The Case for Eternal Punishment


Ringo, I've seen your picture in your profile, you clearly aren't in middle school any longer, so stop with the nonsense we hear from middle schoolers, it's too juvenile. So chill with the 'backatcha' juvenile nonsense.

I know a river in Ohio caught fire one time, but lakes of fire? What a child like belief.

I do enjoy your follow up with Pascal's Wager, it is just a clear demonstration of how desperate you are, and how every-time you post it you concede your argument that your god exists. Pascal's Wager isn't an argument for why God exists and is really real. Pascal's Wager is, in fact, 100% disconnected from the question of whether God exists and is really real. Pascal's Wager offers no evidence for God's existence. But please continue, I just love it when those with nothing repeatedly validate that they have nothing.
 

Sounds like another tough one....



sinful nature is always hostile to God....

I love your repeated demonstrations of ignorance about atheists. You really are proud of your ignorance and cleave to it with a tenacity that can only be found in delusion.
 
I don't hate God. I don't have Vishnu, Buddha, Christ, Odin, Zeus, Poseidon, Osiris, Jarri, or even the Flying Spaghetti Monster. All are equally worthy and real in my eyes.

And as for the Bible not contradicting itself... ummm....
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Oldgrunt, buddy, I don't have a thin skin. But contending over the Word is pointless. Contention is of the devil. And those that use the Word contentiously are only serving the devil. I'll make this one last post here.

I'll give all of you a sign to watch for. This is straight out of the KJV Revelation chapter 11:
3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.
4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.
5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.
6 These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.
7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.
8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.
9 And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves.
10 And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.
11 And after three days and an half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.
12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.

Two prophets (men who prophesy) will protect Israel from the armies of the world for 1,260 days. Then they will be killed and the world will celebrate. After three days of their bodies laying in the street, they will rise again. Who will they be and how will this come about?
They will be two LDS Apostles. How it will come about - this is my best guess, and only a guess because I do not claim to know the mind of God. I think about the time Iran fully develops a nuke, Israel will give them a nuke right in the heart of Tehran. This is a sufficient act to piss of the world and cause the world to attack Israel. And then two LDS Apostles will go to defend Israel from the armies of the world. When that happens, the LDS church will face more persecution than ever before. You all will then have a choice, participate in that persecution, or recognize what is happening. To you Christians, I know right now you are scoffing at my claim that it will be two LDS Apostles. Who else could it be? You don't believe in modern day prophets. Just keep this in the back of your minds. To you agnostics, all I can say is, remember this and watch.
And now I'm done here. Remember this and watch. None of you is going to convince the other that you are right. Continue arguing if you wish. Condemn me all you want, it matters not to me. God is my judge, not you.
 
We, the people of the State of North Carolina, grateful to Almighty God, the Sovereign Ruler of Nations, for the preservation of the American Union and the existence of our civil, political and religious liberties, and acknowledging our dependence upon Him for the continuance of those blessings to us and our posterity, do, for the more certain security thereof and for the better government of this State, ordain and establish this Constitution.

sinful nature is always hostile to God....
 
I'm not saying the Bible is only full of myth and contradictions, there are some good parts of it as well. Parts that we would be better off remembering and practicing today.

9b471dded8788014d0e72b04480e304c.jpg




'Cause, you know... I wouldn't want to have a sinful nature by not obeying what the Bible says.
 
You seem to have lost your focus and fail to recognize that the bible was written by MEN. Fallible men with fears, phobias, and agendas.

Many of the 'accounts' of events were written centuries after the event, indicating it was verbal folklore, told time and time again, each time with details added or dropped, until someone finally wrote it down. Retelling stories always alters the story, even when it is retold immediately, spread out over centuries and generations with details forgotten and added, plus human nature to "embellish", I wonder if a witness to an event would even recognize the written version. Not to mention how many times it has been translated from one language to another, and by whom? Don't know exactly what that word means, make something up that they think 'fits'.

The bible is the very suspect work of man, full of contradictions, embellishments, errors in translation, and to give it anymore credence than Aesop's Fables, is frankly absurd.

Sure some stories match up (kinda) with other historical works, but even a blind pig finds an acorn now and then.

XD, I haven't lost my focus and, yes, I do realize the Bible was written by men, inspired men of God. 2 Tim. 3:16, 17, "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work. Considering all the translations that have been made of the Bible, something may have been lost, or added, to it. Yet, considering the time periods between the covers, and the myriad of people who have deemed themselves worthy to abridge it in any way, the different versions of the Bible remain remarkably consistent with each other. The different versions have been translated by "Biblical scholars" who are assumed to have the intelligence and knowledge to make such translations. I can't verify, or impeach, their qualifications but I do question that verbiage was used simply to "make something fit." I realize that you, and others, do not accept the Bible for your different reasons but I, and many like me, do accept it. I will not try to defend it in a hostile manner but can only say, "God said it - I believe it - That settles it." Although I do not accept Aesop's Fables as a religious book, I can easily say that I enjoyed it and do not feel the need to bash it. Remember The Ant and the Grasshopper? I like to think of myself as similar to the Ant and the Bible is what I am storing up. Hope you are not akin to the grasshopper. :smile:
 
Odd, I don't remember a mention of God or Christianity in the Constitution, and nary a mention of the Christian god in the Declaration either.

Nor where they pledged anything to anyone other than each other in the Declaration of Independence...



We, the people of the State of Ohio, grateful to Almighty God for our freedom, to secure its blessings and promote our common welfare, do establish this Constitution.





sinful nature is always hostile to God....
 
My question to the non-believers in Jesus, is, will you submit to the Anti-Christ and that will probably be the Mahdi and the Islamics, or will you be beheaded and face Hell? Either way it's a lose-lose situation for you. Your only choice is Jesus, The Anti-Christ, or Hell. What will you do? What will you do?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3CpyJ3-3mBU
 
We, the people of the State of Ohio, grateful to Almighty God for our freedom, to secure its blessings and promote our common welfare, do establish this Constitution.

Farmhood said:
It is truely[sic] shameful that our founding documents are an insult to you Sir...and The Christ they pledged their allegiance to...

So you're saying our "founding documents" [plural] for the United States aren't the Constitution and Declaration of Independence (c.1776)titution of Ohio [singular] in 1803?

I guess we were godless until Ohio came along, right?
Or, is it that Ohioans are the only ones "right with god"?
 
My question to the non-believers in Jesus, is, will you submit to the Anti-Christ and that will probably be the Mahdi and the Islamics, or will you be beheaded and face Hell? Either way it's a lose-lose situation for you. Your only choice is Jesus, The Anti-Christ, or Hell. What will you do? What will you do?

Folks, this is what the smart people call a "logical fallacy"; specifically the "false dilemma". It happens when only two (or a limited number of) options are presented when more options are viable. In this case it's presented as 'either this or that'.

What will I do?
Since there is no mythical sky monster called the anti-Christ and there is no Hell, they are figments of primitive imagination.
So, it's simple. I won't submit to any of the mythical creatures and any fanatical religious zealots of any stripe (Muslim, Christian, or Hindu) is going to find out what the term 'sucking chest wound' means.
 
Folks, this is what the smart people call a "logical fallacy"; specifically the "false dilemma". It happens when only two (or a limited number of) options are presented when more options are viable. In this case it's presented as 'either this or that'.

What will I do?
Since there is no mythical sky monster called the anti-Christ and there is no Hell, they are figments of primitive imagination.
So, it's simple. I won't submit to any of the mythical creatures and any fanatical religious zealots of any stripe (Muslim, Christian, or Hindu) is going to find out what the term 'sucking chest wound' means.



It is hard...isn't it? Fighting against the truth is a losing battle.

sinful nature is always hostile to God....
 
So you're saying our "founding documents" [plural] for the United States aren't the Constitution and Declaration of Independence (c.1776)titution of Ohio [singular] in 1803?

I guess we were godless until Ohio came along, right?
Or, is it that Ohioans are the only ones "right with god"?



Yes they are...but it is amazing that I can read what I speak of and you clearly deny it.



The unanimous Declaration of the thirteen united States of America,

When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.--Such has been the patient sufferance of these Colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government. The history of the present King of Great Britain is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these States. To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid world.

He has refused his Assent to Laws, the most wholesome and necessary for the public good.
He has forbidden his Governors to pass Laws of immediate and pressing importance, unless suspended in their operation till his Assent should be obtained; and when so suspended, he has utterly neglected to attend to them.
He has refused to pass other Laws for the accommodation of large districts of people, unless those people would relinquish the right of Representation in the Legislature, a right inestimable to them and formidable to tyrants only.
He has called together legislative bodies at places unusual, uncomfortable, and distant from the depository of their public Records, for the sole purpose of fatiguing them into compliance with his measures.
He has dissolved Representative Houses repeatedly, for opposing with manly firmness his invasions on the rights of the people.
He has refused for a long time, after such dissolutions, to cause others to be elected; whereby the Legislative powers, incapable of Annihilation, have returned to the People at large for their exercise; the State remaining in the mean time exposed to all the dangers of invasion from without, and convulsions within.
He has endeavoured to prevent the population of these States; for that purpose obstructing the Laws for Naturalization of Foreigners; refusing to pass others to encourage their migrations hither, and raising the conditions of new Appropriations of Lands.
He has obstructed the Administration of Justice, by refusing his Assent to Laws for establishing Judiciary powers.
He has made Judges dependent on his Will alone, for the tenure of their offices, and the amount and payment of their salaries.
He has erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harrass our people, and eat out their substance.
He has kept among us, in times of peace, Standing Armies without the Consent of our legislatures.
He has affected to render the Military independent of and superior to the Civil power.
He has combined with others to subject us to a jurisdiction foreign to our constitution, and unacknowledged by our laws; giving his Assent to their Acts of pretended Legislation:
For Quartering large bodies of armed troops among us:
For protecting them, by a mock Trial, from punishment for any Murders which they should commit on the Inhabitants of these States:
For cutting off our Trade with all parts of the world:
For imposing Taxes on us without our Consent:
For depriving us in many cases, of the benefits of Trial by Jury:
For transporting us beyond Seas to be tried for pretended offences
For abolishing the free System of English Laws in a neighbouring Province, establishing therein an Arbitrary government, and enlarging its Boundaries so as to render it at once an example and fit instrument for introducing the same absolute rule into these Colonies:
For taking away our Charters, abolishing our most valuable Laws, and altering fundamentally the Forms of our Governments:
For suspending our own Legislatures, and declaring themselves invested with power to legislate for us in all cases whatsoever.
He has abdicated Government here, by declaring us out of his Protection and waging War against us.
He has plundered our seas, ravaged our Coasts, burnt our towns, and destroyed the lives of our people.
He is at this time transporting large Armies of foreign Mercenaries to compleat the works of death, desolation and tyranny, already begun with circumstances of Cruelty & perfidy scarcely paralleled in the most barbarous ages, and totally unworthy the Head of a civilized nation.
He has constrained our fellow Citizens taken Captive on the high Seas to bear Arms against their Country, to become the executioners of their friends and Brethren, or to fall themselves by their Hands.
He has excited domestic insurrections amongst us, and has endeavoured to bring on the inhabitants of our frontiers, the merciless Indian Savages, whose known rule of warfare, is an undistinguished destruction of all ages, sexes and conditions.

In every stage of these Oppressions We have Petitioned for Redress in the most humble terms: Our repeated Petitions have been answered only by repeated injury. A Prince whose character is thus marked by every act which may define a Tyrant, is unfit to be the ruler of a free people.

Nor have We been wanting in attentions to our Brittish brethren. We have warned them from time to time of attempts by their legislature to extend an unwarrantable jurisdiction over us. We have reminded them of the circumstances of our emigration and settlement here. We have appealed to their native justice and magnanimity, and we have conjured them by the ties of our common kindred to disavow these usurpations, which, would inevitably interrupt our connections and correspondence. They too have been deaf to the voice of justice and of consanguinity. We must, therefore, acquiesce in the necessity, which denounces our Separation, and hold them, as we hold the rest of mankind, Enemies in War, in Peace Friends.

We, therefore, the Representatives of the united States of America, in General Congress, Assembled, appealing to the Supreme Judge of the world for the rectitude of our intentions, do, in the Name, and by Authority of the good People of these Colonies, solemnly publish and declare, That these United Colonies are, and of Right ought to be Free and Independent States; that they are Absolved from all Allegiance to the British Crown, and that all political connection between them and the State of Great Britain, is and ought to be totally dissolved; and that as Free and Independent States, they have full Power to levy War, conclude Peace, contract Alliances, establish Commerce, and to do all other Acts and Things which Independent States may of right do. And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes and our sacred Honor.
 
My question to the non-believers in Jesus, is, will you submit to the Anti-Christ and that will probably be the Mahdi and the Islamics
God is using the nations of Islam as pawns to bring about the treaty that will begin the 7 years of the Tribulation, aka the Time of Jacobs Trouble & the 70 th Week of Daniel. Believing God, the inner ring of nations surrounding ISRAEL will "VERY SOON" be totally devastated in the Psalm 83 war to encompass the total destruction of Damascus of Isaiah 17, then all but 1/6 th of the invaders (outer ring of nations) of Ezekiel 38-39 will be killed. Be assured that there won't be enough of Islam left to be a threat to anyone. In the Book of Revelation there is no mention of anything to do with Islam, period. Do not add, subtract, or speculate. Don't let anyone tickle your ears, God means what He says and says what He means. In John 5:43 Jesus says, pertaining to ISRAEL ..."I have come in my Father's name, and you do not accept me; but if someone else comes in his own name, you will accept him". ISRAEL will accept the antichrist until he desecrates the new rebuilt temple. ISRAEL will by no means accept the antichrist as the Messiah if he is anything even close to being ISLAMIC!

MARANATHA! :victory:​
 
I wish you and Ringo would post a pdf of your posts so I could download and print it out. Lots of good stuff.



Yes they are...but it is amazing that I can read what I speak of and you clearly deny it.



The unanimous Declaration of the thirteen united States of America,

When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.--Such has been the patient sufferance of these Colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government. The history of the present King of Great Britain is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these States. To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid world.

He has refused his Assent to Laws, the most wholesome and necessary for the public good.
He has forbidden his Governors to pass Laws of immediate and pressing importance, unless suspended in their operation till his Assent should be obtained; and when so suspended, he has utterly neglected to attend to them.
He has refused to pass other Laws for the accommodation of large districts of people, unless those people would relinquish the right of Representation in the Legislature, a right inestimable to them and formidable to tyrants only.
He has called together legislative bodies at places unusual, uncomfortable, and distant from the depository of their public Records, for the sole purpose of fatiguing them into compliance with his measures.
He has dissolved Representative Houses repeatedly, for opposing with manly firmness his invasions on the rights of the people.
He has refused for a long time, after such dissolutions, to cause others to be elected; whereby the Legislative powers, incapable of Annihilation, have returned to the People at large for their exercise; the State remaining in the mean time exposed to all the dangers of invasion from without, and convulsions within.
He has endeavoured to prevent the population of these States; for that purpose obstructing the Laws for Naturalization of Foreigners; refusing to pass others to encourage their migrations hither, and raising the conditions of new Appropriations of Lands.
He has obstructed the Administration of Justice, by refusing his Assent to Laws for establishing Judiciary powers.
He has made Judges dependent on his Will alone, for the tenure of their offices, and the amount and payment of their salaries.
He has erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harrass our people, and eat out their substance.
He has kept among us, in times of peace, Standing Armies without the Consent of our legislatures.
He has affected to render the Military independent of and superior to the Civil power.
He has combined with others to subject us to a jurisdiction foreign to our constitution, and unacknowledged by our laws; giving his Assent to their Acts of pretended Legislation:
For Quartering large bodies of armed troops among us:
For protecting them, by a mock Trial, from punishment for any Murders which they should commit on the Inhabitants of these States:
For cutting off our Trade with all parts of the world:
For imposing Taxes on us without our Consent:
For depriving us in many cases, of the benefits of Trial by Jury:
For transporting us beyond Seas to be tried for pretended offences
For abolishing the free System of English Laws in a neighbouring Province, establishing therein an Arbitrary government, and enlarging its Boundaries so as to render it at once an example and fit instrument for introducing the same absolute rule into these Colonies:
For taking away our Charters, abolishing our most valuable Laws, and altering fundamentally the Forms of our Governments:
For suspending our own Legislatures, and declaring themselves invested with power to legislate for us in all cases whatsoever.
He has abdicated Government here, by declaring us out of his Protection and waging War against us.
He has plundered our seas, ravaged our Coasts, burnt our towns, and destroyed the lives of our people.
He is at this time transporting large Armies of foreign Mercenaries to compleat the works of death, desolation and tyranny, already begun with circumstances of Cruelty & perfidy scarcely paralleled in the most barbarous ages, and totally unworthy the Head of a civilized nation.
He has constrained our fellow Citizens taken Captive on the high Seas to bear Arms against their Country, to become the executioners of their friends and Brethren, or to fall themselves by their Hands.
He has excited domestic insurrections amongst us, and has endeavoured to bring on the inhabitants of our frontiers, the merciless Indian Savages, whose known rule of warfare, is an undistinguished destruction of all ages, sexes and conditions.

In every stage of these Oppressions We have Petitioned for Redress in the most humble terms: Our repeated Petitions have been answered only by repeated injury. A Prince whose character is thus marked by every act which may define a Tyrant, is unfit to be the ruler of a free people.

Nor have We been wanting in attentions to our Brittish brethren. We have warned them from time to time of attempts by their legislature to extend an unwarrantable jurisdiction over us. We have reminded them of the circumstances of our emigration and settlement here. We have appealed to their native justice and magnanimity, and we have conjured them by the ties of our common kindred to disavow these usurpations, which, would inevitably interrupt our connections and correspondence. They too have been deaf to the voice of justice and of consanguinity. We must, therefore, acquiesce in the necessity, which denounces our Separation, and hold them, as we hold the rest of mankind, Enemies in War, in Peace Friends.

We, therefore, the Representatives of the united States of America, in General Congress, Assembled, appealing to the Supreme Judge of the world for the rectitude of our intentions, do, in the Name, and by Authority of the good People of these Colonies, solemnly publish and declare, That these United Colonies are, and of Right ought to be Free and Independent States; that they are Absolved from all Allegiance to the British Crown, and that all political connection between them and the State of Great Britain, is and ought to be totally dissolved; and that as Free and Independent States, they have full Power to levy War, conclude Peace, contract Alliances, establish Commerce, and to do all other Acts and Things which Independent States may of right do. And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes and our sacred Honor.
 
Yes they are...but it is amazing that I can read what I speak of and you clearly deny it.

The unanimous Declaration of the thirteen united States of America,

When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.
Thank you sir, for proving my point that the Christian God does not exist in the Constitution, please let me know to what address you want me to send my remittance for your hard work and support of my position.
 
My question to the non-believers in Jesus, is, will you submit to the Anti-Christ and that will probably be the Mahdi and the Islamics, or will you be beheaded and face Hell? Either way it's a lose-lose situation for you. Your only choice is Jesus, The Anti-Christ, or Hell. What will you do? What will you do?

Thanks for the laugh. The anti-christ is a bogus and imaginary as the other imaginary christ. You can't prove bull sh!t by painting it with another coat of bull sh!t.
 

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