boy.
It is my opinion that Trayvon thought the guy was a weirdo and felt he needed to defend himself.
For all he knew this guy could have been a pedophile.

 

[Bttbbob]

Here are some facts that nobody denies. 1- He lived in that community 2-He called 911 3-He had the right to be there 4-Police declined to arrest him due to lack of evidence. 4-He had a concealed weapons permit 5-He had the right to ask anyone in the community if they lived there. Regardless of who it was.(if someone was walking in my front or back yard I would confront them, maybe in a more polite way, maybe not). 6- We have a dead 17 yr old black male (That did not look like the 13 yr old in the pictures in the press) 7-Zimmerman's background has been scrutinized by everyone 8-Trayvon Martins lawyer has sealed all previous police records and school records including why he was suspended for 5 days. 9- Trayvon Martin belonged in the community where this happened. 10-This has been misrepresented in the press and by the black community. 11-This very well could be a perfect example of why we have Stand your Ground. 12- It could be manslaughter. 13 The investigation isn't over. 14- It is horrible that a 17 yr old is dead regardless of the reason.

Now anyone says that they have more evidence than that just ain't telling the truth.

 

[tattedupboy]

I know I'll probably get flamed for this, but I can't help but feel that if this were a Black man shooting an unarmed White teenager under the exact same circumstances, that Black man would have been arrested on the spot.

 

[FN1910]

BTTBBOB - You forgot to add that when this finally comes to trial and it will go to trial most of the evidence, if there is any real evidence, of what happened will be thrown out due to contamination and a downright poor initial investigation. You can't wait until days later to go back to the scene and try to determine what happened no matter what they show on CSI and a former police chief on TV made that comment last night. Unless the jury fears for their lives at the trial I expect Zimmerman to be found not-guilty and riots to break out. However I don't expect the Sanford police chief to ever get his job back.

 

[rifleshooter474]

I will never believe that small kid attacked that big dude,I really feel he murdered the kid. Just MHO about it.

 

[wooddoctor]

Here is a Line. Two sides to the story. I do not believe the sewage that spews from the pipeline of the Media.
The Media has the sheeple thinking that Zimmerman is White, so they got a hold of the Race Pimp Sharpton to make it a Raccccciiiissst thing, wont he be surprised?

Link Removed

 

[Bttbbob]

Rifleshooter474,

Stop reading the paper, this was a 17 yr old 6'2 180 lb kid. Google his name and look at the updated photos, not the 13 yr old pictures the press has posted.