To Chamber or Not to Chamber?

[hardballer]

I can not believe this is still an issue. If you carry a gun without chambering a round, leave it at home.

Unless:

you have the willpower and motivation to train in the Israeli method more power to you. When deployed successfully it is very fast and accurate.

Too right you are.

"Safety is something that happens between your ears" not in your hands." - Jeff Cooper

Many of us here have carried fully loaded weapons for years without incident. You need to pay attention to what you're doing, and give the weapon the respect it deserves. Follow all of the safety rules. Do that and you'll have no problems.

When I first got into shooting, a friend, a retired Army Ranger had the same sage advice for me. He taught me safety, safety, safety first. Think. Proper gun handling for safety and accuracy. Repetitive training is how I learned. I've been carrying for a good many years and still 'think' before I do anything with a firearm.

It is beyond dumb to not chamber a round whether at home or out in the public.

You should always treat a weapon as if it has a round chambered. If you do this, then you should never run into accidental discharges. You always keep a firearm pointed away from people(except when you are defending against attacks from said person), you never place your finger in the trigger guard...well, you just need to look up and study firearm safety, if you do not already know this stuff.

Whether a person chambers a round or not is their choice, but I suggest that those who choose not to chamber a round not carry a firearm. In the end, it will end up being your firearm that is taken from you and either used against you and/or used against another person.

This quote cuts to the heart of the problem.

You should always treat a weapon as if it has a round chambered.

If you learn to look at all weapons with this respect, accidents may never happen to you. I once was handed a Russian, Dragunov 7.62x54R. Was assured it was empty by the owner. My habit is to verify any firearm before I do anything else. I pulled the mag which was empty. When I pulled the bolt handle back, a nice shiny brass round was ejected. It had had a round chambered. Scary.

The point is, that carrying with a round chambered is not scary if you know it is chambered and follow all safety protocols. If you are a jack azz or a little girl, maybe a gun just isn't for you. Try a wrist rocket sling shot or a rock. Those are both much safer.


Link Removed

 

[Cocked _and_Locked]

So much false bravado! Bravo - good for you all who are so well trained with razor sharp skills, having ultimate control over your mind, body and equipment. Marvelous!

Some of you will also be the ones who manage to shoot your own azz off when and if you finally do get around to reaching for it in the heat of the moment, momentarily confused. It happens. Reality check.

 

[ClearSightTactical]

So much false bravado! Bravo - good for you all who are so well trained with razor sharp skills, having ultimate control over your mind, body and equipment. Marvelous!

Some of you will also be the ones who manage to shoot your own azz off when and if you finally do get around to reaching for it in the heat of the moment, momentarily confused. It happens. Reality check.

If you're criticizing us for having razor sharp skills, and ultimate control over our minds, bodies, and equipment than what jedi skills do you have to be able to rack a round in the heat of the moment?

If you're saying we could lose control of our fine motor skills and get our clumsy hand in the trigger guard- you sir, are correct. That is why we (I) advocate for carrying chambered- because the loss of fine motor skills required to manipulate a firearm in the 'heat of the moment'. I think there is a dramatically lower chance in having an ND while drawing than fouling up the process necessary for Chambering a round.

 

[Cocked _and_Locked]

Fine. To each his own. But don't tell people:

If you carry a gun without chambering a round, leave it at home.

That is nonsense.

 

[ClearSightTactical]

Fine. To each his own. But don't tell people:

That is nonsense.

I agree. A half loaded gun is better than nothing at all. You generalized your comment, which is why I responded... Again, if you have the willpower and/or discipline to practice then more power to you.

I just think of it like:

If I practice every day or every few days and am very proficient at drawing from concealment, racking a round, and firing. I'd rather utilize that time to work on draw, trigger control, and research of the laws and further training than have to practice multiple times per week for long sessions to maintain such a perishable skill.

If you practice every single day you may be as fast as those of us who have a round chambered and practice moderately... (general statement..)

 

[hardballer]

So much false bravado! Bravo - good for you all who are so well trained with razor sharp skills, having ultimate control over your mind, body and equipment. Marvelous!

Some of you will also be the ones who manage to shoot your own azz off when and if you finally do get around to reaching for it in the heat of the moment, momentarily confused. It happens. Reality check.

I am fairly competent with my 1911 and a half dozen other firearms. Maybe a bit more than fairly competent.
No false bravado. I don't think spending time at the range or in real world type competitions can be held against a person. If you are not familiar with your firearm, you are foolish. If you are not familiar with the enemy you are worse than foolish.

I really did not want to argue and I meant what I said. Leave it at home. You'll hurt yourself or someone else or get yourself killed. Carry pepper spray or a baseball bat. I'd say you're the pot calling the kettle black with your comments.

I agree. A half loaded gun is better than nothing at all.

You're absolutely correct. A half loaded gun makes a great club. A baseball bat works much better.

The point is, that carrying with a round chambered is not scary if you know it is chambered and follow all safety protocols. If you are a jack azz or a little girl, maybe a gun just isn't for you. Try a wrist rocket sling shot or a rock. Those are both much safer.

Still true for all the little girls out there. Do yourself a favor. Get to know your firearm well enough to carry it with a round in the chamber. You will then have command of your firearm, not visa versa. That little girl reference in no way is meant to demean diminutive or petite women with the guts and intellect to carry properly. Read Col. Jeff Cooper, Clint Smith, Sheriff Jim Wilson, Massad Ayoob, etc. ad nauseum.

The only ones I ever hear advocating not carrying one in the chamber are those covering their exposed to litigation posteriors i.e. LEOs, Israelis or those who are not confident enough to do so. If you are not confident enough to carry with a round chambered, I recommend you rethink carrying. When adrenalin hits and panic sets in, you really and truly do have to be able to do what is necessary without contemplation. A BG can close on you from twenty feet in a few seconds.

For those of you with the bravado to open your mouth before actually knowing what your talking about, read this:

It is common knowledge that a suspect, armed with an edged weapon and within twenty-one feet of a police officer presents a deadly threat. Why? Because the “average” man can run that twenty-one feet in about one-point-five seconds; the same one-point-five seconds it will take that police officer to recognize danger, draw and point his weapon, and then pull the trigger. Even if the officer manages to get the shot off, and even if it hits the suspect; even if it instantly disables the suspect, the blade is going to be so close to the officer that the suspect’s momentum may continue forward with enough force for the edged weapon to end up injuring the officer anyway.

Read the whole article here.

 

[Cocked _and_Locked]

I believe you are fairly "in"competent and presumptuous to say least, claiming to know what's best for everyone else.

You're overconfidence and conceited swagger will probably get you killed someday.

Good luck with that! leasantry:

 

[hardballer]

I believe you are fairly "in"competent and presumptuous to say least, claiming to know what's best for everyone else.

You're overconfidence and conceited swagger will probably get you killed someday.

Good luck with that! leasantry:

re-read my last post smart guy.

 

[hardballer]

I'm Sorry, Cocked and dorked, I forgot who you were. The local cave troll. Your on the iggy list now. bye bye.

I can't hear you. . .hehehe:biggrin:

 

[marionandjohn]

You're absolutely correct. A half loaded gun makes a great club. A baseball bat works much better.

To jump in the middle of this might be dumb but I have to disagree with your thought process. The idea of a site like this one is to get MORE people COMFORTABLE with carring a gun. I gun with the mag loaded and not chambered is 10X better then the one left at home. Do you always fill your gas tank on your car to the brim? or has there been times when you just put 10 or 15 bucks in it? What works for one person dont always work for everyone. Yes I carry chambered and encourage all to do the same, however, if carring not chambered gets you to carry then by all means carry not chambered and get comfortable with your weapon but by all means dont leave it at home. When drawn, a weapon not chambered pointed at a bad guy has the same fear striking capability as a chambered one that didnt have the triggered pulled. And before anyone starts that you are able to draw your weapon and not fire it but you should be ready to fire it if drawn hince the carry chambered. Again i close with carry the weapon that makes YOU comfortable and not the one that makes someone else happy. Carring a firearm has turned into more of a privilage in this country then a right so take advantage of it and carry. As for a half loaded gun making a good baseball bat so does a fully loaded gun that misfired. you should still practice racking a round even if you carry chambered you never know what will happen but you can always count on murphy to be there.

 

[hardballer]

I guess the point is being missed here. Get to know your gun like the back of your hand. Inside and out. have complete confidence in your gun. If it is a 1911, it's about the easiest gun in the world to take apart and put back together. There are so many sites online that have diagrams and tutorials that you have to try not to be familiar with it. Get to the range and go through some rounds. Hundreds of rounds.

I was fortunate to be initiated to the world of guns and the 1911 by a retired Army Ranger who taught me how to field strip it first, then to tear it completely down. I got to know my weapon well, inside and out. When we went to the range, we'd set up real world targets and used cover and concealment to shoot around (barrels labeled as such). Shot from a car, while changing a tire etc.

So, maybe I had an unfair advantage but I don't think so. All this can be duplicated by anyone with a little creativity and imagination. Carrying a gun is not something to take lightly. Get serious and learn about your weapon. Carrying it with a round in the chamber is not a big deal if you know the rules and follow them.

There are three rules of safe gun handling. Learn them right here. Repeat them as many times as you like:

ALWAYS point the barrel of the gun in a safe direction. A safe direction is defined as a direction where if the gun discharged, nobody would get hurt. The best direction to point a gun is generally at the ground and to the side.

This is known as the Golden Rule Of Gun Safety.

If everyone followed this one rule, it would bring an end to accidental firearm related deaths.

Be aware that the "safe direction" may change as you change your location.

ALWAYS keep your finger off the trigger until you are ready to fire. There is a natural tendency to place the index finger inside the trigger guard. This MUST be avoided. Condition yourself to place your shooting hand index finger along the side of the frame.

If you stumble and begin to fall while holding a firearm, please be aware that your hand and fingers will begin to clench naturally during your fall. That is why you must condition yourself to place your trigger finger outside of the trigger guard when handling or carrying a gun.

There is no reason whatsoever that your finger should be on the trigger unless you have safely and appropriately acquired your target and your sight picture and are ready for the trigger squeeze.

ALWAYS Keep the action open and the gun unloaded until you are ready to use it. The action is the moving parts of the gun that allow loading, unloading, firing and extraction of the empty case or shell. If you are not ready to use it, keep the action open and unloaded.

With an open and unloaded action, the only injury that might occur, is if you drop the firearm on your foot.




Gun Safety At All Times
ALWAYS treat every gun as if it is loaded and ready to fire. An excuse often heard following an accidental death is that "...I thought it was unloaded." ALWAYS handle the gun as if it is loaded, even if you know it is empty.


Never target shoot or hunt with a firearm, when you are too tired or fatigued to continue to pay attention and operate a firearm safely. After getting a brand new gun or your first firearm, you may have a tendency to stay out too long. Call it a day before you get too tired to pay attention.


NEVER point a gun at something or someone that you don't intend to shoot at. As Jeff Cooper would say "Don't point a gun at anything you are not prepared to destroy."


Check the action of the firearm every time you pick it up. Condition yourself to do this. Check that action again, even if you just checked it.


Wear eye and ear protection as appropriate. Inviting a hot piece of metal or powder in your eye is not a very good idea, in fact it hurts like hell. ALWAYS wear those silly looking glasses or you may be sorry. If you want to be able to hear your grandchildren, you should have ear plugs or ear protection muffs and use them according to the instructions.

P.S. I do not believe coddling nubes is the way to go. Just saying. . .

 

[Cocked _and_Locked]

I can't here you. . .hehehe:biggrin:

Excellent! Then he won't have to respond either, wasting rational people's time hammering away at his repeated indoctrination we've all heard a hundred times. Maybe he will find a thread entitled "Gun Safety" and be able to make a good contribution.

Back to the subject, well said marionandjohn! Maybe we're not one single-minded Borg around here marching in lock step to the intransigent know-it-all's!

If Mr. Hardhead had any sense, he would agree to disagree on the point, but people disagreeing with him seems to make him uncomfortable. He's in his quiet place now, head buried in sand. Good for him. leasantry:

It's nice to see there are some around here with a more moderate,tolerant POV.

 

[ClearSightTactical]

Excellent! Then he won't have to respond either, wasting rational people's time hammering away at his repeated indoctrination we've all heard a hundred times. Maybe he will find a thread entitled "Gun Safety" and be able to make a good contribution.

Back to the subject, well said marionandjohn! Maybe we're not one single-minded Borg around here marching in lock step to the intransigent know-it-all's!

If Mr. Hardhead had any sense, he would agree to disagree on the point, but people disagreeing with him seems to make him uncomfortable. He's in his quiet place now, head buried in sand. Good for him. leasantry:

It's nice to see there are some around here with a more moderate,tolerant POV.

You're obviously having a good time taunting him.

that is all leasantry: lol

 

[inspector710]

One in the chamber. 12 in the magazine.

 

[Socket]

I appreciate everybody's thoughts to chamber or not. This site is growing and if all of you would like to continue to grow, maybe respond in a respectful way and try to stay on point. This was my first post since I joined a couple of days ago. So when I asked about chambering, I was really concerned about it. I am extremely safe with my handgun and always...always assume their is one in the round. I have 4 children that has only seen my gun once, they see my small safe in the truck but don't know the combo. If it's not on me its in there. But there is always a chance, maybe .000000001% that they happen to find it and it's chambered.... In my thought process I feel there is more of a chance of that rather then a situation the deems it appropriate to draw and shoot.

I could argue that we shouldn't holster but carry in our hand 100% of the time because there is error in drawing. I practice drawing and chambering all in one motion just as fast if I draw it. There are some great arguments concerning one arm injured, but would that also be the issue for everybody if the arm injured was the one you draw with?

I plan on posting future comments, if you plan on replying, please use some respect. Referring to someone with names or insults doesn't really accomplish anything. My grandpa always said"if you argue with a fool it just looks like 2 fools arguing"

For those that replied with respect, thank you. I am starting to feel more confident with either decision. Safety and Comfort.

In God's Grips,
Socket

 

[ClearSightTactical]

I appreciate everybody's thoughts to chamber or not. This site is growing and if all of you would like to continue to grow, maybe respond in a respectful way and try to stay on point. This was my first post since I joined a couple of days ago. So when I asked about chambering, I was really concerned about it. I am extremely safe with my handgun and always...always assume their is one in the round. I have 4 children that has only seen my gun once, they see my small safe in the truck but don't know the combo. If it's not on me its in there. But there is always a chance, maybe .000000001% that they happen to find it and it's chambered.... In my thought process I feel there is more of a chance of that rather then a situation the deems it appropriate to draw and shoot.

I could argue that we shouldn't holster but carry in our hand 100% of the time because there is error in drawing. I practice drawing and chambering all in one motion just as fast if I draw it. There are some great arguments concerning one arm injured, but would that also be the issue for everybody if the arm injured was the one you draw with?

I plan on posting future comments, if you plan on replying, please use some respect. Referring to someone with names or insults doesn't really accomplish anything. My grandpa always said"if you argue with a fool it just looks like 2 fools arguing"

For those that replied with respect, thank you. I am starting to feel more confident with either decision. Safety and Comfort.

In God's Grips,
Socket

Sir, I do apologize if any of those comments were directed towards any of my posts. I assure you I was not trying to be rude, and do encourage you to post here in the future.

As far as your children finding the loaded firearm, that is different than carrying. If I had kids I would store unloaded...for carrying I choose to chamber.

 

[Montezuma]

My point is that racking a firearm is something stupid you see in movies. It is something that dumb idiot direct felt added extra "drama" to the scene, but it has no place in the real world. ...at least not when you are encountering a real criminal that intends you or others harm.

Muscle memory is your friend. If you will practice removing your weapon from your holster and bringing the weapon to ready, then over time, you will learn how to properly. You just need to make sure that you are resting your trigger finger on the frame, under the slide, but above and outside of the trigger guard.

If you practice this and take a course in judgmental pistol shooting(JPS), then you should never have a problem carrying a weapon with a round in the chamber.

 

[RRGlock23]

To Chamber or Not to Chamber...

First and foremost- It is going to come down to your preference. All the forum debate will likely not influence you in one way or another. You've likely already made up your mind.

That being said, you should know the pros/cons of both prior to carrying in any way:

If you have the willpower and motivation to train in the Isralei method more power to you. When deployed successfully it is very fast and accurate. Like this guy:
YouTube- Israeli Instinctive Shooting 1

If you don't train train train you get this:

These videos are good example for us to know which one is better to have one in chamber or none in chamber. I rather to have one in chamber to save my life and self defense and protect our love one.

YouTube- Israeli Instinctive Shooting 1

I can understand how people were freaking if it will discharging and they rather none in chamber. But that guy israel died from shooters in Jewerly store, because of no ammo in chamber to ready shooting. :cray:

www.LiveLeak.com - Jewelery Store Shooting in Agra

 

[oldvet53]

13 in clip one in the pipe, iam proficent in all the weapons i own. i don' draw unless ready to shoot,don't try to grandstand, finger along frame untill ready to fire.:biggrin:

 

[marionandjohn]

So when I asked about chambering, I was really concerned about it. I am extremely safe with my handgun and always...always assume their is one in the round. I have 4 children that has only seen my gun once, they see my small safe in the truck but don't know the combo. If it's not on me its in there.

First let me say that I understand your view point on your children I have 2 myself and my wife was raised guns are bad they kill blah blah blah but I was not. I understand you wanting your children to stay safe with the guns but is what I have done is the same way I was raised and have personal experiences with it working. I am not, let me repeat AM NOT saying what you do is wrong but what I do is what I feel is right. My son is now 5 he shot my 22 pistol (big for him) first when he was 4. I am very open with my guns around my kids and wife (she now has her carry permit). Yes some people will say it is stupid to introduce kids to guns I feel the opposite. I have tought my son gun safety since he could understand what I was doing (he was about 2 or 3), when he shot my little pistol I was with him and had my hand on the gun and only 3 rounds in the weapon. He is no longer courious as to what the gun(s) do. He does now know how to clear a weapon and how to treat a weapon but he also knows the first thing he does when he sees a weapon is RUN as fast as he can to mommy or daddy. I was raised the same way and ran to my parents when my friend decided to show me his dads gun (he found it and his dad didnt know) I have unloaded and cleared and then cleared and double checked it was unloaded and left my weapon in the open where my son was playing. I hid behind the corner where he thought I left the house. As soon as he took notice to the weapon he ran to find mom and tell her then took her and showed her where it was. Again I am not saying what you are doing is wrong but I have found what I do to work for me. My daughter is not a year old yet so she has not been introduced to safe handling or firing of the weapons YET.

Not to mention just the other day my son came in crying from the play ground because another kid pointed his toy gun at my sons head. My son felt the fear because he knows about guns and what they do.

As far as leaving your pistol in your truck I have to disagree with that unless it is a safe that there is no way to take out. If some breaks into your truck that safe will be the first thing gone (I would think) weather your weapon is in it or not. When my weapon is not on me it is in my night stand mag in, not chambered. I am not sure why but I pefer it not chambered if its not on me. just how I feel.

I really hope that you will take my input with kids and think about it. As much as you want to protect your kids from guns they will be exposed sometime or another. They may or may not be the age you want them to be when you introduce them thats your choice and I feel you will choose what you find best. I pefer that when someone else tries to introduce my kids to guns that they will already know what to do and how to do it. If that means asking his friend to see the gun he just pulled out and clearing it and going to the parents then I feel confident he will. If he is not able to clear it out then he will know how to safely handle it till a parent or adult gets there. And please do not let a few (even if its me) ruin how you feel about this site. I truely believe this is the best "gun" site I have found and enjoy inputs from all corners for or against how I feel. You never know when that one jerk will say somthing that makes since because after all even a blind squirl gets a nut every now and then.

I will stop now that I relize how long of a post this turned out to be.

Be safe and God's speed