Poll for those who carry an automatic, either open or concealed

[NavyLCDR]

Hey...one for me. It just means you are becoming wiser grasshopper.

Or maybe just the first time you posted anything worth agreeing with.

 

[Bikenut]

@ Bikenut,

The first reason listed from Wikipedia follows

Accidental discharge is the event of a firearm discharging (firing) at a time not intended by the user. Perhaps most commonly, accidental discharges (sometimes called ADs by military and police personnel and referred to as negligent discharges by several armies) occur when the trigger of the firearm is deliberately pulled for a purpose other than shooting—dry-fire practice, demonstration, or function testing—but ammunition is negligently left in the chamber.[1] Unintentionally leaving a firearm loaded is more likely to occur when the individual handling the gun is poorly trained, and perhaps also with removable-magazine-fed firearms (as the magazine may be removed, giving an unloaded appearance even when a round remains chambered—

I did run across a news article that mentioned that prior to switching from revolvers to Glocks, the NYPD had significantly fewer NDs. Training was listed as a prime cause. A gun blogger mentioned that police are not particularly well trained in arms, and their lack of training combined with complacency because they continually wear their firearms makes for a combination where NDs are more likely.

Thanks for your reply...

The blogger you mentioned points out what is the real reason for NDs.... lack of training and/or complacency... (and I'll add just plain foolishness and inattention) as being the cause of NDs instead of any mechanical means of function.

 

[Liberated Brit]

The chambered choice begs the question. The only semi-auto I would carry with one in the chamber is one that has a hammer and a firing pin block safety.

The majority of accidental discharges with semi-autos seem to occur with striker fired pistols that rely upon trigger pull distance to prevent accidental firing.

Hammerless pistols (striker-fired) are a lot easier to accidentally discharge than a DA/SA hammered one.

 

[tcox4freedom]

[h=2]for those who carry an automatic,[/h]

For the record- I don't own an "automatic" firearm. Nor, would I ever own one.
That being said I do own several "semiautomatic" firearms. The ones that can be carried cocked & locked are- the others are carried Plus 1.

-

 

[tcox4freedom]

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Automatic Pistol
A term used often to describe what is actually a semi-automatic pistol. It is, technically, a misnomer but a near-century of use has legitimized it, and its use confuses only the novice.

Since the OP stated earlier that it was the intent of this thread to address the beginner or novice, I think it's a good idea to also clear up any confusion between the terms: "automatic" vs "semiautomatic".

 

[NavyLCDR]

Since the OP stated earlier that it was the intent of this thread to address the beginner or novice, I think it's a good idea to also clear up any confusion between the terms: "automatic" vs "semiautomatic".

Ok, ok.....

A semi-automatic firearm is one which fires one round when the trigger is pulled and held to the rear and the next round is automatically loaded into the chamber. What is required for the next round to be fired depends upon the specific firearm. For most semi-automatic firearms all that is required for the next round to be fired is the trigger to be released until it resets, and then pulled to the rear again. A few firearms may require a hammer to be manually cocked before it will fire again.

The term automatic firearm technically refers to firearms which fire more than one round if the trigger is pulled and held to the rear. Burst mode automatic firearms will fire a specific number of rounds while the trigger is held to the rear, usually three rounds. Fully automatic firearms will continue to fire when the trigger is held to the rear until it jams, the belt fed ammunition runs out, or the clip is empty.

Yes, I went there for no other reason than to cause some people's heads to spin around and go into convulsions :sarcastic:

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Clip
A device for holding a group of cartridges. Semantic wars have been fought over the word, with some insisting it is not a synonym for "detachable magazine." For 80 years, however, it has been so used by manufacturers and the military. There is no argument that it can also mean a separate device for holding and transferring a group of cartridges to a fixed or detachable magazine or as a device inserted with cartridges into the mechanism of a firearm becoming, in effect, part of that mechanism.

This is a clip:

This is an ammunition magazine:

Notice where the magazines are located on this gun!:

 

[Firefighterchen]

Hammerless pistols (striker-fired) are a lot easier to accidentally discharge than a DA/SA hammered one.

Why?

Sent from my D6616 using USA Carry mobile app

 

[CharlesMorrison]

Because the trigger is SOOOO tempting to play with!

 

[ET]

You guys can continue your childish bickering... the poll confirms my opinion. the most profound thing in the comments was this...

Automatic Pistol
A term used often to describe what is actually a semi-automatic pistol. It is, technically, a misnomer but a near-century of use has legitimized it, and its use confuses only the novice.
Lots of confused Novices in this forum with school yard bully mentality... the problem I see in this forum is too many pimple face children are spending too much time in the bathroom, trying to get off, and when an adult or a real man comes into their gum forum they don't know how to react, but throw some cheap punches...

 

[NotTwoShure]

WOW! Now this was instruction. I could not even afford a .50 cal, let alone this baby.

(Sent by Smoke signals from Tucson I10)

Ok, ok.....

A semi-automatic firearm is one which fires one round when the trigger is pulled and held to the rear and the next round is automatically loaded into the chamber. What is required for the next round to be fired depends upon the specific firearm. For most semi-automatic firearms all that is required for the next round to be fired is the trigger to be released until it resets, and then pulled to the rear again. A few firearms may require a hammer to be manually cocked before it will fire again.

The term automatic firearm technically refers to firearms which fire more than one round if the trigger is pulled and held to the rear. Burst mode automatic firearms will fire a specific number of rounds while the trigger is held to the rear, usually three rounds. Fully automatic firearms will continue to fire when the trigger is held to the rear until it jams, the belt fed ammunition runs out, or the clip is empty.

Yes, I went there for no other reason than to cause some people's heads to spin around and go into convulsions :sarcastic:

Link Removed


This is a clip:

This is an ammunition magazine:

Notice where the magazines are located on this gun!:

 

[Firefighterchen]

You guys can continue your childish bickering... the poll confirms my opinion. the most profound thing in the comments was this...

Automatic Pistol
A term used often to describe what is actually a semi-automatic pistol. It is, technically, a misnomer but a near-century of use has legitimized it, and its use confuses only the novice.
Lots of confused Novices in this forum with school yard bully mentality... the problem I see in this forum is too many pimple face children are spending too much time in the bathroom, trying to get off, and when an adult or a real man comes into their gum forum they don't know how to react, but throw some cheap punches...

Grumpy old fool.

Sent from my D6616 using USA Carry mobile app

 

[JimTh]

Or maybe just the first time you posted anything worth agreeing with.

Or maybe the first time your eyes were open!

 

[Bikenut]

You guys can continue your childish bickering... the poll confirms my opinion. the most profound thing in the comments was this...

Automatic Pistol
A term used often to describe what is actually a semi-automatic pistol. It is, technically, a misnomer but a near-century of use has legitimized it, and its use confuses only the novice.
Lots of confused Novices in this forum with school yard bully mentality... the problem I see in this forum is too many pimple face children are spending too much time in the bathroom, trying to get off, and when an adult or a real man comes into their gum forum they don't know how to react, but throw some cheap punches...

Real men don't have to try to convince anyone about their manliness.

 

[XD40scinNC]

Grumpy old fool.

Sent from my D6616 using USA Carry mobile app

Someone has licked all the red of ET's candy cane. Made a fool of himself and is pissed at the world.

 

[r1derbike]

the problem I see in this forum is too many pimple face children are spending too much time in the bathroom, trying to get off, and when an adult or a real man comes into their gum forum they don't know how to react, but throw some cheap punches...

I really hate it when a self-professed adult or real man comes into my Wrigley's gum forum and starts spouting curmudgeon nonsense.

 

[NavyLCDR]

You guys can continue your childish bickering... the poll confirms my opinion. the most profound thing in the comments was this...

Automatic Pistol
A term used often to describe what is actually a semi-automatic pistol. It is, technically, a misnomer but a near-century of use has legitimized it, and its use confuses only the novice.
Lots of confused Novices in this forum with school yard bully mentality... the problem I see in this forum is too many pimple face children are spending too much time in the bathroom, trying to get off, and when an adult or a real man comes into their gum forum they don't know how to react, but throw some cheap punches...

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Most of the crowd brought firearms to the event, from long automatic rifles carried openly to concealed handguns in shoulder holsters.

I'm surprised there was no mention of "assault weapons."

 

[CharlesMorrison]

Link Removed



I'm surprised there was no mention of "assault weapons."

Because they didn't have THIS BABY!!

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[MHas]

Thank you for looking for stats. Many folks make statements and when politely asked for cites and/or links to back up their statements all that is heard is the deafening sound of crickets. It might not mean much but you have gained much respect in my eyes.

I'm (speaking only for myself) still not convinced that a striker fired pistol is inherently more dangerous, or perhaps I should say more prone to being handled in an unsafe manner that could cause an ND, than any other design simply because there are a plethora of revolvers out there that don't have an external safety and some striker fired pistols have a long and somewhat heavy trigger pull just like a revolver does.

And the WIKI quote in your post doesn't address any specific design of pistol but only mentions having a finger on the trigger causing the trigger to be pulled unintentionally... which also could happen with a revolver, a striker fired pistol with a long trigger pull, and any pistol with a mechanical safety that was neglected to be put on "safe" or has been intentionally taken off "safe" (which presumably would be the case during a struggle).

By the way.. that WIKI quote mentioned that the finger on the trigger is the ....second.... common cause of an accidental discharge (really an ND) so I'm curious.. what was considered the first cause?

While I understand that a striker fired pistol with the only external safety being the one in the trigger might cause concern for folks who are not confident in their ability to keep their booger hook off the bang switch the problem really isn't the lack of a traditional external safety.. the problem is folks negligently putting their fingers on the trigger before it is necessary to shoot causing an ND... and all firearms share that danger.

Actually, I personally think (just me again) that learning to rely on a traditional external safety could cause a false sense of security leading to an ND thinking the safety is "on" when it isn't. Again, the problem would be a finger on the trigger... traditional safety or not.

And I suspect there aren't any stats out there concerning how many NDs occurred with pistols that had a traditional external safety making a factual comparison a bit difficult.

To all... I apologize for the length of my post.

You're right. Keep your finger off the trigger. I switch back and for between carrying my S&W M&P 9mm and my Ruger SR22. I fell "safer" when carrying my SR22 with a round chambered than the M&P. SR22 is always condition 2. I prefer to carry my .22 because of the external safety. For those that want to give me crap for carrying a .22 save your breath. Bullet size only matters if you are firing 1 shot. In the case I'd need to use my sidearm, I wouldn't fire just once. I'd be unloading 11 rounds center mass in under 2 seconds. I use 40 gr high velocity copper plated rounds. I was told once .22 are not FMJ because technically the bullet is only coated with a thin layer of copper not a jacket. Is this true? I don't care if it's a .45 or .22, you take 11 rounds center mass, ya dead! Back to the safety, is a striker fired pistol with a round chambered condition 1 or 0? My m&p only has this stupid trigger safety.

 

[MHas]

You're right. Keep your finger off the trigger. I switch back and for between carrying my S&W M&P 9mm and my Ruger SR22. I fell "safer" when carrying my SR22 with a round chambered than the M&P. SR22 is always condition 2. I prefer to carry my .22 because of the external safety. For those that want to give me crap for carrying a .22 save your breath. Bullet size only matters if you are firing 1 shot. In the case I'd need to use my sidearm, I wouldn't fire just once. I'd be unloading 11 rounds center mass in under 2 seconds. I use 40 gr high velocity copper plated rounds. I was told once .22 are not FMJ because technically the bullet is only coated with a thin layer of copper not a jacket. Is this true? I don't care if it's a .45 or .22, you take 11 rounds center mass, ya dead! Back to the safety, is a striker fired pistol with a round chambered condition 1 or 0? My m&p only has this stupid trigger safety.

I did some testing. It is physically impossible to get any object in any of my holsters, never mind a finger to pull the trigger. Pen was to tight, BBQ skewer broke, a hook bent paperclip was not strong enough unless hooked all the way through and pulled with both hands. I now feel it was all mental. A safety is irrelevant no matter what kind. Unless you are Mexican carrying. I'd be scared to scratch my nuts. Once you draw your sidearm you should be firing. Depending on the model, an external safety may even cause you to "fumble" with it and waste precious milliseconds.

 

[MHas]

I did some testing. It is physically impossible to get any object in any of my holsters, never mind a finger to pull the trigger. Pen was to tight, BBQ skewer broke, a hook bent paperclip was not strong enough unless hooked all the way through and pulled with both hands. I now feel it was all mental. A safety is irrelevant no matter what kind. Unless you are Mexican carrying. I'd be scared to scratch my nuts. Once you draw your sidearm you should be firing. Depending on the model, an external safety may even cause you to "fumble" with it and waste precious milliseconds.

And if someone's finger is on the trigger before they "decide" to shoot or while holstering brainless. Isn't that rule #2? #1 don't point a firearm at anything you don't wish to destroy. #2 don't put your finger on the trigger until you're ready to fire. Sorry for the mult. Replies to myself.