What would you say to a restaurant with a "No Gun's" sign?

[brolin1911a1]

THANK YOU EVERYONE!. I appreciate your input and keep 'em coming.

First, as a Christian, I value my ethics strongly and won't "ignore" a sign once I have seen one, or wear my gun against the business owners wishes. That IS trespassing.

True. That's an ethical attitude that should be shared by more CCW people. His property, it's his right to limit the activity on said property and your right and my right to not visit there if we disagree with his/her rules.

THIS restaurant I frequent and they just put the sign up next to the door. Eye level, bright sign hard to miss. I have decided to contact the owner by phone. I called today and he is out until Monday. He has my number and will call me back (Maybe) When he does, I will talk to him and use my script from what you have all said here, and then tell him about the No Gun's = No Money and add No Gun's = no protection. I will open by telling him I frequent his restaurant and noticed his new sign, then say "what are you doing to protect me and my family"? and then take it from there.

I will let you all know what happens after I get THE call.

You might begin by asking why the sign has gone up now, after all the problem-free time that passed before he put it up. He may have what seems to him to be a good reason. In the case of the grocery store I mentioned in my earlier post, some possibly half-drunk jerk open carrying had come in to the store one evening and begun harassing the elderly lady at the checkout lane. The woman had been frightened and store management had also been concerned but were afraid to confront the man because he was armed. So they put up the sign.

I pointed out to him that clods like that guy wouldn't have obeyed his sign anyway. In fact, it would probably have just made the guy more beligerent. In the meantime, the sign would have discouraged anyone who might have possibly provided help/backup in case the guy had gotten violent from entering the store. Put that way, he realized that the sign was counterproductive.

My point is that there is probably a perceived reason whether valid or not for that sign going up at this point in time. It might be good to learn what that is so that you can address it and explain why said sign is not a solution and may only add to any problems.

 

[motor]

No guns

Many places have these signs, a sign of far left thinking. Post a sign, make a law, paint lines, etc..They think criminals will obey these signs. Personally I carry just about everywhere sign or no sign. In some states like SC it is against the law to carry into a restaurant that serves alcohol even if you aren't drinking. The Huddle House chain has "no concealed weapons" signs at all their stores. Again I carry into them and keep my mouth shut.

I don't think writing these people letters will help a thing. They think like sheep. It's the socialist/marxist/communist movement that is slowly eating away at out freedom.

Just my .02

 

[fied1k]

And then call you to bail him out and pay his legal fees when he's arrested for trespassing with a firearm?

It depends on your state law. In Missouri if you are caught with a concealed weapon with a CCW permit, the most they can do is ask you to leave. If you don't leave and the police come, its a $100 fine.

Missouri Statute

Carrying of a concealed firearm in a location specified in subdivisions (1) to (17) of subsection 1 of this section by any individual who holds a concealed carry endorsement issued pursuant to sections 571.101 to 571.121 shall not be a criminal act but may subject the person to denial to the premises or removal from the premises. If such person refuses to leave the premises and a peace officer is summoned, such person may be issued a citation for an amount not to exceed one hundred dollars for the first offense

 

[Treo]

I absolutely respect the right of a home owner to dictate what is and isn't acceptable on their property.

A business that is open to the public has no right to override my right to life and the defense there of.

As a responsible gun owner I conduct my business in public daily, with no one the wiser that I am armed.

Please tell me how the mere posession of a firearm by a responsible gun owner on the premises of businees violates the owner's property rights?

 

[krmgator]

If there is no metal detector and no security checking patrons at the door, I'd ignore the sign. Why make a big fuss about a policy that's not being enforced.

I have to say; been there, done that. Will do it again.

 

[Trolljegeren]

In my state I can legally ignore the 'ban' signs. Only after any of the employees of the establishment tells me to leave, I must leave or face trespassing charges.

That is why I concealed carry. I do avoid places where I'm not allowed to carry; schools and feds.

In addition, I love to write a letter to some establishments that ban guns. For example, I write a letter to Toys R Us every year informing what the total tally is since I quit buying any toys from them years back ($7,842 and change).

 

[Edsworld]

Most of these places put up these sign, hoping the BGs will think there is a metal detector or something and not enter. Kind of like the camera signs, but no cameras or fake cameras.

 

[billv]

I absolutely respect the right of a home owner to dictate what is and isn't acceptable on their property.

A business that is open to the public has no right to override my right to life and the defense there of.

As a responsible gun owner I conduct my business in public daily, with no one the wiser that I am armed.

Please tell me how the mere posession of a firearm by a responsible gun owner on the premises of businees violates the owner's property rights?

+1 on that.

A person's home is his castle and he can do what he wants with it. The owner invites who he wants on his property and is (should be) wary of those not invited.

But business/commercial property isn't a castle. The public is generally invited onto the property, and the more that come the better for the business owner. But usually with little regard to their security, if any. I avoid doing business with them, if at all possible.

 

[britt]

well I like desert dude letter it said it all and for some states you can leave the gun in your car in the parking lot if the place has been posted but I dont leave my guns in the car so i would eat some place that I CAN KEEP MY GUNS ON ME YOU ALL HAVE A GOOD DAY

 

[varmonter]

Most of these places put up these sign, hoping the BGs will think there is a metal detector or something and not enter. Kind of like the camera signs, but no cameras or fake cameras.

Has Anyone ever known a store or restaurant to put a metal detector in.

This seems logistically a nightmare .Would they than frisk everyone who comes in with a set of keys? Would there be restaurant security? Guess i just don't see this happening.It would not only prevent ccw but would scare away sheeple patrons as well.

 

[Anubis]

I wouldn't say anything or write anything.

Me too. Management that puts up an anti-gun sign demonstrates a lack of ability for critical thought, therefore they cannot be persuaded by any logical argument.

My definition of a good restaurant includes having no anti-gun policies. So I would simply vote with my feet.

 

[Treo]

Me too. Management that puts up an anti-gun sign demonstrates a lack of ability for critical thought, therefore they cannot be persuaded by any logical argument.

My definition of a good restaurant includes having no anti-gun policies. So I would simple vote with my feet.

Anubis, dude! Long time no see

 

[brolin1911a1]

Me too. Management that puts up an anti-gun sign demonstrates a lack of ability for critical thought, therefore they cannot be persuaded by any logical argument.

My definition of a good restaurant includes having no anti-gun policies. So I would simple vote with my feet.

I wouldn't go so far as to say that they've demonstrated an inability to think rationally. Perhaps they've just never been introduced to a rational counter viewpoint that encouraged them to think rationally. I know of several property owners who have, upon presentation of a calm, rational, counter viewpoint removed their signs.

But, so long as the sign remains, common courtesy on OUR part (we do want to retain the moral high ground, no?) would dictate that we honor their wishes by taking our trade elsewhere. Other than the smallest, most remote one-horse towns there is always a competitor who will happily welcome us and take our money. Go there after politely and with appropriate regrets, letting he proprietor with the NO GUNS sign know that you'll really miss trading at his establishment and hope he'll change his mind.

But always remember, it's his property and his right to set the conditions under which you are welcome there.

 

[Desert Dude]

You spoke of your "right" to carry. What I'm saying is that on private property that "right" does not necessarily exist. Or, rather is not recognized.

Using language like "I won't shop here because you don't respect my 2nd Amendment right," or "I will not spend money here because you are infringing on my rights" may make things worse because it gives the impression that your rights are more important than those of the private property owner, when quite frankly they're not. At least not according to the law.

If a private property owner posts a "no guns" sign then they are not infringing on your rights. They are exercising theirs.

All I'm saying it that it may be better to stick to the facts about why "gun free zones" are a fallacy and to highlight the virtues of concealed carry licensees. Rather that spewing rhetoric about *your rights* vs. their rights. It will only make you and everyone else look bad.

Rocket Boy,


Please do not imply that your " "'s above are from me. Please review my three posts on this subject I have placed below. If you are going to quote someone I'd make sure it was a quote.


---------------------------------------------------------
1st post

Dear Mr. XxXxX

My family, friends and I have enjoyed eating at your fine establishment for the last XxXx years. We have always found XxXxX a place where we could relax and enjoy a great meal.

Yesterday, while entering XxXxX I noticed a new sign indicating you no longer wish your law abiding patrons to enter your establishment while carrying a firearm. This troubled me greatly for now my family, friends and I will have to select another restaurant. We can no longer feel relaxed at XxXxX since we cannot protect ourselves.

By the way, you do understand that by posting that sign you have told all the criminals that no one in XxXxX can defend themselves against robbery and or murder. You have essentially told them you and your restaurant is defenseless.

Thanks for your time.

Joe Blow

----------------------------------------------------

2nd post


This has been an interesting thread.

Since I wish my rights to be observed I won't enter a business that is posted No Guns. As I stated in my other post, I would write a letter to the owner, but would not go in.

I have yet to see a single posting in California. I do travel quite a bit but still, never seen one here. I have seen them in Az and Tx. Usually at resturants. I did not go in.

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3rd post



I think you read something into my post that just isn' there Rocket Boy. So I guess I'll state it a bit clearer.

It's his right to post the sign and my right to go some place else. I'd just let him know in a nice way why I no longer spend my money in his place.

Nothing more, nothing less.

 

[Edsworld]

Has Anyone ever known a store or restaurant to put a metal detector in.

This seems logistically a nightmare .Would they than frisk everyone who comes in with a set of keys? Would there be restaurant security? Guess i just don't see this happening.It would not only prevent ccw but would scare away sheeple patrons as well.

Don't say that to loud. 30yr ago we said that about cameras.

They are hoping the BGs are stupid, is what I am saying.

 

[rforgy]

Good bye

 

[Rabbitcreekok]

I absolutely respect the right of a home owner to dictate what is and isn't acceptable on their property.

A business that is open to the public has no right to override my right to life and the defense there of.

As a responsible gun owner I conduct my business in public daily, with no one the wiser that I am armed.

Please tell me how the mere posession of a firearm by a responsible gun owner on the premises of businees violates the owner's property rights?

+1 on that.

A person's home is his castle and he can do what he wants with it. The owner invites who he wants on his property and is (should be) wary of those not invited.

But business/commercial property isn't a castle. The public is generally invited onto the property, and the more that come the better for the business owner. But usually with little regard to their security, if any. I avoid doing business with them, if at all possible.

Any business owner has the right to restrict his customers in any way he pleases. It is his business and he owns it. Now it may not be in his best interests to restrict the public from carrying firearms on his premises, but he can do so. I have thrown folks out of my businesses before and told them to never return, and it was my right to do so.

He can restrict his customers in any way as long as he does not violate the specific restrictions as determined by the SCOTUS, such as race, religion, sex etc.

A business owner can say that no one in shorts can come into his business. He has that right, may not make good sense, but he has that right.

Our response can be to exercise our right to not patronize his business.

If the sign says no guns, then just don't go there. No one is making you go there. If your concern is about protection yourself and your family by carrying a firearm, don't enter businesses that restrict your carrying there. Personally, I would not want to go into such a restricted environment anyway.

JMHO

 

[Treo]

Any business owner has the right to restrict his customers in any way he pleases. It is his business and he owns it. Now it may not be in his best interests to restrict the public from carrying firearms on his premises, but he can do so. I have thrown folks out of my businesses before and told them to never return, and it was my right to do so.

He can restrict his customers in any way as long as he does not violate the specific restrictions as determined by the SCOTUS, such as race, religion, sex etc.

A business owner can say that no one in shorts can come into his business. He has that right, may not make good sense, but he has that right.

Our response can be to exercise our right to not patronize his business.

If the sign says no guns, then just don't go there. No one is making you go there. If your concern is about protection yourself and your family by carrying a firearm, don't enter businesses that restrict your carrying there. Personally, I would not want to go into such a restricted environment anyway.

JMHO

If I’m carrying a concealed weapon it affects no one but me. No one else is even going to know unless I have to draw. A business owner has the right to run his business as he sees fit but not to the point that he's telling me I can't do something that has no effect on anyone else in the establishment.


If I enter your place of business with my Firearm it will remain in its holster on my hip unless needed. My mere possession of a firearm does not infringe on your right to life or liberty, It will not affect your ability to make money that day, and It will not drive your customers away (I never advocated the open display of a firearm in a Criminal Protection Zone).

The rule (and any such like it) is illogical because the criminals aren’t going to follow it anyway. What do you supposed would have happen if one of Cho Sung Hui’s teachers had jumped in front of him and said “ Now Cho, you know there’s a school rule against bringing guns to class.” Do you think he’d have said ‘OOPS s I forgot. “ And put the gun down?

My obedience to your sign could cost me my life or serious bodily injury (real, measurable harm) for which I doubt very seriously you would compensate my survivors.

However, my disobedience to your sign actually affects you, how?

 

[rocketboy]

but educating ignorant people about legal carry is the most important in my opinion.

An odd statement coming from someone who has advocated, and admitted to breaking the law.

 

[rocketboy]

Rocket Boy,


Please do not imply that your " "'s above are from me. Please review my three posts on this subject I have placed below. If you are going to quote someone I'd make sure it was a quote.


---------------------------------------------------------
1st post

Dear Mr. XxXxX

My family, friends and I have enjoyed eating at your fine establishment for the last XxXx years. We have always found XxXxX a place where we could relax and enjoy a great meal.

Yesterday, while entering XxXxX I noticed a new sign indicating you no longer wish your law abiding patrons to enter your establishment while carrying a firearm. This troubled me greatly for now my family, friends and I will have to select another restaurant. We can no longer feel relaxed at XxXxX since we cannot protect ourselves.

By the way, you do understand that by posting that sign you have told all the criminals that no one in XxXxX can defend themselves against robbery and or murder. You have essentially told them you and your restaurant is defenseless.

Thanks for your time.

Joe Blow

----------------------------------------------------

2nd post


This has been an interesting thread.

Since I wish my rights to be observed I won't enter a business that is posted No Guns. As I stated in my other post, I would write a letter to the owner, but would not go in.

I have yet to see a single posting in California. I do travel quite a bit but still, never seen one here. I have seen them in Az and Tx. Usually at resturants. I did not go in.

----------------------------------------------
3rd post



I think you read something into my post that just isn' there Rocket Boy. So I guess I'll state it a bit clearer.

It's his right to post the sign and my right to go some place else. I'd just let him know in a nice way why I no longer spend my money in his place.

Nothing more, nothing less.

The quotes were not to quote you specifically but rather to illustrate the way you and others here were talking. But since you asked:

"Since I wish my rights to be observed..."

You used the *my rights* rhetoric I was talking about. Again, on private property *your rights* are not necessarily the same as they are on public property.