I am new to this forum business, so you will have to excuse the stupid question, but what does it mean when you say "troll"?
Yeah, and those muzzle loaded pistols were HEAVY for a 16 year old! :sarcastic:
A troll is anyone who types something to specifically provoke some sort of emotional or irritable response from other posters on message boards and chat rooms for their own self-amusement. Like if I went into the Concealed Carry sub-forum and make a thread about why "open carry is SOOO much better," that might provoke some people.
LOL you must have not read the last two pages of posts. You can not be stopped for open carrying alone. They can respond to a call of a person with a gun. Come up and ask you what your doing. You have every right not to say anything. Open carrying alone is not reasonable suspicion of wrong doing to justify a stop. Case after case after case has shown this. Do cops still do it? Yes they do. Are they with in the law when doing so? NO they are not. File a suit on the town then file on on the department then file on on the officer him/her self. As for not knowing the laws that's a load of crap. Most departments carry the state Criminal code in the patrol car. I know i have My state Criminal code saved to my computer any and everything i can be arrested for is in it. I want to know why I'm being arrested ( If and when the time comes Never been arrested in my whole life and don't plan on starting now). But some times cops don't follow the full letter of the law. This is my way of calling what they are saying BS and knowing that I'm right. I would hope that all of you would have a copy of your states criminal code.
Hmmm... Let's see:
1. Armed man is walking down the street doing nothing illegal whatsoever, in complete compliance with the law.
2. Paranoid, prejudiced "citizen" calls police about a suspicious armed man but with no articulable suspicion of any crime being committed.
3. Police stop the law-abiding armed man, put him on the ground, detain him, disarm him, etc.
I guess I don't see what the debate is. Consider this slight change in the story:
1. Black man is walking down the street doing nothing illegal whatsoever, in complete compliance with the law.
2. Paranoid, prejudiced "citizen" calls police about a suspicious black man but with no articulable suspicion of any crime being committed.
3. Police stop the law-abiding black man, put him on the ground, detain him, disarm him, etc.
Wow--seems a little different now, doesn't it...
Why is detaining a law-abiding citizen because s/he is exercising his/her constitutionally-protected RKBA any more okay than detaining a law-abiding black man simply for walking down the street? Because of some other "citizen's" prejudicial "fear" or "suspicion"?
Whether the OP was seeking the confrontation or not is completely beside the point--so were the marchers in Selma. So were the black people who sat down at the dime-store lunch counters in the South. So was Rosa Parks. And you know what people said about them? "They're just seeking a confrontation." "They just pushing buttons to make trouble." "They're causing the problems themselves." "They're just uppity."
Well, maybe it's about time a few more of us who believe in the RKBA and the protections of the 2A get a little "uppity" too!
This may not make me popular, but of course the officers were right. To my knowkedge, the NRA only recognizes one circumstance where you surrender your piece, no questions, and that is at the request of a duly-appointed Law Enforcement Officer. Every NRA class I have taken has stressed this; black, white, myob, taking a stroll, doesn't matter: if an LE requests you surrender your weapon, do as directed. Be polite, and save the Constitutional rants for the OP ED page.
There are also certain areas illegal to carry in: Indian Reservations, Forestry Land, bars and restaurants that sell alcohol, and any place else you are requested to remove it from. If you bring a gun ion my house, you will be asked to remove it from the premises or place it in my custody while you are here. I and I alone carry a pistol in my home, and it is up to my discretion whether to enforce that or not. However, if I do, comply or leave. As far as I am concerned, refusing to disarm in my home or vehicle places me in a life-and-death situation. A twelve-year=old "Crip" wannabe tried to "make his bones (kill someone)" on me in my house one time during a neighborhood gettogether. Someone else saw him about to stab me, and dragged him away. The only way I even learned of it was that I found the knife they took from him, and, not recognizing it, asked questions until I finally got the whole story. "Don't tell Kevin" was pretty much the rule of thumb in situations like that, as most people mistook me for a "shoot first, ask questions later" type. The truth is, I have carried a pistol since age 16 (I'm 54 now) almost all the time, and, though I have had to pull it on several occassions, I have yet to find it necessary to fire. When dealing with LE, my SOP is to tell them I am carrying and ask if they would prefer to hold it during our encounter. Generaslly, they take it, run the numbers and me, and return it, often in the same Condition One (loaded, cocked, and locked) as I surrendered it in.
Word travels like lightening in the LE field, and more often than not, the officer tells me just to keep it holstered for the time being. Granted, one group of LEOs confiscated my .40 Taurus; I had to go to court to get it back, and when I did, they had broken the firing pin. But there were six of them and one of me, and the law was on their side (sic). Perhaps things did not go as they should have that day, but I am alive and well with my gun rights intact; that says something to me about the wisdom of politely complying. I know for a fact these officers, with whom I had had repeated encounteres with, akin to a "turf war", had no reservations about blowing me away. They tried everything short of planting evidence to get me on a felony charge, and when it became evident that was not going to happen, they tried to provoke me into a lopsided gun battle. I spent a night in jail on some trumped-up charge, which was dismissed immediately next morning, and am still around to tell of it. If a cop requests you to surrender your firearm, shut up and follow directions. My copy of the Constitution is not bullet-proof. screrw your rights; stay alive! Thank you.
KBV
+1 well put. thank youI live in one of the 90+ cities in St. Louis County, Missouri. The City of STL is not included in the county. The laws for Open Carry are different in each of the cities; about half permit it.
I've been CC'ing for a couple years now, and just recently discovered that my city of residence is one of those which permits OC. It never occurred to me to check before noiw.
I won't OC here for a number of reasons.
1. I've lived here for twenty-plus years and I know how people would react if they saw "a man with a gun" walking down the street or into one of the stores here. I have no intention of disturbing their lives just to prove a point or declare my lawful rights, when I can just as easily carry my PF-9 or Glock 26 in an IWB under an untucked shirt tail or t-shirt. I'll still be protecting myself and they'll never know. In fact, I performed a wedding this afternoon. None of the assembled multitude had any idea their Reverend was "packing" an evil black gun chock full of 9mm yumminess.
2. I see no reason to attract the attention of the local police, most of whom do not know that this city even allows OC. My experience is that most local LEO's know just enough of their municipality's laws to effectively control traffic, stop drunk drivers and call in for assistance if the situation gets out of hand. No offense intended, but most local cops are not lawyers nor do they have a book of local laws easily at hand. They just try to contain and control any given out-of-hand sitiuation.
3. I've always believed that the most visible threats will be the first threats minimized by bad guys. I learned that in the Army and decided I never wanted to be the guy carrying the M79. If I'm in a bank or a retail outlet suddenly invaded by gun-wielding thugs, they'll be looking for anyone who might pose a threat to their plan. They see a holster and a handgun on my hip, I'm a target. If I can keep my CC secret, I might have a chance to survive if I have to shoot to stop a threat to my life.
So, please, folks, drop the bravado, put your cell phone and Flip cams back into your pocket and quit antagonizing the LEO's who are really working on an impossible task that may become, in the months ahead, even more impossible: keeping the peace. Understand that the cops are as scared as you are of facing off with some nut with a gun.
2A is an important issue, but swaggering around with an AK47 "pistol" in a jerry-rigged holster or sling is really pretty stupid. Buy yourself an IWB holster, get a CC license, take some classes and relax.
While I am licensed to carry concealed in Texas and a buch of other states thank God, my personal opinion is you should be able to open carry if you wish, some of the open carry laws are very stupid ie: California, why carry an unloaded gun on you hip, while I am quite skilled in handgun use having the clips on the other side of the belt, you might as well carry a club (most likely cannot do this in CA). My suggestion is for all the good honest folks to get togeather and QUIT spending your money and time in any state that does not allow you to protect yourself, I re-scheduled my vacation from CA to AZ for just this reason, CA does not want my money, final statement while I think you should be able to carry in the open, if you are shot dead by a misinformed LO, you have not won the argument.
Push for open carry and legal carry Nationwide.
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