The only real reason anyone carries concealed.


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mikestone967 said:
No need for the foul mouth postings....


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Yeah! Only Oppspec is allowed to make foulmouthed postings:

opsspec1991 said:
Are you fing serious, are you trying to say the men and women who are major league baseball players and people in the space program didn’t in their younger years start out playing little league baseball, and constructing model rockets, which gave them the desire to further their education and become baseball stars and engineers and astronauts at NASA. Come on your smarter than that line of BS.
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Blueshell said:
I could not have said it better.

Back to topic: the only real reason to carry concealed is to dodge not being able to carry at all. This is because carrying concealed is an offensive act (supprise is an offensive tactic, not a defencive tactic) and civilians are not justified in using lethal force offensively.

Concealment is defencive only when being unarmed is the alternative.

Many dream up excuses for carrying concealed, such as fashion, but as such is still offencive, not defencive, behavior, all such reasons remain invalid.
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I joined this forum specifically to respond to this thread and this is my first post. I am a retired police officer and have carried concealed (on & off duty and as a civilian) for 40 years, I carry concealed now by choice and while in LE I was required to carry concealed when not in uniform. I would like to make a couple points:

1. Drawing from concealment is not considered an offensive act if you otherwise have a legal right to draw your weapon. (as in a response to a deadly force attack etc.)
2. I prefer people around me not know I am armed. Just recently, in Arizona, a man legally OCing had his gun stolen while in line at a MacDonald's! Had he been carrying concealed this would not have happened.
3. I have lived and worked in Open Carry states for over 40 years (AZ,NM, MI) and see relatively few people carrying openly. Why? Concealment just works better.
4. DUDE! you need Spell Check. You spelling of simple words is horrible! Those highlighted are just a few.
5. Your statement that the only reason to carry concealed is to dodge the law is an assumption. You know what they say about assuming!
 
nmpops said:
I joined this forum specifically to respond to this thread and this is my first post.
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Welcome to the forum :) We share a love for endless conversation, if not the same viewpoint. A toast, to our mutual hobby :smile:

nmpops said:
1. Drawing from concealment is not considered an offensive act if you otherwise have a legal right to draw your weapon. (as in a response to a deadly force attack etc.)
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Rather or not you otherwise have the right to draw is the very point in question. Advocates of "the element of surprise" forget that such retaliation is illegal.

nmpops said:
2. I prefer people around me not know I am armed.
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You proffer to employ counter attack, retaliation. I don't question that you proffer this, I call out it's validity.

nmpops said:
Just recently, in Arizona, a man legally OCing had his gun stolen while in line at a MacDonald's! Had he been carrying concealed this would not have happened.
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This guy? Suspect steals gun from victim at valley McDonald's | KSAZ

I would like to hear your opinion on retention holsters as a retired police officer, as the guy you just mentioned was using a pocket holster with no retention. Surly some perp made a move for your gun over those 40 years, or the gun of a fellow officer. Did a department you worked for issue level-zero retention holsters? If not, why not?

When I OC I use a level-2 retention holster, and I don't OC from my back pocket, either.

nmpops said:
3. I have lived and worked in Open Carry states for over 40 years (AZ,NM, MI) and see relatively few people carrying openly. Why? Concealment just works better.
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Concealment does work better for retaliation/counter-attack, yes. I don't contest this.

nmpops said:
4. DUDE! you need Spell Check. You spelling of simple words is horrible! Those highlighted are just a few.
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I use a spell check. The spellings you see are what Tapatalk's auto-correct insert. However, as a sign of good faith I can get on my laptop and go back to that post and see what Chrome would like to change. It would be a shame if a new guy like yourself started focusing on grammar and spelling over content while in an online forum.

While I correct my spelling, you may want to correct your claim about that man at McDonnalds.

nmpops said:
5. Your statement that the only reason to carry concealed is to dodge the law is an assumption.
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It's an argument, not an assumption, not an opinion. You may want to google the definitions of those words while I google their spellings :)
 
XD40scinNC said:
I'm still trying to figure out your position on OC, when you admit to CC to break the law.
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Civilians are only allowed to use lethal force for defense. OC is the only defensive carry style. CC is offense only, unless used to keep from being disarmed entirely by the law.

I don't see where the confusion is.
 
We were both wrong on McDonald's (I added an A, you added an N), Yes a prefer but I don't profer. Profer means to utter or express i.e. as in an opinion. Try shutting off Tapatalks auto correct, it sucks.
Never, in all my years in LE did I ever hear of anyone being charged with the crime of "Retaliation" because he drew a gun from concealment. If you can site case law on this please do. If you have the right to shot in self defense or defense of another, it does not matter one iota if the gun was concealed or not. BTW in Arizona, brushing you coat or shirt back to show your possible assailant your holstered weapon is LEGAL. In most states this would be brandishing We can argue laws all day but they change from state to state. For example, in New Mexico carrying a concealed, loaded firearm without a license in only a misdemeanor in some states its a felony.
 
Blueshell said:
Civilians are only allowed to use lethal force for defense. OC is the only defensive carry style. CC is offense only, unless used to keep from being disarmed entirely by the law.

I don't see where the confusion is.
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Where does this rule come from ? Can you cite a source? Police can only shoot in defensive situations also. Never was I trained or told to use a firearm offensively. Police do not operate under military rules of engagement.
 
Blueshell said:
Civilians are only allowed to use lethal force for defense. OC is the only defensive carry style. CC is offense only, unless used to keep from being disarmed entirely by the law.

I don't see where the confusion is.
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LEO's are only allowed to use lethal force for defense.
 
I don't see how offensive use versus defensive use is determined by mode of carry. It seems to me that the situation determines whether or not the action is defensive or offensive. The type of weapon or way of carrying it doesn't make the difference.

In a self-defense situation, let's say a couple of bad guys attack a couple of good guys. One good guy carries openly and the other good guy carries concealed. They both draw and shoot their bad guy attackers. Both good guys are shooting in self defense, not in offensive attack.

The only "retaliation" law I know about has to do with EEO workplace violations. If you mean retaliation as in revenge or vigilantism, then that still has to do with the situation, not the weapon.
 
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