Regarding Freddie Gray and the Baltimore Police cover up
- Thread starter JimTh
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Firefighterchen
OC for Tactical Advantage
This forum has many sub forums...like this one which is "Leo encounters". While it's impossible to stop politics from getting into the actual gun sections, you are better off staying in those sub forums if you want more gun stuff.
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BluesStringer
Les Brers
So when was the last time you had a clue about how DAs, SAs, AGs or grand juries go about the processes of investigating and indicting someone?
Just exactly like I said I thought would happen (here and here), Mosby referred the case to the grand jury rather than face a single judge in a probable cause hearing. The grand jury indicted all six officers on serious felony charges. They kept the 2nd degree murder charge against Goodson and the involuntary manslaughter charge against four of the others. They dropped the false imprisonment charges, but all three who were previously accused of that charge will still face charges of illegal arrest based on the knife being legal in MD/Baltimore. Dropping one charge and replacing it with a slightly lower-grade charge is hardly a "defeat" for Mosby or any kind of substantial win for the six cops considering that all of the highest charges were sustained by the grand jury.
So all the "acceptable" processes have been fulfilled by Mosby, and all six cops are either going to trial, or will cop a plea, or maybe trade testimony against some for their own immunity. Some combination thereof could emerge for one or more of them too. So everybody should be fine with the charges now, right? This is the exact same process that got Darren Wilson off the hook without having to defend himself against any evidence contrary to him doing everything just right, but the grand jury in this case did not come to that conclusion concerning these six officers. Any continued talk or suggestion of these cops being railroaded by a racially-motivated, agenda-driven prosecutor will be met with the truth that such talk represents hypocrisy of the first order.
Blues
BluesStringer
Les Brers
Under the heading of, "Insert gratuitous highly-racialized commentary to distract from 6 thug cops who got indicted by the grand jury yesterday here" category! Good grief, have you no shame at all???
What the heck does this have to do with "Regarding Freddie Gray?" I listened to that whole idiot-screed and not one single mention of Gray, the cops who killed him, or even the name "Baltimore" in the whole thing. Not even a date of when it was first aired, so it's just as likely that it has nothing to do with the Gray killing as that it has any relationship at all to the topic of this thread.
The height of confusion on this board is who are the bad guys and who ain't. It ain't Freddy Gray in this case, it's 6 thug cops. The goal of the post I'm replying to was not to say anything about the "truth" of the Gray case, it was distract from that truth.
Blues
SR9
New member
What a bunch of morons there are running Baltimore. In the last month there have been 35 murders there. That is unheard of. Do you realize that at the rate if in New York City there would have been 3,500 people killed. Baltimore has about 850,000 people, and NYC about 8 1/2 million. do the math.
Everybody in Baltimore from the mayor on down should be fired, and especially that Mosby d**khead.
Everybody in Baltimore from the mayor on down should be fired, and especially that Mosby d**khead.
bofh
Banned
As of the time of this post, it's 38 for the month of May and 111 for the year-to-date, see Baltimore Homicides - baltimoresun.com.
I did the math, 850,000 x 10 = 8,500,000, which would theoretically make it 380 for the month or 1110 for the year-to-date. I am not sure how you get to that 35,000 number, which is close to twice the annual nation-wide homicide rate.
Deanimator
New member
S&W645
NRA Life Member
Now some more info has come out that paints the DA in a bad light. Seems that she ( Mosby ) is the one who told the cops that they needed to target that area. And she has been requested to remove herself from the case. Or be removed as she is likely to be called as a witness in the case. Marilyn Mosby under fire after appearance at Prince gig - CNN.com
BluesStringer
Les Brers
From the link:
1) Did Vincent Bugliosi benefit financially and politically from prosecuting the Manson clan? Yes. Greatly on both counts. Mosby's position is an elected one. Part of winning that election is a salary that goes with the position. She benefits financially every time she goes to work, whether or not she's prosecuting cops. She benefits politically by doing her job, whether or not her job involves prosecuting cops.
2) Really? That's a conflict of interest? Pffft.
3) Says that her "staff" may be called as witnesses, not Mosby herself, but both she and her staff are under a conflict of interest for having "investigated the case" that they're busy prosecuting? If there's any conflict of interest there, it's between various laws, not between the law and the people whose job it is to prosecute violations of them.
4) Every public official "could be" the subject of a civil claim related to carrying out the duties of their job. In most cases related to law enforcement though, qualified immunity protects them from being found responsible for whatever civil damages are being sought. If Baltimore and/or Maryland doesn't use qualified immunity, good, sue away and let the chips fall where they may, but I fail to see how it's a conflict of interest that a *possible* future suit may ensue out of Mosby's decision to prosecute a criminal case that very clearly has a strong basis in the law.
5) Again, Mosby is a politician. She is an elected official. The only reason anyone knows who donated how much to her campaign is because of disclosure laws that both the recipient and the donor obviously complied with. If there's no conflict of interest in receiving or giving a donation between two people working in the same jurisdiction, how can that same tangential relationship suddenly be converted to a conflict of interest just because their respective jobs bring them together after the fact?
Also, concerning this item, I heard the father of the attorney in question, who is also a well-known attorney in Baltimore, say in an interview that he was the one who made the donation, not his partner-son. They have the same name except for a "Jr." or a "III" or whatever after the son's name. Not saying I know that to be true, just that that's what I heard his ol' man say.
Whatever, the link is almost a month old. The conflict of interest filing is more than a month old. Not sure why media outlets are just now taking notice of the particulars of the filing. Must be a slow news cycle, because there's nothing particularly compelling in the complaints, and it's stale "news" anyway.
All that said, I will be amazed if Mosby ever argues or speaks a single word in court in this case. She's woefully inexperienced in murder/manslaughter cases, and she has a whole department full of highly-qualified attorneys who can, and should, run this case in her stead.
She now has the cover of the grand jury indictments. Are all of the grand jurors' relationships in the community going to be scrutinized for conflicts of interest too? Are any of them going to be sued by the cops? I'd say the GJ indictments took the wind out of any lawsuit sails that might have had some semblance of validity to them before the indictments were handed down.
Blues
SR9
New member
Not only was Mosby the one that instituted the crack down, but that district is the district that her husband represents on Baltimore City Council. May I suggest she did so at his request. So to me the this is all her and her husbands fault. They should both be fired. There is not way she should be prosecuting this case. She should be prosecuted in this case.
vernsimpson
New member
mappow
New member
Sooooo your local rep is told by his peeps that they're tired of the crime in the area he represents. He goes through channels to step up policing of the area. And you say they should be prosecuted?
Believe me, I think Mosby should not hold that position. She also incited criminal behavior. She further more will not release the autopsy report possibly vindicating the LEO's. Is she a piece of ****, yeah dam straight she is. But I don't believe she should be prosecuted because she wanted to clean up a area. NOW then possible prosecuting her under RICO for aiding and abetting the criminal element is another story.
SR9
New member
The point I was trying to make was she and Hubby were responsible for the crack down , but then put the blame on the cops when they did.
BluesStringer
Les Brers
Are the Baltimore Six the only cops who participated in the initiative? I'll go out on a limb and say no they weren't.
None of them are charged with participating in a crackdown on crime, they're charged with crimes they are alleged to have committed, namely, 2nd degree depraved heart murder, manslaughter, second degree assault, criminal negligence, reckless endangerment, misconduct in office and false imprisonment. And that's no longer just Mosby saying that, it's now the grand jury that you yourself said she had "bypassed." Sounds like a half dozen freakin' choir boys and girls, don't it though?
Before anyone could be prosecuted for participating in a crackdown on crime, all of those charges would have to be the result of having abused, denied medical treatment to, and eventually killed a criminal, but that day all Freddie Gray was, was a law abiding citizen who didn't want to be hassled by the cops, so he took off when he saw them. The last words anyone heard him say were those same cops, and "I can't breathe" and "Help me" were almost assuredly amongst the words they heard. They ignored his pleas. Then they Link Removed about how they got him medical attention "immediately" after noticing that he "suffered a medical emergency." Why there's no falsifying reports charges in that list is beyond me, but maybe that's an element of misconduct in office.
If cops sworn to serve and protect can't do any better during a crackdown on crime than to commit crimes themselves during that crackdown, then Mosby and her hubby should be applauded for exposing that truth to the world. And instead of work slow-downs and ignoring calls that the cops are now participating in in Baltimore, every one of 'em who is incapable of completing a shift without doing something that will get them arrested like their six criminal brothers and sister, should all be fired forthwith.
The leader of the pack of jackals, Lt. Rice, should've been fired back when the Department deemed him so unstable that they confiscated all his guns and suspended him from duty......twice.
It is unfathomable to me that any thinking human being could think these cops are being railroaded. If that were true, then the treatment they gave Gray was just fine and dandy, and that too is an unfathomable thought to me.
Blues
S&W645
NRA Life Member
The problem with her conflict of interest is that she and her husband both will profit from what she did by telling the police to target that specific location. You might call it an abuse of power even though it might be the right thing to do. But when you issue such orders, and then go after those who were following them, that is where the conflict comes in. And yes, if the defendant's lawyers are smart, they will call her as a witness. Which means she cannot sit in the court room.
Other politicians profiting, that is why our local mayor got canned and found guilty. Link Removed
SR9
New member
BluesStringer
Les Brers
I have no problem with LE concentrating their efforts where the most crime is, so no, I don't call the initiative an abuse of power. But....
Come on 645, you know better than that. They weren't following those orders when they refused medical attention to Gray for more than 45 minutes while they went on a joy ride around town when the arrest was made only five blocks from the cop-shop where they (finally) called in medics to transport to a trauma unit after their joy ride was over. Mosby surely didn't tell them to do that, so where's the conflict of interest on her part? Because the most serious charges flow from their refusal(s) to get him help, which is 100% on them and not on Mosby in any way, shape, manner or form.
I was thinking at the beginning of this thing that the initial injury(s?) to Gray's spine could be legitimately excused as an accident during a take-down when they caught up to him. Instead, the only excuse coming out of the cop-shop is that he did it to himself during that 45 minute joy ride. Even if that were true (as if), he would've had much less time to do it in if they'd gone the two or three-minute drive to the cop-shop and processed him into the jail. Again, Mosby had/has nothing to do with that, and neither does the initiative she ordered.
Like I said before, whether witness or not, she will likely have no part in prosecuting the case in court. And considering that the crimes the officers are charged with have nothing at all to do with the lawful implementation of a lawful crime-prevention initiative, I find it hard to consider their defense attorneys "smart" for trying to change the subject from their alleged crimes to a conflict of interest case against Mosby in front of a judge. A case that could only be sustained if she actually did order them to unlawfully abuse prisoners and then deny them medical care. That didn't happen, and I'm dubious of the notion that a judge would take kindly to the defense thinking he's stupid enough to believe it happened, so I don't think such a tack would be smart at all.
Again, where's the conflict of interest? She told them to go fight crime, not commit crimes!
What secret jobs or pay-offs is Mosby accused of taking? I mean, good for those jurors in Homestead, they had the courage to hold a public official accountable for real crimes, but the way I see it, as much as I detest everything else about Mosby's politics, she is showing the same kind of courage by actually securing indictments against the Baltimore Six.
It's quite possible that there were uber-liberal, Democrat black jurors on your mayor's jury who benefited from affirmative action to get a law or some other kind of degree that affords them a good living, and maybe power and authority over others, at the expense of someone more qualified with better grades and all that stuff that people rightfully get frustrated over in this society. Are you second-guessing their decision in your mayor's guilty verdict? If not, then why second-guess Mosby's decision to do what very few prosecutors in this country ever do in their entire careers -- prosecute cops who prima facie evidence shows (at the very least) committed the crime of denying a prisoner who badly needed it, medical care?
In any case, I see no relationship between the "conflict of interest" you're trying to manufacture concerning Mosby, and a case already proved to the satisfaction of 12 jurors. The former mayor is much more analogous to the Baltimore Six than to Mosby, because all of the former are either convicted or accused criminals, and Mosby ain't never gonna catch a charge from anything she's said or done in the Freddie Gray murder case.
Blues
