Signs of the End of the Age & The Last Generation
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Oldgrunt
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The term "biogenesis" was made by Henry Charlton Bastian to mean the generation of a life form from nonliving materials. Thomas Henry Huxley chose the term "abiogenesis" and redefined biogenesis for life arising from preexisting life.
Take whichever definition you would like but I much prefer the definition of arising from preexisting life.
Your exception to the term "nothing matters" is noted and was not meant as a personal insult. As I said before, if one does not believe in God's laws, they (collectively or individually) would feel no necessity to honor them. You have been on here long enough to know exactly what I am talking about. You may be the exception to those who choose to ignore God and yet do not violate His laws. Since you have said you were once in the church, you may still maintain an adherence to the laws He laid out for us. If one doesn't believe in God, I would dare say reading and following them may not have the same (if any) meaning to them that they do to me, you, and others. Still, I maintain one has to have a yardstick with which to measure their own morality and lives. Otherwise, who is to say who is wrong about anything?
Oldgrunt
Well-known member
XD: That response is BS and you know it. First of all, I was talking about the people here at home, not the Middle East. What is festering there is them following a false god who advocates the killings they are doing as dictated by their Prophet. If you are unable to make that distinction, I have given you way too much credit. I know how much you enjoy constantly arguing that God doesn't exist, believers are lunatics, etc. but, one day, you will know the truth. You continually curse and deny God and have become absolutely rabid on the subject. It doesn't matter how much you do not believe, there is coming a day when you will absolutely believe, when you meet Jesus Christ, face to face. On that day, you will relive each and every time you cursed Him and every denial. XD, I seriously hope that before that day comes, you have one last opportunity to ask for forgiveness. You can laugh and joke all you want now, but later may be too late.
XD40scinNC
New member
First I did understand that you meant here at home...
But you said;
Where you referenced the worlds problems, and submitted your solution.
Now the muslims are following a false god, where last week you said
But then you turned your attention to demeaning me, and there it is again (at over half your post dedicated to)..../drum roll/... Pascal's Wager.
Oldgrunt
Well-known member
XD: First of all, let me say this. I don't know you nor do you know me. We might meet sometime, have coffee and a general conversation, sans religion. We might hit it off on good footing and never have any difficulties or cross words. On the other hand, when it comes to religion, I find you to be the most antagonistic person I have ever known, and hostile against religion, even in the face of historical and scientific proof that God does indeed exist. The Bible, which you seem to abhor, proves itself everyday but you deny it being of any consequence to us and I will admit to not understanding people who think like that. With your thinking and protestations against God, I seriously wonder (or at least, hope) if you may not be as much of an unbeliever, but one who delights in arguing and refuting statements of others simply for enjoyment. If that is not the case, I seriously have no idea why you are so adamant in your unbelief.
I did say I believe Muslims believe in a god. I can not say if he does or does not exist but, if he does exist, he is a false god. Do you believe Satan exists? Satan, or Lucifer, was supposed to be the fairest of all angels but defied God and wanted to usurp His power. Do you think he believes in God? I think so and I am confident that both exist. But, you consider all that to be fairy tales. I don't know what it would take to make you believe in God. I wish I had an answer that you could accept and understand but you are the only one able to change yourself. You are not unique by any means. There are others on here with similar thoughts but, there again, I can not understand those who deny God in face of what I consider to be staggering proof of His existence.
XD, in any argument you have about religion, Pascal's Wager, if not specifically mentioned, is always implied and a factor one can't separate through any discussions. It is always there whether you recognize it or not. The purpose of religion is the salvation of one's soul. Jesus Christ made His sacrifice to atone for us all and that sacrifice also implies the Wager. If this, then that; if not that, then this. Always comes out, even if not by name.
BTW, I do not intentionally try to demean or insult people but I, like you, can, and do, get carried away at times and say something that would have been better left unsaid. Mea culpa.
I did say I believe Muslims believe in a god. I can not say if he does or does not exist but, if he does exist, he is a false god. Do you believe Satan exists? Satan, or Lucifer, was supposed to be the fairest of all angels but defied God and wanted to usurp His power. Do you think he believes in God? I think so and I am confident that both exist. But, you consider all that to be fairy tales. I don't know what it would take to make you believe in God. I wish I had an answer that you could accept and understand but you are the only one able to change yourself. You are not unique by any means. There are others on here with similar thoughts but, there again, I can not understand those who deny God in face of what I consider to be staggering proof of His existence.
XD, in any argument you have about religion, Pascal's Wager, if not specifically mentioned, is always implied and a factor one can't separate through any discussions. It is always there whether you recognize it or not. The purpose of religion is the salvation of one's soul. Jesus Christ made His sacrifice to atone for us all and that sacrifice also implies the Wager. If this, then that; if not that, then this. Always comes out, even if not by name.
BTW, I do not intentionally try to demean or insult people but I, like you, can, and do, get carried away at times and say something that would have been better left unsaid. Mea culpa.
Whether or not you feel that I am the exception to the rule really doesn't address the odd and logically unsupportable belief that a person thinks "nothing matters" if they don't believe in a particular god. All I'm saying is that it is a very divisive and dismissive accusation to make against so many people.
XD40scinNC
New member
First, we could probably get along well over a cup of coffee or a beer. Every Monday the wife and I go to our favorite craft brewery where the same group of people also go every Monday because it is $2.50 pint night. About half retired folk, the others after work, the same group every week. We call it our 'Cheers', cause everybody does know your name. There is a very fundy preacher (does river baptisms), and some who seem very involved in the baptist church. Let's just say we all leave our fly zipped, and enjoy the company (and beer).
Second, I probably do come across as antagisnistic for several reasons. I believe in speaking my mind, and clearly as to not be misunderstood. And for the fact that I really seethe at times when I see people like Billy Graham in TV commercials (during the 2013 amendment 1 vote in NC) telling people to vote to discriminate against people who have never harmed them, based on what... gods love or goodness.. give me a effing break. Religion is the greatest man made threat to our freedoms and future.
Now for the quoted part above.... Of course I don't believe in satan and the other 'non-human' characters from your bible, but you kinda understand that already.
Now look at the bolded test. Make? Really you want something to MAKE me believe? What like the threat of eternal torment, or a muslim holding a knife to my throat (which by the way I did not answer, not because it was a hard question as you accused, but totally irrelevant). When you used the word 'make', that is very telling of your mindset. You can 'make' a small child brush their teeth before bed, but you will have to repeat that every night, or you can 'cause' them to want to brush their teeth by showing them the benefit.
Now what would "cause" someone to believe? I can't really say, primarily because those trying to prove the existence of their god has to date yet to come up with anything. Over the centuries, billions of people have tried, some dedicating their life to the quest, and..... nada..
I disagree that fear (a.k.a Pascal's Wager) needs to be injected from your side of the debate, and have had discussions on different forums where theists express their views, and hope I or another person would have a change of heart, without fear (hell, answering to the 'man', etc., etc.)
Keep in mind that story of Jesus was written decades after the event, after the story had been retold orally thousands and thousands of times. Every time it is retold, the story changes or is embellished, either inadvertently, or deliberately. Going with the assumption a 100% human named Jesus did lived, he could have just pissed off the wrong person and was executed. Wouldn't be the first or the last time.
Second, I probably do come across as antagisnistic for several reasons. I believe in speaking my mind, and clearly as to not be misunderstood. And for the fact that I really seethe at times when I see people like Billy Graham in TV commercials (during the 2013 amendment 1 vote in NC) telling people to vote to discriminate against people who have never harmed them, based on what... gods love or goodness.. give me a effing break. Religion is the greatest man made threat to our freedoms and future.
Now for the quoted part above.... Of course I don't believe in satan and the other 'non-human' characters from your bible, but you kinda understand that already.
Now look at the bolded test. Make? Really you want something to MAKE me believe? What like the threat of eternal torment, or a muslim holding a knife to my throat (which by the way I did not answer, not because it was a hard question as you accused, but totally irrelevant). When you used the word 'make', that is very telling of your mindset. You can 'make' a small child brush their teeth before bed, but you will have to repeat that every night, or you can 'cause' them to want to brush their teeth by showing them the benefit.
Now what would "cause" someone to believe? I can't really say, primarily because those trying to prove the existence of their god has to date yet to come up with anything. Over the centuries, billions of people have tried, some dedicating their life to the quest, and..... nada..
I disagree that fear (a.k.a Pascal's Wager) needs to be injected from your side of the debate, and have had discussions on different forums where theists express their views, and hope I or another person would have a change of heart, without fear (hell, answering to the 'man', etc., etc.)
Keep in mind that story of Jesus was written decades after the event, after the story had been retold orally thousands and thousands of times. Every time it is retold, the story changes or is embellished, either inadvertently, or deliberately. Going with the assumption a 100% human named Jesus did lived, he could have just pissed off the wrong person and was executed. Wouldn't be the first or the last time.
Oldgrunt
Well-known member
Greg: If you think there aren't people out in the world that think nothing matters, you must have led a sheltered life. You seem to believe in the basic goodness of man, which all too many times is not good at all. There are people in this world who are totally amoral and will do anything they want, regardless of gods, rules and regulations, and the damage they may inflict on others. Prisons are full of them. That is fact and totally supportable. I still maintain, without adherence to God's laws, or some other standard which leads to a socialized and moral society, there will be those who have little regard for anything and will not hesitate to do anything they wish. I made no particular inference that you might be part of that group but you seem to have taken it personally. Apparently, things do matter to you and, in my own thoughts, that may be true because you were a member of the church for a while and what you learned there may still be guiding you. Once God becomes known to a person, I feel that it is impossible to dismiss Him from your mind. You may give up on Him temporarily but I daresay He has not given up on you.
Oldgrunt
Well-known member
SR9: XD can be a handful and he dearly loves to argue. He would argue with a sign post and I agree he wants to be right but that is what makes these "discussions" worthwhile. He is not a waste of time, etc. He, whether he believes it or not, is also one of God's children and, as such, worth the time and effort in sparring with him. Who knows, maybe someone will say something that will register with him and he will realize God exists and that he has been wrong. There is always hope. And remember, the Bible says anyone bringing a person to Christ covers a multitude of sins.
Ringo
A WATCHMAN
I Have to disagree. Here are just a "few" Scriptures as to why.
Psalm 81:12
And I send them away in the enmity of their heart, They walk in their own counsels.
Romans 1:28
Furthermore, since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, He gave them up to a depraved mind, to do what should not be done.
Psalm 81:12
So I gave them up unto their own hearts' lust. God's Spirit will not always strive with men (Genesis 6:3). After a time, if they persist in evil courses and disobedience to his commands, He "gives them up," withdraws from them, leaves them to themselves, to the "lust," or rather "stubbornness" of their own hearts - to their own perverse wills and imaginations. And they walked in their own counsels ( Jeremiah 7:24). If God no longer guides their thoughts and enlightens their understandings, they can but follow their own foolish counsels. This result is inevitable.
XD40scinNC
New member
OOOO000000oooooo Dr. Phil... Really :blink:
I must also bring to your attention that while you respond with insults and name calling, I really can't recall that you have ever attempted to counter something you disagree with, with reason or facts, merely name calling and insults. Is there a reason for that?
And when your are right, you are a right fighter. OG is a right fighter as he sincerely believes he is right. Sadly you (and a few others) can only muster insults, taunts and name calling. I have exponentially more respect for OG because than you because he tries and he is sincere in what he posts, while you and a few others clearly demonstrate your lack of character and/or intellect with school yard taunts, insults and name calling. Is that how you choose to represent your wonderful perfect god?
Of course there are people who think nothing matters. I've not said otherwise. All I've challenged is your blanket accusation concerning a lack of belief in your god equating to a belief that nothing matters.
There are good people and bad people who fall into both categories (that is, those who hold your religious beliefs and those who don't.)
Oldgrunt
Well-known member
First, let me say, He is OUR God, yours and mine. You may choose to not accept Him but that is your prerogative and He will not go away or be consigned to strictly fictional tales. Now, if people do not have some form of morality with which to live their lives, and choose to do as they see fit in any circumstance, to them, obviously nothing matters. They consider themselves free to indulge in any activities they please and to disregard the social mores of others. Yes, there are good and bad people, regardless of my religious beliefs. But, by what measure do you judge them to be bad or good? Religious people do sin and, on occasion, bad people do good things. Isn't it necessary to have definitive boundaries with which to contain our societal behavior? To me, what better way is there than to follow God's laws? Without casting aspersions at you, I have found that those who complain the most about God's laws are those who are unwilling to follow them, for whatever reason, and are overtly hostile in dealing with people who do believe in Him.
txfilmmaker
Member
Truly, God only knows. I think that many who protest so much are more likely to embrace God (at some point) than those who are apathetic. Remember Paul's condition before God met with him.
Then there is Josh McDowell. As a young man, he considered himself an agnostic. He truly believed that Christianity was worthless. However, when challenged to intellectually examine the claims of Christianity, Josh discovered compelling, overwhelming evidence for the reliability of the Christian faith. After trusting in Jesus Christ as Savior and Lord, Josh’s life changed dramatically as he experienced the power of God’s love.
CS Lewis was a pretty determined Atheist.
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I'm praying that God will make Himself real to XD40 and Greg. And others of course.
Here is the story of another atheist's conversion.
How an Atheist Found God - Why the Change - What Facts Led to Believing in God
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SR9
New member
I was watching the 700 Club today and someone wrote in asking about how to handle a atheist that wants to argue about God and Jesus. They said ignore the atheist, be cause you can't argue them into Heaven, nor in the end, will they be able to argue their own way in.
I would be willing to bet that if we ignore them on this website, they would either go away, turn on each other, or explode from pent up gas.
I would be willing to bet that if we ignore them on this website, they would either go away, turn on each other, or explode from pent up gas.
I agree that if people have no morals they will be, at the end of the day, sh*tty people that ruin things for others.
Still, that doesn't address the blanket accusation you've made concerning belief in a particular god meaning that a person believes that nothing matters.
XD40scinNC
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