What would you say to a restaurant with a "No Gun's" sign?

[rocketboy]

Again I carry into them and keep my mouth shut.

Only to go blather on about it in a public forum. Yikes.

 

[Grognard Gunny]

Supposed to be a free Country, heavily enguaged in "free enterprise". Thus, the owner can post all the signs he likes. No skin off my nose.

I vote with my dollars. My dollars go where they are wanted, me and my trusty "six gun".

GG

 

[bob16066]

A favorite restaurant I go to once a week, maybe every other week just put up a sign by their door "No Gun's Allowed". This disappoints me in many areas but I am asking, how would you handle it?

I thought of writing the owner a letter, including things like "how do you plan to protect me and my family while we are there"? "You do realize that bad guy's won't read that sign right"? or other things. I don't want to come across TOO firm but firm enough.

So, write me a letter, rather write a letter to a place that would get our point across.

thanks.

Gimpy

Some of the replies to this Post are Irresponsible, show No Respect for the Law and No Respect for Private Property Rights. All of the things Anti-Gunners say about us!

In many Jurisdictions a "No Guns" sign carries the force of Law. And anyone who disregards it IS a criminal!!!

You have 1st and 2nd Amendment Rights. But not on some one else's Private Property. A Restaurant IS Private Property.

The Restaurant owner Doesn't have the Right to crap on Your Property. He must Respect your wishes in this matter. Just as you must Respect His wishes on His Property!

If we don't have Private Property rights we don't have Gun Rights either. Gun Rights are derived from Private Property Rights. They stand or fall together.

Respect the law. Respect Private Property. Or you may end up with neither.

 

[Treo]

Some of the replies to this Post are Irresponsible, show No Respect for the Law and No Respect for Private Property Rights. All of the things Anti-Gunners say about us!

In many Jurisdictions a "No Guns" sign carries the force of Law. And anyone who disregards it IS a criminal!!!

You have 1st and 2nd Amendment Rights. But not on some one else's Private Property. A Restaurant IS Private Property.

The Restaurant owner Doesn't have the Right to crap on Your Property. He must Respect your wishes in this matter. Just as you must Respect His wishes on His Property!

If we don't have Private Property rights we don't have Gun Rights either. Gun Rights are derived from Private Property Rights. They stand or fall together.

Respect the law. Respect Private Property. Or you may end up with neither.

There is a difference between private property and property that is open to the public. If property owner's rights prevail can I open a restaurant w/ a seperate section for "colored" folks?

 

[Grognard Gunny]

Already been "done", and a solution was found at the Supreme Court level.

I suppose we could take the same approach.... but I'm not busybody enough to give a rodent's posterior on the matter. I just go my merry way..... elsewhere.

GG

 

[Rabbitcreekok]

If I’m carrying a concealed weapon it affects no one but me. No one else is even going to know unless I have to draw. A business owner has the right to run his business as he sees fit but not to the point that he's telling me I can't do something that has no effect on anyone else in the establishment.


If I enter your place of business with my Firearm it will remain in its holster on my hip unless needed. My mere possession of a firearm does not infringe on your right to life or liberty, It will not affect your ability to make money that day, and It will not drive your customers away (I never advocated the open display of a firearm in a Criminal Protection Zone).

The rule (and any such like it) is illogical because the criminals aren’t going to follow it anyway. What do you supposed would have happen if one of Cho Sung Hui’s teachers had jumped in front of him and said “ Now Cho, you know there’s a school rule against bringing guns to class.” Do you think he’d have said ‘OOPS s I forgot. “ And put the gun down?

My obedience to your sign could cost me my life or serious bodily injury (real, measurable harm) for which I doubt very seriously you would compensate my survivors.

However, my disobedience to your sign actually affects you, how?

First of all, you misunderstood. I do not advocate any no guns allowed signs. I am as strongly against them as you are and none of my businesses would ever have had them displayed. My current business would of course not have such a sign since I sell firearms and train folks in the use of those firearms as well as teach the concealed carry classes for Oklahoma.

That said, it is still the right of any business owner to make the rules regarding his business premises as long as they do not contradict specific federal laws regarding civil rights. The constitution does not give you the right to violate rules a business may set up in the every day operation of his business. You may choose to carry your firearm in violation of his rules and in 95% of cases, you will be fine. And your disobedience of a business sign that prohibits firearms does not affect that business or the owner, but it is still his right to post that sign. That is my whole point.

Several have said that businesses do not have a right to post said signs, that outside of your home, you cannot control private property. That is just not correct.

 

[Rabbitcreekok]

There is a difference between private property and property that is open to the public. If property owner's rights prevail can I open a restaurant w/ a seperate section for "colored" folks?

Of course you are kidding about this, right? That is settled law, settled many years ago. There are certain civil rights that are set in stone by the SCOTUS.

Any property owner has to abide by the Federal, State, County, and local laws that apply to his property, whether is at his home or his place of business.

 

[MONTANA]

A favorite restaurant I go to once a week, maybe every other week just put up a sign by their door "No Gun's Allowed". This disappoints me in many areas but I am asking, how would you handle it?

I thought of writing the owner a letter, including things like "how do you plan to protect me and my family while we are there"? "You do realize that bad guy's won't read that sign right"? or other things. I don't want to come across TOO firm but firm enough.

So, write me a letter, rather write a letter to a place that would get our point across.

thanks.

Gimpy

I wouldn't say anything to a restaurant owner who posted a "no guns allowed" sign. Now if the sign said "we frisk every patron", I am afraid I would have to leave or speak-up. :sarcastic:

 

[JrFreak]

I don't say anything... I'll quietly carry my firearm and figure out what to say if I need to take it out to defend myself or my family. The government doesn't keep me from doing that... no way some damn restaurant is going to.

 

[Treo]

I am aware there's a legitimate ethics question here ( In colorado gun buster signs are legally meaningless unless they're posted on a government bldg) But the fact remains that my gun in my holster isn't effecting anyone else in the restaurant any more than my th:biggrin:ng is

 

[BC1]

Can I have a take-out menu please?

I abide by the owners request without question. If one doesn't like his policy they're free to go elsewhere.

On another note, NO ONE enters my home armed. Period. That's MY policy.

 

[Lakeland Man]

I am aware there's a legitimate ethics question here ( In colorado gun buster signs are legally meaningless unless they're posted on a government bldg) But the fact remains that my gun in my holster isn't effecting anyone else in the restaurant any more than my th:biggrin:ng is

Treo, you keep repeating that your gun doesn't affect anyone but you. However this isn't about who is affected and who isn't. Its about the rights of the property owner vs. the rights of the individual.

I worked for a time as the Director of Security at a shopping mall in Northern Virginia when I left Law Enforcement. The Mall Owner was very anti-gun, and posted signs at every entrance. When someone challenged the signs, they were told that it was the property owners right to forbid the carry of weapons on their premises. Many people would reply with "But this is a public mall!" I would have to inform them that it was private property upon which the owner has invited the public, but with this restriction. On a couple of occasions, the County Police were called and in every case, they affirmed the right of the property owner to forbid weapons on the premises.

At the time, I possessed a Virginia CC Permit, but could not bring my weapon to the Mall. I did not agree with the Mall policy, and because of that, I shopped elsewhere, even though I would have gotten a discount as a Mall employee. I also told the Mall Manager exactly why I shopped elsewhere. She didn't care about my few measly dollars.

I wish you luck in the fight. I hope you can convince the owner that allowing concealed carry is GOOD for business.

 

[Treo]

Treo, you keep repeating that your gun doesn't affect anyone but you. However this isn't about who is affected and who isn't. Its about the rights of the property owner vs. the rights of the individual.

His property rights end at my body

 

[Lakeland Man]

His property rights end at my body

No, they don't.

 

[Whistle]

His property rights end at my body

I seriously doubt your position would remain unchanged if the situation were reversed. The very rights that permit YOU to do what you like within reason, are the very same rights that you feel shouldn't be extended to those who disagree with you. Sound familiar?

I mentally argued with myself on this subject a while back, and came to the conclusion that if there's one thing I hate, it's a hypocrite. Therefore, I respect the rights of property owners to forbid firearms, regardless of my opinion that it's a damn fool thing to do. I may not always avoid those establishments, but when I can, I do.

 

[Grognard Gunny]

I seriously doubt your position would remain unchanged if the situation were reversed. The very rights that permit YOU to do what you like within reason, are the very same rights that you feel shouldn't be extended to those who disagree with you. Sound familiar?

I mentally argued with myself on this subject a while back, and came to the conclusion that if there's one thing I hate, it's a hypocrite. Therefore, I respect the rights of property owners to forbid firearms, regardless of my opinion that it's a damn fool thing to do. I may not always avoid those establishments, but when I can, I do.

.... and THAT is exactly what your line of thinking should have arrived at.

An armed thinking man..... you can care for my "six" anytime!

GG

 

[bob16066]

Treo, you keep repeating that your gun doesn't affect anyone but you. However this isn't about who is affected and who isn't. Its about the rights of the property owner vs. the rights of the individual.

I worked for a time as the Director of Security at a shopping mall in Northern Virginia when I left Law Enforcement. The Mall Owner was very anti-gun, and posted signs at every entrance. When someone challenged the signs, they were told that it was the property owners right to forbid the carry of weapons on their premises. Many people would reply with "But this is a public mall!" I would have to inform them that it was private property upon which the owner has invited the public, but with this restriction. On a couple of occasions, the County Police were called and in every case, they affirmed the right of the property owner to forbid weapons on the premises.

At the time, I possessed a Virginia CC Permit, but could not bring my weapon to the Mall. I did not agree with the Mall policy, and because of that, I shopped elsewhere, even though I would have gotten a discount as a Mall employee. I also told the Mall Manager exactly why I shopped elsewhere. She didn't care about my few measly dollars.

I wish you luck in the fight. I hope you can convince the owner that allowing concealed carry is GOOD for business.

Finally: someone who understands that Private Property Rights Trump 2nd Amendment Rights. Most people just don't understand. Without Private Property Rights I have no right to own the Pistol because the Pistol is Private Property.

I try to convince people by asking if I have a Right to take a dump on their front porch?

When they say no I then ask Why not?

I try to make them see that if they are Masters on their own Property then the Store Owner is the Master on His own Property.

It rarely convinces them because they just don't grasp the concept that "Public Property" only means you have an agreement assumed in advance: that the store owner wants your money and you want their goods and services and you are welcome (only as long as you behave yourself) in order to facilitate the transaction.

I carry everywhere I can legally. And don't give my money (knowingly) to people who don't share my views. So I honor the sign even if it doesn't carry the force of law.

 

[Treo]

I try to convince people by asking if I have a Right to take a dump on their front porch?

When they say no I then ask Why not?

There is a difference, if you take a dump on my front porch it affects me if I have a pistol in my pocket it has zero affect on you

 

[Lakeland Man]

There is a difference, if you take a dump on my front porch it affects me if I have a pistol in my pocket it has zero affect on you

Once again you say the same thing, over and over and over and over and over.........

It doesn't matter if it affects them or not. As owners of the property, they have the right to forbid you to carry a weapon on the property, concealed or not. End of argument! It doesn't matter whether you like it or not. If you knowingly and willingly carry a weapon onto property when you know the owner has forbidden it, you are breaking the law. That makes you a criminal! There is no grey. It's that black and white!

 

[Lakeland Man]

I found this after a very short google search.

"The gun-rights advocates argue that the issue presents a clash between private property rights and the rights of gun ownership.

But that’s not true; the constitutional right to keep and bear arms is solely a limitation on government power. Property rights are not. And individuals in the exercise of their property rights should be free to determine the conditions by which people enter their property."

The full text of this article can be found here:Link Removed