Cocked _and_Locked
Banned
Ouch, ouch, ouch!!!! :sarcastic:
To Chamber or Not to Chamber?
- Thread starter Socket
- Start date
I am going to leave while some on here continue on with their small sword fight. If I post again, I will make certain to keep my eyes open for specific "posers". credibility and respect isn't achieved by arrogant opinions, but a track record of continued, well advanced, wise and intelligent post.
I am now officially leaving this pissing contest.....
I am now officially leaving this pissing contest.....
marionandjohn
New member
Hope this wasnt directed at me but I have to say it because I dont know if anyone else will and most of you can call me "the jerk" or what ever but I have to wonder how far I can piss. I usually just piss as far as I am standing from the toilet or tree never thought to measure the distant.
fftopic:I'm new here but I've been shooting since I was old enough to keep both the butt and the barrel off the ground at the same time and I've been carrying concealed for about 20 years now.
Here's a nickel's worth of my free opinion on the matter. Like it or don't like it, agree or disagree as you wish. Don't bother arguing, because I really don't care if you agree or not.
If you are not comfortable carrying a loaded gun, don't waste your money on a concealed carry permit because you aren't ready to make use of it.
If you don't want to carry a loaded gun because 'it's dangerous' or you might have an 'accident', what makes you think you will actually be able to use it if -heaven forbid- that time comes?
If you are not comfortable carrying a particular gun with a round in the chamber, then it's not the gun for you to use as a concealed carry piece. Find one you are comfortable with.
Carrying an unloaded gun -and a gun that won't go BANG when you disengage any safeties it has and press the trigger is unloaded- is being a gun bearer for a mugger. Do the rest of us a favor and leave it at home. That way, the mugger(s) can't take it away from you and use it on ME later.
Yes, I have heard of the "Israeli Method". The Israelis that developed it are extraordinarily well trained warriors that have mastered multiple disciplines of both armed and unarmed combat.
When you have studied multiple martial arts forms (including Krav Magav) for years and practiced countless hours and shot thousands of rounds of live fire to perfect your technique and make it instinctual, we can talk. Me? I'm lucky if I get to shoot a couple hundred rounds a month most of the time. That's just enough to keep the rust from setting in.
Get Hollywood out of your mind. Muggers aren't going to slip out of an alley alone, walk right up to you with his hand in his coat pocket and say, "Gimme your wallet," like it's some '70's vigilante flick.
They'll catch you distracted, out of position to protect yourself and isolated. Maybe you are loading groceries in your car or you're walking through the mall parking lot. And they may not be alone. You may end up fighting off an attacker with your hands. You may end up on the ground from the very beginning because they blitz attacked you. You may be injured and one arm may be incapacitated.
Here's a nickel's worth of my free opinion on the matter. Like it or don't like it, agree or disagree as you wish. Don't bother arguing, because I really don't care if you agree or not.
If you are not comfortable carrying a loaded gun, don't waste your money on a concealed carry permit because you aren't ready to make use of it.
If you don't want to carry a loaded gun because 'it's dangerous' or you might have an 'accident', what makes you think you will actually be able to use it if -heaven forbid- that time comes?
If you are not comfortable carrying a particular gun with a round in the chamber, then it's not the gun for you to use as a concealed carry piece. Find one you are comfortable with.
Carrying an unloaded gun -and a gun that won't go BANG when you disengage any safeties it has and press the trigger is unloaded- is being a gun bearer for a mugger. Do the rest of us a favor and leave it at home. That way, the mugger(s) can't take it away from you and use it on ME later.
Yes, I have heard of the "Israeli Method". The Israelis that developed it are extraordinarily well trained warriors that have mastered multiple disciplines of both armed and unarmed combat.
When you have studied multiple martial arts forms (including Krav Magav) for years and practiced countless hours and shot thousands of rounds of live fire to perfect your technique and make it instinctual, we can talk. Me? I'm lucky if I get to shoot a couple hundred rounds a month most of the time. That's just enough to keep the rust from setting in.
Get Hollywood out of your mind. Muggers aren't going to slip out of an alley alone, walk right up to you with his hand in his coat pocket and say, "Gimme your wallet," like it's some '70's vigilante flick.
They'll catch you distracted, out of position to protect yourself and isolated. Maybe you are loading groceries in your car or you're walking through the mall parking lot. And they may not be alone. You may end up fighting off an attacker with your hands. You may end up on the ground from the very beginning because they blitz attacked you. You may be injured and one arm may be incapacitated.
Unfettered Might
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CaptAmerica
New member
Amen brother... Amen
Hawkeye638
Member
Unless I missed it no one addressed the situation where you do not have the use of your free hand to chamber a round in a self defense situation. You free hand/arm could be busy holding back an assailant or worse, your arm or hand could be incapacitated because of being injured or shot in the assault. Try chambering a round with just one hand and see what happens. You need to be able to draw and fire using only one hand.
marionandjohn
New member
I am pretty sure that I did early in this thread or maybe another. However I carry Condition 1 as many have said but I do only have the "block" style rear sights so that I can chamber one handed incase I have a misfire and my other arm is occupied. I simply take finger off triger point at ground and grab my belt with the rear sights and releasing the sights off the belt with out riding the slide foward. This is a very effective way and the only way I have figured to do this. off course if you carry a revolver then you just pull the trigger anywho. and they do make a holster (not sure the name) that instead of drawing up you draw down which chambers the round at that time. Again I am not sure how that holster works or the name I have only heard of them and never been around one. Again I am not saying carry not chambered but get comfortable with how you carry.
gvaldeg1
NRA Member
When this subject comes up, I always am reminded of a famous quote by the old Texas Ranger Charlie Miller. It is: "Texas Ranger Charlie Miller was minding his own business when a concerned citizen came up to him, noted the hammer cocked back on the big 1911 dangling from the Ranger's belt, and asked, "Isn't that dangerous?" Charlie replied, "I wouldn't carry the son-of-a-bitch if it wasn't dangerous." That alway struck me as a pretty good reply.
Something else to think about - many of the "mouse guns" (such as the Ruger LCP and the Kahr P380 and PM9) are pushing the envelope of having low slide mass, which therefore requires a more powerful recoil spring. The end result is that these guns are a little tricky to chamber the first round by racking the slide. The PM9 is a prime example. My PM9 has been 100% reliable but if, when racking the slide you "ride" the slide at all it will have trouble chambering. My LCP is the same way, albiet not as sensitive. These weapons are designed to be carried with one in the chamber, and in both cases are not fully cocked until the trigger is pulled.
torontogunguy
New member
Rev. Jim:
My cousin in PA kept "his booger finger off the bang button" but nontheless managed to put a great engineered hollowpoint round through his hand, which for all intents and purposes is unusable now. It was not his finger that made bang... and I need not get into the details. The fact is that some guns are safer than others. Personally, I look at the 1911's out there today with grip safety, thumb safety and so on and think that there really cannot be anything much safer. Then I see the HK P7M8 squeeze cocker and think - jeepers, I could feel comfy carrying this one with one in the chamber in my pocket without even a cheap holster! The truth of the matter is that there are all kinds of guns out there with all sorts of safety features and simply keeping the finger off the trigger is not going to keep the gun from going bang. I KNOW.
Personally? I carry with one in the chamber ALWAYS. Why? Because there are plenty of situations where I am not going to have the time or circumstances to chamber a round prior to firing. My personal favourites right now are Glocks with NY1 triggers and top quality holsters with at least Level 1 retention (just to make sure that the trigger stays stuffed away behind closed doors). I am also favouring the Sig P239 series, the HK P7 series, and some small 1911 types. I have been playing around for about 5 or 6 YEARS now with different handguns and holsters and still have no firm decision. I am also stuck with a decision to be made on caliber as well. I like .45 but for carry purposes it seems to me that the most carry friendly handguns are in 9mm excepting revolvers. And that's another story completely as a good revolver carried in a top quality holster to my way of thinking anyway, is super safe. The cylinder does not turn - the gun does not go bang, finger on the trigger of otherwise.
I think the bottom line is that it is not a simple choice but an individual one. I know my level of comfort changes with the method of carry. I love OWB carry with the muzzle aimed at the ground slightly behind me (FBI cant). It permits a safe carry position even if one lets go; it tends to leave the mouth of the holster open for a one handed reholster and so on.
Whatever your situation though, keep this in mind. It is better to have one with a round NOT chambered than to NOT have a gun because it's at home. And if I am totally uncomfortable I will carry without a chambered round but I will carry (where legal). My PREFERENCE is one in the chamber and ready to rock and roll. I pray that I will NEVER have to remove my handgun from its holster except for practice or cleaning.. but if I need it you can be sure that if I am legal it will be there one way or the other. And that, after all, is the bottom line.
I am just as concerned about the level of expertise that we are beginning to see out there and it is not a good thing. This is why there are states demanding in-state lengthy firearms courses with live fire. We just had a fellow shoot and kill HIMSELF in defense of his home because he heard a noise (see NRA-ILA-The Armed Citizen). We need more training and practice along with that decision as to what to carry and how to carry it. Much more expertise.
Be safe. Be ready. And keep the damn NRA stickers off the car unless you want to get bonked on the head and have your handgun stolen.
torontogunguy
New member
Huh?
I don't know where you get your numbers from but in any event they seem to be reversed; what you are stating is that you have a greater chance of shooting yourself in the leg with a chambered round.
Let me ask you this. Typical example these days for handgun use. You are subject of an attempted carjacking... only you don't really know if it is an attempted carjacking because some fool just bumped into the back of you and is walking up to your window with his hands in his pockets to exchange insurance information... it's time for you to draw, aim and shoot because he's just presented a loaded handgun to your face through the open window... or better yet, has grabbed your head and is attempting to wrap it around the steering wheel. Please explain to me how one is supposed to assess the situation, draw from an appendix OWB holster aim and fire versus rack one, aim and fire, without shooting oneself in the leg or whatever.
No. I think EXPERTS will agree that you want to find a SAFE carry piece like perhaps an HK P7M8 and you want to carry one chambered. It is the safest carry in the world and the chances of shooting yourself anywhere or having an AD/ND are almost nil. BUT you are ready for just this type of situation. How do I know? If I didn't explain it in detail before I will explain it again. I HAD IT HAPPEN TO ME. I will never carry without a round in the chamber. I don't care what the firearm costs me and I am very cognizant of the safety features preventing an AD/ND, like a thumb safety, grip safety, etc. Or simply a snubbie stuck inside a tight holster... again, for those of you that don't understand how these guns work, if the cylinder does not rotate, the gun does not go bang, even if your "booger finger is in your nose".
That's all I have to say on the matter. No need to hack it to death. Anyone wising to chime in please do so from a position of experience, knowledge and empirical data rather than 'guessing'. Thanks.
My first post...the ?
I started this thread with a simple ? whether to carry one in the chamber. Since then, I have been carrying one in the chamber. My comfort level increased because I am 100% safe and aware that I am carrying a loaded handgun. I take the risk because of the risk of threats. Power to the people.
I started this thread with a simple ? whether to carry one in the chamber. Since then, I have been carrying one in the chamber. My comfort level increased because I am 100% safe and aware that I am carrying a loaded handgun. I take the risk because of the risk of threats. Power to the people.
NDshotokan
Call me Crazy...
Well done. And yes, power to the people.
marionandjohn
New member
With out knowing the details I have to ask why he had his hand in front of a loaded gun? was he stopping the bullet or using his hand for good muzzle control? until I have checked atleast 2 times mostly three times and the action is open and will prolly still check for a round and clip another time I will then and only then allow my hand to go infront of the barrel for what ever the intended purpose would be. Just my thought process right or wrong but I would have to say if INDEED the "booger finger" didnt touch the "bang button" then there was a weapon malfunction and that is whole nother problem and i have to wonder when the last time that weapon was torn down cleaned and inspected throughly. I am not saying your cousin didnt have a legitimate accidental discharge but with his hand infront of the weapon I have to wonder what happened.
As I read in another post some one hangs their glock on the stall door by the trigger gaurd while using a public restroom this reminds me its not just the booger finger you have to keep off but you must make sure nothing enters the trigger gaurd until the trigger is ready to be pulled.
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