Nightmare45
NRA LIFE MEMBER
Private property owner has ability to restrict entry to the property for any reason he/she wishes, I have the right not to shop.
What would you say to a restaurant with a "No Gun's" sign?
- Thread starter Daven
- Start date
Lakeland Man
New member
You are mis-stating this example. If you "Own" the street, you can set a limit on it, but LEO has no authority to enforce it, as they only enforce the speed limit on public streets or on streets that have an agreement with the governing body (i.e. city, town, county, etc). The point is that whether you get caught or not, if you knowingly violate the property owners wishes, its still wrong. Its already written into law that carrying a weapon onto private in defiance of the property owners wishes is a crime.
I will stipulate that I don't know if this is the case in every state. Even if it is not, it's pretty damn rude and inconsiderate of the property owners wishes to do so. I still say that if they don't want you to carry on their property, don't spend your money there until you or someone changes the owners mind about carry.
Ruger357SP101
Banned
Ohio law says Im NOT permitted to enter a posted business.
If youre in Ohio and a CHL holder and dont know that fact I suggest you RE take your classes.
page 17 of the AGs handbook;
Easy enough?
Pretty scary if you DIDNT know that much seeing that you were REQUIRED to study that book in order to even get your CHL here in Ohio.
I can make a sign that says 'No Guns' and you would be breaking the law to enter my house or property with a gun here.
No, NOT if you were FOREWARNED that you were not allowed to bring a gun.
Try it sometime.
Tell ya what....Im inviting you to my house....but Im telling you beforehand you CANT come armed.
Do it anyway and lets see if I call the cops if you just blow it off or not.
Ohio law is not the same as other states where you might be allowed to ignore gunbuster signs and other "notice" that carrying is prohibited.
comparing ignoring one of two rules.
come up with ridiculous examples much?
YOU dont OWN the street, so YOUR signs then are irrelevant.
In YOUR house or property though, YOUR word is law.
That you seem to be against such a concept makes me wonder.
B2Tall
Stirrer of the Pot
This may surprise some people on this board but I would ignore the sign. I have in the past and will again in the future. In Florida (and most other states I believe) I'm not committing a crime unless I'm asked to leave and then refuse. Then I'm tresspassing. I wouldn't refuse. If they saw my gun (that's a misdameanor) and asked me to leave, I'd comply.
There is no law against carrying on private property....only for refusing to leave when told to.
There is no law against carrying on private property....only for refusing to leave when told to.
It appears that in Ohio it is a misdemeanor to ignore a no-carry sign.
My attitude isn't the problem. The problem is that: your lack of respect for the rights of others is giving the rest of us firearm owners a bad name.
The type of entry to your private property is irrelevant to your private property rights.
You can bar someone from your house for no other reason than it is private property. As can the Merchant.
I'm an NRA Life Member and a Constitutionalist that carries a pistol and a copy of the Constitution everywhere I legally can (like you) except I respect private property rights and the wishes of others on their property even if I disagree and think they are stupid.
As far as "future tense" that's why we carry pistols in the first place. Because of what could happen if all the stars align a certain way.
I carry my .45 on my hip not just because the law says I can; but because of what might happen in that "future tense." It's all about that "future tense." There are thousands of possibilities. I don't pretend to know all of them.
The truth (and the point I was trying to make by all the hypothetical "future tense" examples ) is that: neither of us can truthfully state that: our pistol will never ever injure the owner's prized beenie baby collection or one of the owners customers by an accidental discharge or by having a criminal disarm us and use our pistol for harm rather than for good.
Nor can the owner truthfully state that their customers will be safe if he bans law abiding pistols from his property; thereby creating a "gun free zone".
He has to make the choice as to which he fears most. A Plaxico Burris accidentally shooting one of his customers. OR. An armed criminal conducting live target practice in his "gun free zone."
So. I honour his wishes and go someplace else.
Honestly: why would I want to give my Hard Earned Cashy Money to this merchant so he can Donate it to The Brady Anti Gun Rights Campaign...
Beau
I was never here.
Sucks to live in OH.
I guess I do have a lack of respect for the rights of others if you want to call it that. I will completely ignore those types of signs if I can not avoid going into that business. I will cover up but I will not remove my weapon. This is usually moot because in general I will not spend money at a place that has these signs.
I agree with others that when a business is open to the general public they get just that, the public. If they want to mandate certain rules then they can make entry into their business by membership only. Then they can make whatever rules they want.
How many of you have been into a mall? If you have you walked by a sign listing at least 20 different behaviors that are not allowed in the mall. I would bet money that everyone here has broken at least one of the rules posted.
My point is that the posting of rules is more of a request to the general public on how to behave in that business. However, entry into the premises is not conditional on the general publics acceptance of those rules (unless your unfortunate enough to live in OH).
Ruger357SP101
Banned
Ruger357SP101
Banned
AMEN !
These damned Rambos are making the whole lot of us look like nuts who only follow the rules we think we can get away with and to hell with the ones we dont want to follow.
Yeah..lets let the VOTING public see how we DISREGARD the rights of others and see where that gets us.
The irony from some on this board is astounding, isnt it?
They demand THEIR rights, whine like little girls if I waive my rights when I feel its justified to do so, then they turn around and completely trample over someone elses RIGHTs on their own property.
Maybe these are the guys who ignore "No Trespassing' signage as well and just make themselves at home on other folks land even though signs are everywhere telling them to keep out.
It would serve them right to have their rights violated like they violate the rights of others.
Absolutely AGREE !
I cant whine a moan like a spanked child about MY rights being violated then go violate someone elses.
It doesnt matter if I agree or not. Lots of folks dont agree that we have a right to carry guns. What matters is ONLY that we are not infringing on the property owners RIGHTS as WE dont want anyone to trample on OURS.
But frankly Ive noticed a few posters on this forum who act like spoiled selfish children.
They want what they want, but they have zero consideration for anyone else.
I call that type antisocial.
.
Ruger357SP101
Banned
And others here are simply WRONG.
It is STILL private property, whether you like it or not, and businesses have the right to refuse service to anyone they want.
If you dont like it, get a lawyer and sue.
ONE mall here in town isnt posted with GB signs.
So we went in and shopped.
As Im leaving I see about 15 'rules' on the BACK of the advertisement sign we saw coming in.
I read it and the last line said basically 'no guns'.
Ive never gone back.
If they say no guns, the rules are 'no guns'...even if the law of your state doesnt enforce it as law you are STILL trampling on the business owners RIGHT to not serve anyone he doesnt want to serve. Youre just being deceptive about it since he doesnt know you have a gun.
Im sorry people but when you give the ok to ignore someone elses RIGHTS on their private property your simply in the wrong.
'OPEN TO the public' does not = 'public property' or that the owner cant say who can and who cant come in.
Wrong.
If a property owner has a sign that says' NO TRESPASSING' it means just that....ZERO trespassing is allowed.
It is the RIGHT of the property owner to require that just as it is his right to also allow anyone to come on his land.
When you or I go against his rules we are VIOLATING his RIGHTS, which makes us a damned hypocrite when we whine about OUR rights being stepped on.
Punch
New member
Same in Nebraska. You may no longer have a permit after you are arrested for a "gun related" misdemeanor in this state.
Ruger357SP101
Banned
Which means that, knowing the property owner doesnt want guns on his property, you ignored that thereby violating HIS rights so you could exercise yours.
How some here cant see the hypocrisy in demanding their rights not be violated while violating someone elses is absolutely amazing.
But then, Ive been seeing this same immature attitude from gun packers for a few years now...so its nothing new.
Just dont be too pissed off when those voting business owners get some law passed to take away your rights because you kept trampling on theirs.
As gun owners its probably best that we portray ourselves as WANTING to obey the rules.
But hey, thats just me, I guess.
I suppose Im just an idiot who LIKES the idea of NON gun owners having respect for me so they dont feel like they have to go join the Brady clan to get my rights taken away.
Treo
Bullet Proof
You say that like it's some huge revelation :biggrin:
Ruger357SP101
Banned
No, I say it like it PISSES me off as a gun owner and CCW'er who is made to look bad because of puke gun packers who whine about their rights being infringed while they infringe on the rights of others.
And some here dont comprehend why I dont care if YOUR rights get infringed?
As I have said...some of you get just what you deserve at traffic stops...and in life in general...when YOUR rights get trampled on.
Ruger357SP101
Banned
What I find interesting here on this forum is that its pretty typical of most gun forums.
A long list of good, law abiding, common sense gun packers....and a very small group of extremist nutcases plotting their revenge on law enforcement who might just happen to piss them off during a traffic stop.
Oddly enough these are the same nuts who, while they whine about THEIR rights not being infringed upon, are completely willing to disregard the rights of others as they see fit.
This isnt about rights with this type, and it certainly isnt about self defense.
Its about their paranoid Rambo rhetoric where they are the 'freedom fighters' trying to save the USA from phantoms and ghosts.
These are the mutants who make the REST of us look bad.
They are the ones who give the BradyNuts ammunition to use against us when they talk about using their guns against our LEOs.
Im half expecting them to say they think they should be allowed to hunt squirrels with a machine gun because its their 'constitutional right'. :wacko:
A long list of good, law abiding, common sense gun packers....and a very small group of extremist nutcases plotting their revenge on law enforcement who might just happen to piss them off during a traffic stop.
Oddly enough these are the same nuts who, while they whine about THEIR rights not being infringed upon, are completely willing to disregard the rights of others as they see fit.
This isnt about rights with this type, and it certainly isnt about self defense.
Its about their paranoid Rambo rhetoric where they are the 'freedom fighters' trying to save the USA from phantoms and ghosts.
These are the mutants who make the REST of us look bad.
They are the ones who give the BradyNuts ammunition to use against us when they talk about using their guns against our LEOs.
Im half expecting them to say they think they should be allowed to hunt squirrels with a machine gun because its their 'constitutional right'. :wacko:
Beau
I was never here.
Where does it say that breaking a rule of a business owner is violating their rights? I understand that a business owner can refuse service to a person that breaks their rules and I agree with it. If I am caught breaking a rule of a business I'll leave when asked and not return. I don't think I violated their rights though.
Have you ever cussed in a business? A lot of places have a rule against profanity. Oh my gosh you violated their rights! Not. What if they didn't hear you cuss. Did you still "violate their rights"?
Have you ever cussed in a business? A lot of places have a rule against profanity. Oh my gosh you violated their rights! Not. What if they didn't hear you cuss. Did you still "violate their rights"?
Ruger357SP101
Banned
Is this crap the best you people can come up with?
Ive debated teenagers who seemed brighter.
So by your asinine reasoning if someone walks in YOUR front door against YOUR wishes and instruction then YOUR rights havent been violated?
yeah...right.
If that happened youd be in here bitching like a spanked child how youd been violated and you know it.
And youd be right to do so.
The PROPERTY OWNER has the RIGHT to demand that you NOT carry a damned gun onto the property THEY lease or own.
Yes, you VIOLATE their rights on their property by bringing your gun anyway.
If it werent a violating of any sort then please tell us why even the more easy going states say you are trespassing once youve been asked to leave????
If it WERENT any sort of violation then there would be ZERO recourse for your ignoring their request.
Easy enough?
OR do I need to get my 5 year old grandson and a crayon to help you figure all this out?
There was a sign that asked you NOT to enter to begin with..which you clearly would have IGNORED. And you expect us to believe you have some decency about you that would make you honor a VERBAL request now?
Sorry, not buying it.
Youre a rule breaker to the core.
*IF* you and a couple others here were decent, law abiding, rule obeying American citizens with any amount of integrity and honor about you, youd have HONORED the wishes of the business owner OR private property owner who had a NO GUNS sign posted and theyd not have had to verbally ask you to leave !
Well of course YOU dont...YOU arent the one being violated.
Your just the thug who doesnt want anyone treading on HIM while he doesnt give a rats ass who HE trespasses against.
For one thing youre doing just what I said and exaggerating in a vain effort to justify your complete DISREGARD for the rights of others.
This is about GUNS...you know...LETHAL WEAPONS, not four letter words.
Secondly...If I saw such a sign I wouldnt be so childish as to go against the sign.....*IF* I was aware of it.
Yes, it would be violating that persons RIGHT to peace of mind on THEIR DAMNED PROPERTY !
Now, why dont you be forthright about this particular point and let us in on the little stunt you think youre about to pull.
