Waffle House Shooting (Good Guy Wins)

[SGB]

You are one sorry Instructor if that is what you are.

[SARCASM]I'm heart broke someone as obviously knowledgeable as you would think so.[/SARCASM]

You do not refute the information contained in the article just attempt to flame the one who authored it.

Asking who an unknown author is hardly qualifies as flaming someone, anyone can write crap on the internet and listing source material doesn't validate the authors conclusions. I don't have to refute the information, anyone with with the presence of mind to research and verify information can figure the author is talking out his ass.

Do you also consider Masaad Ayood a person worth demeaning because he might not agree with you? Masaad is a major contributor of this information. Following are the authors footnotes.

It's MASAAD AYOOB, not Ayood ............ and while Ayoob is a very intelligent Individual and teaches some valuable skills there are many who don't agree with all of his hypothesis's, including not so little old me.

Sources and Contributors

Sources used in gathering the information presented here include:

Articles by Massad Ayoob, originally published in Shooting Industry; most of the 10-part series is available online here: Explaining the deadly force decision | Find Articles
A summary by Ron Hartman, from two printed sources, online here: http://tkdtutor.com/07Defense/Laws.htm
Personal remarks made by Marc MacYoung
Personal remarks made by Alain Burrese, Douglas Patt, Toma Rosenzweig, Martin Cooper, MG, and other members of the Animal list email listserv
An online portal for legal texts created by the Legal Information Institute at Cornell Law School, here: LII: Statutes

Sincerest thanks to all those listed, as well as to Sidney Oliver and Chele Shepard for volunteer (but excellent, natch) copyediting. Thanks also to Mas Ayoob for his continued, conscientious, and unfailingly correct research and instructional efforts in matters where others dare not tread, or do so poorly.

Oh WOW ............ that realty answers my question as to who the hell the author is doesn't it?

Why don't you explain to the uninformed on this site who Masaad Ayood is and why his opinion should be listened to.

He's a gun rage writer who teaches what he calls stressfire (known as point shooting) and has a tendency to hock whatever the latest snake oil is. He's a long time (part time) volunteer Reserve Officer in some small town in New Hampshire I believe. While he's very knowlegable and certainly worth listening to what he isn't is the ultimate end all be all on the subject of self defense, sorry if that upsets your worship of the man.

Now try and act like an adult Brandon and attack the argument instead of the Individual my not so knowledgeable friend.

 

[BluesStringer]

It's MASAAD AYOOB, not Ayood ............

I was gonna point that out too, but figured it would be kind of petty. On the other hand, I thought it was just one typo. I didn't realize he misspelled it several times when I last replied to him. Seems rather weird considering how obsessed he seems to be with Mr. Ayoob.

Now try and act like an adult Brandon and attack the argument instead of the Individual my not so knowledgeable friend.

No, really? This is the guy who compiled the link he's pushin' like a dime-bag of scag around here? Do you know that to be the case, or are you just making an educated guess? Good grief. If that's true, his only purpose for posting here is to pad his hit-count at that travesty of a website. If that is you Brandon, I want my money back! You've gotten two or three pennies from my few clicks over there! LOL What a tool....if that's true, that is. Just run-of-the-mill uninformed if SGB is mistaken.

Man, all the guys in the vault are staring at me through the glass wondering what the heck I'm laughing at. I gotta go do my route....Oh man...LOL!!

Blues

 

[CharlesMorrison]

I have done so three times.

 

[CharlesMorrison]

Bluesteele is a tool. The same kind of know it all that you find in all the forums. A pompous ass with a condescending tone. It is you mr porn star name that is ignorant. Been out here for a long time "doing the gun thing" and it's the people like you that ruin it for others. Armor car guard that I envision you, alone, sitting by your computer, ready to wade through a litany of web pages just so you can be right about EVERYTHING. You sir are a tool and I wouldn't piss on your face if it were on fire.
This will be may last post concerning you. Enjoy your miserable life and please, do us all a favor and take a bullet for someone.

 

[Treo]

Why is it that when I read this thread, I can hear Tim Allen ?

 

[Scouse]

Just spent an hour catching up, WOW!
Whilst waiting for my Breakfast Maker to wake up (or I will do the breakfast thing when she wakes up)

I have known Massad Ayoob for many years, met him when I was a board member of IALEFI. 1986-2006, and since at IDPA shoots, he is quite a good Instructor, and very good shot. And, a nice guy to talk to.

And of course, many different opinions abound as to his background, or ability's, as it is a free country, and this is a free flowing place to post, that's fine.

When some newbe comes on board, lashes out, left right and center, at posters who have been on the site for years, I think you must just have some fun, and reply, in kind.

But still we should not loose sight of the main point of this thread "Waffle House Shooting" and as the actual shooter posts here, and as he was not arrested, and is not in jail, seems to me he acted within the law?

Then all hell breaks, as we all pour forth our opinions, some quite intelligent (like mine LOL) and some not so.

As a person well versed in fighting, and with a short fuse reference defense of my Lovely Wife, my opinion in this matter, backs up SS, and I would have shot the gun holding robber in the head, the instant his eyes were off me.

Now quoting all the legal reasons why that is OK, and has been done by many, will not happen by me, no need, my hands have flown free in the past, to protect my Wife, and others, the Glock 19 I carry would have been deployed, no question, no hesitation.

All the facts in this matter, an armed robbery, have been viewed through a microscope, so to speak, so much so, that there is no question (in my mind) as to the distances, and the actions of all involved.

This is not a hypothetical, it is real.
So reference leaving your pistol in it's holster, and being a GOOD WITNESS! My only comment to you, you are a coward, and your loved one is not protected.

 

[wolf_fire]

Things that I carry when I am out and about:
1) firearm... I am a sheepdog, most people are sheep, and there are wolves out there. If you don't get this reference, read Lt. Col Grossman.
2) cellphone... I can call in the cavalry (police) but I can also call my lawyer that I have on retainer... something everyone who carries a gun should have.
3) Phone numbers written down of my attorney... in case the cell phone goes blooey or gets damaged.
4) a knife clipped into both each front pockets of my pants.... If my arm is grabbed and I can't get to my gun, I can sure stab the son-of-a-beeeeep

Most people will forget about the attorney. It has been documented that anyone involved in a shooting will go through mental stress that will involve: tunnel vision, tachypsychia (seems as if time slows down), rapid heart rate, loss of fine motor skills, and the list goes on. You will NOT be able to remember everything that happened when the police arrive. It's been documented you will not get your full memory of the event until approximately 72 hours. Yet they will badger you to make a statement. What you say is that you are undergoing the following conditions that I mentioned above, and you will be more than willing to make a statement in a few days but only with counsel present. If the badgers keep pestering you, you most likely will need an ambulance for that elevated heart rate... request one. They won't interrogate you in the hospital.

Have I thought about this, YES. Does my wife have phone numbers of our attorney, YES. Do I have phone numbers of my attorney, YES. Do I carry the cell phone with their numbers, YES. Are those numbers written in my wallet as well in case the cell phone would have gotten damaged, YES. You are not the policeman's friend until you have been exonerated.

 

[Keykutter]

That's not the right kind of comment. The use of deadly force should never be considered "awesome". Taking a human life, justified or not, is a very serious matter.

You read this as I wish I could shoot someone someday? You should look up the word awesome. In the context I was using it, it meant 'extrordinary'.

If there were ever a better application of the SC hangun laws, this is the epitome of it's use.

Maybe if you lived in SC you would understand the predatory nature of these type's. No morality and no respect for human life. It's like they never knew of a higher power and the strive to be more like Him.

It puzzles me though because the generations before him are not like that. This IS the bible belt mind you but this younger generation has no concept of what the bible or it's teachings are.

So yes, if you are going to use deadly force, by the law that SC currently has on the books, to protect life, yourself or others, and stand your ground, he used awesome judgement.

If this 'Sheepdog' were laying on the floor bleeding in the aftermath, you can be sure the 'unbiased press' would have asked the question, 'with an armed citizen sitting not 10 feet away, you have to wonder why he didn't use his gun to save live's.

All that being said, I think the shooter should stop pleading his case on the internet. Some of these 'forum' excerpts will surely become part of the defense's exhibits and most assuredly all be taken out of context.

To the shooter; you know what you have done and you also know, especially now, that not all agree with you. That happens in every step of life. You acted as a man at least once, act like one again and stop trying to convince EVERYONE you were right. Back away from this useless drivel and try to go on with your life. Don't try and second guess your actions, you may have saved my life from a future attack. Many others and I thank you for stepping up to the plate.....and swinging.

KK

 

[SGB]

Bluesteele is a tool. The same kind of know it all that you find in all the forums. A pompous ass with a condescending tone. It is you mr porn star name that is ignorant. Been out here for a long time "doing the gun thing" and it's the people like you that ruin it for others. Armor car guard that I envision you, alone, sitting by your computer, ready to wade through a litany of web pages just so you can be right about EVERYTHING. You sir are a tool and I wouldn't piss on your face if it were on fire.
This will be may last post concerning you. Enjoy your miserable life and please, do us all a favor and take a bullet for someone.

Wow, what a childish rant.

 

[BluesStringer]

Bluesteele is a tool. The same kind of know it all that you find in all the forums. A pompous ass with a condescending tone. It is you mr porn star name that is ignorant. Been out here for a long time "doing the gun thing" and it's the people like you that ruin it for others. Armor car guard that I envision you, alone, sitting by your computer, ready to wade through a litany of web pages just so you can be right about EVERYTHING. You sir are a tool and I wouldn't piss on your face if it were on fire.
This will be may last post concerning you. Enjoy your miserable life and please, do us all a favor and take a bullet for someone.

Quoted so that this moron can't edit out his wish for my death by gun violence on this gun-rights website.

Really kid, even if everything you say above is true, that I'm a pompous know it all who talks condescendingly to you, to wish death on me for that is proof that you are not mentally stable enough to carry a gun. Thanks for the clear exposition of who and what you are.

Smooth move there to "Like" that post too Treo. You both should be banned. Link Removed

Blues

 

[snipingshadow]

You read this as I wish I could shoot someone someday? You should look up the word awesome. In the context I was using it, it meant 'extrordinary'.

If there were ever a better application of the SC hangun laws, this is the epitome of it's use.

Maybe if you lived in SC you would understand the predatory nature of these type's. No morality and no respect for human life. It's like they never knew of a higher power and the strive to be more like Him.

It puzzles me though because the generations before him are not like that. This IS the bible belt mind you but this younger generation has no concept of what the bible or it's teachings are.

So yes, if you are going to use deadly force, by the law that SC currently has on the books, to protect life, yourself or others, and stand your ground, he used awesome judgement.

If this 'Sheepdog' were laying on the floor bleeding in the aftermath, you can be sure the 'unbiased press' would have asked the question, 'with an armed citizen sitting not 10 feet away, you have to wonder why he didn't use his gun to save live's.

All that being said, I think the shooter should stop pleading his case on the internet. Some of these 'forum' excerpts will surely become part of the defense's exhibits and most assuredly all be taken out of context.

To the shooter; you know what you have done and you also know, especially now, that not all agree with you. That happens in every step of life. You acted as a man at least once, act like one again and stop trying to convince EVERYONE you were right. Back away from this useless drivel and try to go on with your life. Don't try and second guess your actions, you may have saved my life from a future attack. Many others and I thank you for stepping up to the plate.....and swinging.

KK

Just had to try to personally talk some sense into the noobs. I see yourself, blues, SGB, Scouse, and Navy have it under control. The new guys have already proven themselves to be people worthy of being ignored along with Rich and Treo. Also in any post or statement i have been careful as to what i have said. The main fact is you never want to shoot anybody but if you draw... you shoot to eliminate a threat whether that be him or the gun hitting the ground. Do not draw except as a last resort because if you give any warning it is easy for the DA to argue your life was never in danger and you just committed a felony for brandishing a weapon. Like it has been said i was 100% within my legal rights and therefore, 100% immune from any criminal and civil action taken against me. Too many people on my side for anybody to even think about bringing charges against me. Im pretty confident you would really be scrambling to try to find a jury from SC that would convict me of any wrong doing.

 

[rrman12280]

Bluesteele is a tool. The same kind of know it all that you find in all the forums. A pompous ass with a condescending tone. It is you mr porn star name that is ignorant. Been out here for a long time "doing the gun thing" and it's the people like you that ruin it for others. Armor car guard that I envision you, alone, sitting by your computer, ready to wade through a litany of web pages just so you can be right about EVERYTHING. You sir are a tool and I wouldn't piss on your face if it were on fire.
This will be may last post concerning you. Enjoy your miserable life and please, do us all a favor and take a bullet for someone.

Not a nice choice of words there. Even more reason to ignore you. I have mostly agreed with SS and those who have supported his actions. You are entitled to your opinion, but to stoop so low and make those comments is beyond reasonable debate.

Sent from my C771 using Tapatalk 2

 

[cluznar]

The bad guys could have dropped their guns and they would both still be alive. Dumb to point you gun at someone who has his already pointed at you.

Good guy 1 Bad guy 0

:dance3:

 

[Treo]

The bad guys could have dropped their guns and they would both still be alive. Dumb to point you gun at someone who has his already pointed at you.

Good guy 1 Bad guy 0

:dance3:

Hey Cluz, still waiting for you to post your qualifications.

Just sayin'

 

[CharlesMorrison]

I am new to this forum, not to guns. I am not going to lay down and be chastised by some jerk who thinks he knows more than me. Just because i am new does not make me any less competent than those who have hundreds of postings.
I posted what I felt and at least i am man enough to take responsibility for my post. Bluebird knows me about as well as I know him, zilch.
You can all call me a bad person for saying what I said, I could care less. He is as I have described him and I have no problem calling out a loud mouth like him on this forum.
I am not going to take his **** just because I am "new" to this board. I have seen his kind in almost every forum I've visited. He is the "high school" bully. The guy who knows it all. If you think so highly of him, I feel sorry for you.

 

[rrman12280]

I am new to this forum, not to guns. I am not going to lay down and be chastised by some jerk who thinks he knows more than me. Just because i am new does not make me any less competent than those who have hundreds of postings.
I posted what I felt and at least i am man enough to take responsibility for my post. Bluebird knows me about as well as I know him, zilch.
You can all call me a bad person for saying what I said, I could care less. He is as I have described him and I have no problem calling out a loud mouth like him on this forum.
I am not going to take his **** just because I am "new" to this board. I have seen his kind in almost every forum I've visited. He is the "high school" bully. The guy who knows it all. If you think so highly of him, I feel sorry for you.

It was you wanting someone to take a bullet over a disagreement that was the troubling part. And yet your still defending it.

If you don't like to talk with someone, you can always ignore them. Your opinion is just that, just like anyone else's.

Sent from my C771 using Tapatalk 2

 

[Wyldekard]

I am new to this forum, not to guns. I am not going to lay down and be chastised by some jerk who thinks he knows more than me. Just because i am new does not make me any less competent than those who have hundreds of postings.
I posted what I felt and at least i am man enough to take responsibility for my post. Bluebird knows me about as well as I know him, zilch.
You can all call me a bad person for saying what I said, I could care less. He is as I have described him and I have no problem calling out a loud mouth like him on this forum.
I am not going to take his **** just because I am "new" to this board. I have seen his kind in almost every forum I've visited. He is the "high school" bully. The guy who knows it all. If you think so highly of him, I feel sorry for you.

What is the highest level of education you have completed? Just curious.....

 

[SGB]

Does your mother know you're on her computer?

 

[CharlesMorrison]

I'm on her iTouch! Ssssssh!

 

[CharlesMorrison]

Sorry about that SGB . I hit a friend request button by mistake on your profile! Options on the iTouch are very few!