What if you saw a Law Enforcement Officer in Trouble?

[S&WM&P40]

I think it is very sad that society has come to distrust the police so much, simply because of the actions of a few bad cops. And yes, I maintain that it is a few. There are over 800,00 law enforcement officers in the united states. I agree that criminals deserve arrest, prosecution, and imprisonment whether they wear a badge or not.

As for myself, I feel that I was a good cop. I tried to enforce and uphold the law evenly, and I did what I could to prevent crime and help the community around me. I wasn't dishonest. I didn't beat innocent victims. I didn't steal from people. I didn't abuse my authority. But, I was still mistrusted by many people, and not just the criminal element. However, I would still do whatever I could to help them. If it were me in trouble and you simply walked by without helping, the human being within me would be calling you every name in the book. The police officer in me would still do my job to help you should the need arise.

People like those of you who would turn a blind eye make me sick.

Would you have turned in any of your fellow "Brothers in Blue" if you found out they had/are commiting unlawful acts? Or would you have coved for them?

In October, and again in December 1971, Serpico testified before the Knapp Commission:[6]

“ Through my appearance here today... I hope that police officers in the future will not experience the same frustration and anxiety that I was subjected to for the past five years at the hands of my superiors because of my attempt to report corruption... We create an atmosphere in which the honest officer fears the dishonest officer, and not the other way around... The problem is that the atmosphere does not yet exist in which honest police officers can act without fear of ridicule or reprisal from fellow officers.

Said fact of the matter is even in todays day and age the honest officer still fears the dishonest officer.

It's one thing to say you would stand and uphold the law, it's another to walk the walk and do it.

Any officer who would turn a blindeye, or take part in covering up the corrupt acts of other officers MAKE ME SICK! In my mind they are just as dirty as the officer/officers comitting the corrupt acts.

 

[Hamilton Felix]

It's no longer a friendly world out there. I am SO glad my buddy pulled the plug on King County about a year ago (after 30 years). The LEO serves masters - politicians and prosecutors. Today, many LEO's are not allowed to be Peace Officers. They are primarily Revenue Collectors and "Enforcers" who keep the serfs in line. More and more agencies seek to recruit "combat soldiers" who will follow any orders. It may be the greedy politicians who deserve society's wrath, but it is the uniformed LEO who is the point of contact with the public, and is the most visible symbol of oppression. Spend some time thinking about how the average citizen is mostly likely to interact with Police. Then try telling me you expect everyone to like Police. Humans don't work that way.

The other day, I saw a State Trooper helping a lady change a tire. It's a very rare sight, compared to radar ambushes and the forcible transfer of assets from the productive class to the Ruling Class (the primary reason for the Trooper's existence), but it still happens. It cheered me - momentarily.

As I've already said, if you mix into a conflict involving what appears to be a LEO, you stand to lose everything you have and ever will have (not to mention your life). If you make a mistake, miss a call or signal, that law enforcement agency WILL hang you out to dry.

I stand by my choice: I will help a PERSON that I personally know to be a Good Guy. That's all. How he's dressed does not matter. My family is of paramount importance. The life of one more Revenue Collector is less important.

 

[FN1910]

As you know from your studies law enforcement has the obligation to enforce two types of laws, in latin (I hope I am spelling correctly) they are Mala In Se and Mala Prohibita. Mala In Se are those crimes that are evil in themselves such as murder and rape, Mala Prohibilta are those items like speeding and being drunk and disorderly.

Some of the guys out on the street (officers) would really prefer to be eating donuts and drinking coffee instead of fighting with someone who has broken a law.

Those of us who have remained in law enforcement (Jan of 1963 for myself) have performed many necessary tasks in order to make society safe for everyone. I am sorry for the families of the officers who have died on duty trying to arrest someone and no one would help them.

Citizens are actually walking past women being assaulted and older people are being beat up and robbed. No one is helping them.

Society is what you make it.

Personally I am a bible toting pistol carrying person, should you want a bible to read please go to any church and I am sure they will give you one or you can go to the library and read it there.

Your thoughts

dnftt = Do Not Feed The Trolls.

 

[Lakeland Man]

Would you have turned in any of your fellow "Brothers in Blue" if you found out they had/are commiting unlawful acts? Or would you have coved for them?


Said fact of the matter is even in todays day and age the honest officer still fears the dishonest officer.

It's one thing to say you would stand and uphold the law, it's another to walk the walk and do it.

Any officer who would turn a blindeye, or take part in covering up the corrupt acts of other officers MAKE ME SICK! In my mind they are just as dirty as the officer/officers comitting the corrupt acts.

I like to think that I would have turned in a wrongdoing officer. Dirty cops make me sick and they're a blight on the entire profession. I was never in a position to see any police wrongdoing during my time, so I'll never know. But I do have a code of ethics that I live by. Allowing someone to get away with abusing their position isn't part of that code.

As for "walking the talk", I resent the implication that I didn't. Like I said, I feel I was good and honest and did my job well, and to the best of my ability. I wrote tickets when needed, and I didn't overdo it. Consequently, I didn't receive promotions and accolades like some of my peers. I was one of those plain old "good honest cops" that everybody seems to forget about.

 

[S&WM&P40]

I like to think that I would have turned in a wrongdoing officer. Dirty cops make me sick and they're a blight on the entire profession. I was never in a position to see any police wrongdoing during my time, so I'll never know. But I do have a code of ethics that I live by. Allowing someone to get away with abusing their position isn't part of that code.

As for "walking the talk", I resent the implication that I didn't. Like I said, I feel I was good and honest and did my job well, and to the best of my ability. I wrote tickets when needed, and I didn't overdo it. Consequently, I didn't receive promotions and accolades like some of my peers. I was one of those plain old "good honest cops" that everybody seems to forget about.

I think you misunderstood what I was saying. What I mean by "It's one thing to say you would stand and uphold the law, it's another to walk the walk and do it." Is as you did in your above reply, it's one thing to say/think you would turn in a "dirty badge" it's another to follow through with it. Knowing full well your life would be on the line. Sometimes it's not so cut and dry as to what police corruption is.

If a officer wrote a ticket to someone for doing a 50 in a in a 35MPH zone, when the person was really only doing 36-40MPH. Would you report such an officer? Or because it's such a little thing like a ticket would you let it slide? At what point would you or any "good officer" draw the line in the sand that if crossed they would report? Payoffs? Drug dealing? Running protection for drug shipments?Murder for hire? The list is endless. The point is it always starts with a little thing, that fellow officers let slide.

I would love to become a IA officer and start cleaning house!! If more departments cracked down and were allowed to cut lose the dead weight. Only the good officers would remain, "Cream rises to the top".

Sadly the police unions keep even the bad officers with a gun and badge. This huge distrust for law enforcement didn't just spring up over night.

 

[Lakeland Man]

I think you misunderstood what I was saying. What I mean by "It's one thing to say you would stand and uphold the law, it's another to walk the walk and do it." Is as you did in your above reply, it's one thing to say/think you would turn in a "dirty badge" it's another to follow through with it. Knowing full well your life would be on the line. Sometimes it's not so cut and dry as to what police corruption is.

If no offense was intended then I apologize for my outburst. I tend to be sensitive about that subject.

If a officer wrote a ticket to someone for doing a 50 in a in a 35MPH zone, when the person was really only doing 36-40MPH. Would you report such an officer? Or because it's such a little thing like a ticket would you let it slide? At what point would you or any "good officer" draw the line in the sand that if crossed they would report? Payoffs? Drug dealing? Running protection for drug shipments?Murder for hire? The list is endless. The point is it always starts with a little thing, that fellow officers let slide.

That's an interesting question. I had occasion to see something like this only once. An officer I was backing up during a speeding traffic stop had gotten very pissed at the speeder because of the guys attitude. The officer said that he wished he could write the guy for a much faster speed and cost the speeder a larger fine. However, before I could say anything to him about that, he said that he couldn't do that because the radar as well as his radio transmissions wouldn't allow that. He was speaking out of anger and frustration. He was basically a good guy who was frustrated because he was only doing his job. (By the way, he left law enforcement about a year after that. He just couldn't handle the abuse that gets heaped upon the police on a daily basis by the general public.)

I would love to become a IA officer and start cleaning house!! If more departments cracked down and were allowed to cut lose the dead weight. Only the good officers would remain, "Cream rises to the top".

Sadly the police unions keep even the bad officers with a gun and badge. This huge distrust for law enforcement didn't just spring up over night.

I have never been a fan of unions of any kind, and think that the bad officers deserve to be fired (and charged if it applies). Internal Affairs departments are a very interesting invention. A lot of what people know about them comes from TV and movies. Most of the time, they do nothing to "root out" police wrongdoing, and instead they investigate complaints from the public about abuses of police power and authority.

 

[S&WM&P40]

If no offense was intended then I apologize for my outburst. I tend to be sensitive about that subject.



That's an interesting question. I had occasion to see something like this only once. An officer I was backing up during a speeding traffic stop had gotten very pissed at the speeder because of the guys attitude. The officer said that he wished he could write the guy for a much faster speed and cost the speeder a larger fine. However, before I could say anything to him about that, he said that he couldn't do that because the radar as well as his radio transmissions wouldn't allow that. He was speaking out of anger and frustration. He was basically a good guy who was frustrated because he was only doing his job. (By the way, he left law enforcement about a year after that. He just couldn't handle the abuse that gets heaped upon the police on a daily basis by the general public.)



I have never been a fan of unions of any kind, and think that the bad officers deserve to be fired (and charged if it applies). Internal Affairs departments are a very interesting invention. A lot of what people know about them comes from TV and movies. Most of the time, they do nothing to "root out" police wrongdoing, and instead they investigate complaints from the public about abuses of police power and authority.

No, problem. Don't get me wrong I'm in no way trying to say IA does not have it's share of dirty cops because it does. Part of me wishes I was alive back in the days that everyone helped everyone and left their doors unlocked. Police would walk a beat and get to know just about everyone by name. Now most departments are so disconnected from the public because they drive around in squad cars.

Time machine anyone??

 

[Scouse]

I have in the past, working Armed Security, in Uniform, marked Jeep. Basic presence, it did work, once in Canada (Ex Canadian Citizen) Knelt on a leg, held a wrist, when the troops arrived, I was given the blessing "The guy in the Suit is helping me"

And a while back, in Blackpool England, 1953? I was 18 YOA. Local, unarmed Police Officer, trying to clear 4 young men out of an enclosed, Sunday closed, shop entrance, they jumped him, as we were passing! It was a free fight, so my mate and I joined in!

We were lucky (We were winning) when a van load of Cops arrived, our Cop said "The two in the jackets were helping me!" otherwise we could have come unstuck. To answer the post.

Now I am armed myself, normally every where I am, I am with my Wife, she is paramount in my book. But if on my own, and as a Volunteer with the Sheriffs Office (non sworn old guy) first call 911, respond as able, and appropriate.

 

[Hamilton Felix]

Pick up a wounded cop's gun and face charges. Yeah, that makes me want to help.

Link Removed

The agent, who is not licensed to carry a gun, could face charges, sources said.

Never forget, the worst "crime" is "doing the job the cops think is theirs."

 

[B2Tall]

Pick up a wounded cop's gun and face charges. Yeah, that makes me want to help.

Link Removed


Never forget, the worst "crime" is "doing the job the cops think is theirs."

An interesting story but I'm not sure if it applies here. The man in question did more than just help the officer in trouble. He chased the perps down the street, shooting at them. That's what he might get in trouble for. Different ballgame at that point - he was well beyond helping the officer by then. Not smart taking the battle out in the street since the perps were in retreat, especially in gun-terrified NYC. Thankfully no bystanders were injured. I hope the city officials who're looking into this decide not to charge the man with anything. He's a hero in my eyes. A little overzealous maybe but a hero none the less.

 

[winnre]

If I see a cop and a bad guy fighting and jump in the middle, they are BOTH going to assume I am with the other guy.

The cop may feel there is one more bag guy to deal with now. Any attention or effort he puts into me is that much less he can give to the bad guy.

The bad guy will see me coming and figure he better act fast. His adrenaline will pump even more and he will have to dispatch the threat he has in order to deal with the new threat. In this case I helped kill the cop.

 

[B2Tall]

If I see a cop and a bad guy fighting and jump in the middle, they are BOTH going to assume I am with the other guy.

The cop may feel there is one more bag guy to deal with now. Any attention or effort he puts into me is that much less he can give to the bad guy.

The bad guy will see me coming and figure he better act fast. His adrenaline will pump even more and he will have to dispatch the threat he has in order to deal with the new threat. In this case I helped kill the cop.

Really??? Would you be grabbing the LEO and trying to pull him off the other guy? Would you be punching the LEO? Wrapping your arm around the LEO's neck and choking him out?? No, you wouldn't be. If you were coming to the aid of the officer then you'd be doing those things to the other guy. Under those circumstances I don't think the officer would have any trouble distinguishing a helper from a threat.

No offense, but your excuse for not helping is really, really weak.

 

[Hamilton Felix]

Here's another anecdote (from 1911TechTalk, but I scrubbed the name)

Re: In NYC, pick up a wounded cop's gun to stop the men who shot him
Posted by:
Tue Apr 19, 2011 11:57 am (PDT)


A few years ago in KC, a motorist saw a KC cop getting the crap
beat out of him at a traffic stop (speeding, I think.) The
motorist didn't have a cell phone so he couldn't call 911.
Instead he crossed the median and helped the cop with his
attacker.

The cop's supervisor arrived and seeing the tire tracks across
the median asked the good Samaritan if those were his. He said
they were and the sup wrote him tickets for reckless driving,
vehicular endangerment (I remember I had to look that one up.
It's crossing a highway not at an intersection when traffic is
present,) and interfering with an arrest!

The local DA dropped the last when the upcry later ensued but
kept the rest. Fines totaled over $300. A lawyer, representing
the Samaritan pro-bono, solicited donations for the fine.

The cop who got the crap beat out of him later thanked the
Samaritan and contributed to the fine fund as did a number of
other local cops. There was repercussions against the KCPD cops
who donated because "they held the department up to ridicule."

That just about killed further assistance to KCPD cops from
bystanders. A few years later, a similar incident happened and
no one intervened much to the department's lament.


This pretty well sums up public attitude in too many places.

BTW, Happy Patriot's Day, My Friends!

Lexington, Middlesex County, Province of Massachusetts Bay, April 19, 1775:

(British) Maj. John Pitcairn:
"Disperse you damn rebels -- Damn you, throw down your arms and Disperse."
--Maj. John Pitcairn

(American) Capt. John Parker:
“Stand your ground; don’t fire unless fired upon, but if they mean to have a war, let it begin here.”
--Capt. John Parker


Hey, General Gage, how'd that gun control thing work out for ya, anyway? :biggrin:

(How did that ad get there? I didn't do it?)

 

[Downr@nge]

I would help the officer in a heartbeat. Even though I've had some questionable stops in the past, I could never sit idly by and watch a police officer or most other people for that matter, get beat down without trying to help.

 

[winnre]

Really??? Would you be grabbing the LEO and trying to pull him off the other guy? Would you be punching the LEO? Wrapping your arm around the LEO's neck and choking him out?? No, you wouldn't be. If you were coming to the aid of the officer then you'd be doing those things to the other guy. Under those circumstances I don't think the officer would have any trouble distinguishing a helper from a threat.

No offense, but your excuse for not helping is really, really weak.

Wow, you never broke up a fight have you. Cat and dog, son and daughter, even those are hard enough to stop, never mind two grown armed men.

 

[S&WM&P40]

A few years ago we had a code 10-13(officer down) and a code 10-15(officer needs help). The officer gave chase to a car, then pulled up in front of it and blasted the driver with paper spray. The officer then turned away and walked back to his patrol car. At that point the driver pulled out a handgun and killed the officer, then ran him over while driving away. In the video you can see a pickup truck on the road, the guy inside the truck ran to the aid of the down officer. He picked up the officers firearm and ordered the driver to drop his weapon, the driver then tried to reload his weapon and was shot and killed.

The officer that was killed was a real dirt bag(per the words of fellow officers and just about ever citizen who lived in town)

Here is the video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NF-BtESLEsU

Shooting happens just after 5:29 if you feel like skipping ahead.

officers talking about how bad of an officer he was.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FVaHk4BzmXc&feature=related

 

[B2Tall]

Wow, you never broke up a fight have you. Cat and dog, son and daughter, even those are hard enough to stop, never mind two grown armed men.

I work in the bar business. I've broken up more fights than you can imagine.

This isn't about "breaking up a fight". It's about helping one side in a fight. I wouldn't be jumping in there trying to separate the cop from the other person. I'd be doing my best to take down the person not in uniform. Big difference.

C'mon....if you were in a fight and somebody ran up and tackled (or started punching, etc.) your opponent would you really wonder who's side they were on, especially if you were a uniformed officer?? Be real. I mean, seriously.

Like I said, IMO your excuse is weak. I hope you never need help and the people nearby decide to adopt your attitude.

 

[B2Tall]

Here's another anecdote (from 1911TechTalk, but I scrubbed the name)

Re: In NYC, pick up a wounded cop's gun to stop the men who shot him
Posted by:
Tue Apr 19, 2011 11:57 am (PDT)


A few years ago in KC, a motorist saw a KC cop getting the crap
beat out of him at a traffic stop (speeding, I think.) The
motorist didn't have a cell phone so he couldn't call 911.
Instead he crossed the median and helped the cop with his
attacker.

The cop's supervisor arrived and seeing the tire tracks across
the median asked the good Samaritan if those were his. He said
they were and the sup wrote him tickets for reckless driving,
vehicular endangerment (I remember I had to look that one up.
It's crossing a highway not at an intersection when traffic is
present,) and interfering with an arrest!

The local DA dropped the last when the upcry later ensued but
kept the rest. Fines totaled over $300. A lawyer, representing
the Samaritan pro-bono, solicited donations for the fine.

The cop who got the crap beat out of him later thanked the
Samaritan and contributed to the fine fund as did a number of
other local cops. There was repercussions against the KCPD cops
who donated because "they held the department up to ridicule."

That just about killed further assistance to KCPD cops from
bystanders. A few years later, a similar incident happened and
no one intervened much to the department's lament.


This pretty well sums up public attitude in too many places.

BTW, Happy Patriot's Day, My Friends!

A potential traffic ticket wouldn't stop me from maybe saving somebody's life. I guess my priorities are a bit different.

 

[FTG-05]

A potential traffic ticket wouldn't stop me from maybe saving somebody's life. I guess my priorities are a bit different.

A simple traffic ticket would the least of your worries in a potentially lethal encounter helping a LEO.

And you never answered my question above, why is that?

"I pretty much said what EM said, just shorter. You going to take him to task also? If not, why not? "

 

[Hamilton Felix]

blasted the driver with paper spray. The officer then turned away and walked back to his patrol car.

I'd say that cop died of terminal stupidity. It happens.

A potential traffic ticket wouldn't stop me from maybe saving somebody's life. I guess my priorities are a bit different.

It's not "a potential traffic ticket." It's being punished for helping. In many places today, that is becoming the norm.

A simple traffic ticket would the least of your worries in a potentially lethal encounter helping a LEO.

This is a TRUTH.