Ordered to ground at gunpoint for open carrying by cleveland heights ohio police

[rayven]

Also an armed man "pacing the block" could be enough to trigger a suspicious activity complaint and a search depending on state law.

It might trigger a suspicious activity complaint, and it would be perfectly reasonable for the police to respond and investigate. However, based on that alone, it could not legally trigger a search and/or seizure unless being armed is illegal in that particular area for some reason.

A person on public property has every right to be there, regardless of what the police say.

 

[Invisible_Dave]

On what justification?

Would a "black man 'pacing the block'...be enough to trigger a suspicious activity complaint and a search"?

What about a "white man 'pacing the block'"?

Or maybe a "man with an anti-abortion poster 'pacing the block'"?

What about a "woman with a 'Ron Paul for President' t-shirt 'pacing the block'"?

See the point? Why is it any more acceptable or reasonable for a law-abiding person to be stopped, searched, etc. because the right s/he is exercising is the RKBA than it is any other fundamental right?

I'd say any of those situations would be the same. A person of any race, creed, color, political idology pacing a block could be suspicious and trigger a complaint. My response didn't mention a side arm, only the potential behavior of the OP. Throw the gun out of the equation. You are sitting on the porch enjoying an adult beverage. You see a person pacing up and back around the block. I think it is a reasonable response to be suspicious, potentionally call in suspicious activity.

Now the police arrive. They see a man fitting the discription of someone "acting suspicious." Remember they likely have no other information at that time. As they pull up they this man has on a firearm, and is reaching into his pocket and pulling something else out and point it at them. (We of course know this to be a cell phone used to video the encounter)

Were the officers right? I don't know. I'm trying to play devils advocate.

 

[kbv]

This may not make me popular, but of course the officers were right. To my knowkedge, the NRA only recognizes one circumstance where you surrender your piece, no questions, and that is at the request of a duly-appointed Law Enforcement Officer. Every NRA class I have taken has stressed this; black, white, myob, taking a stroll, doesn't matter: if an LE requests you surrender your weapon, do as directed. Be polite, and save the Constitutional rants for the OP ED page.

There are also certain areas illegal to carry in: Indian Reservations, Forestry Land, bars and restaurants that sell alcohol, and any place else you are requested to remove it from. If you bring a gun ion my house, you will be asked to remove it from the premises or place it in my custody while you are here. I and I alone carry a pistol in my home, and it is up to my discretion whether to enforce that or not. However, if I do, comply or leave. As far as I am concerned, refusing to disarm in my home or vehicle places me in a life-and-death situation. A twelve-year=old "Crip" wannabe tried to "make his bones (kill someone)" on me in my house one time during a neighborhood gettogether. Someone else saw him about to stab me, and dragged him away. The only way I even learned of it was that I found the knife they took from him, and, not recognizing it, asked questions until I finally got the whole story. "Don't tell Kevin" was pretty much the rule of thumb in situations like that, as most people mistook me for a "shoot first, ask questions later" type. The truth is, I have carried a pistol since age 16 (I'm 54 now) almost all the time, and, though I have had to pull it on several occassions, I have yet to find it necessary to fire. When dealing with LE, my SOP is to tell them I am carrying and ask if they would prefer to hold it during our encounter. Generaslly, they take it, run the numbers and me, and return it, often in the same Condition One (loaded, cocked, and locked) as I surrendered it in.

Word travels like lightening in the LE field, and more often than not, the officer tells me just to keep it holstered for the time being. Granted, one group of LEOs confiscated my .40 Taurus; I had to go to court to get it back, and when I did, they had broken the firing pin. But there were six of them and one of me, and the law was on their side (sic). Perhaps things did not go as they should have that day, but I am alive and well with my gun rights intact; that says something to me about the wisdom of politely complying. I know for a fact these officers, with whom I had had repeated encounteres with, akin to a "turf war", had no reservations about blowing me away. They tried everything short of planting evidence to get me on a felony charge, and when it became evident that was not going to happen, they tried to provoke me into a lopsided gun battle. I spent a night in jail on some trumped-up charge, which was dismissed immediately next morning, and am still around to tell of it. If a cop requests you to surrender your firearm, shut up and follow directions. My copy of the Constitution is not bullet-proof. screrw your rights; stay alive! Thank you.

KBV

 

[utimmer43]

... screw your rights; stay alive! Thank you.KBV

Your entire rant is well summed up by your final statement. You would fit right in in Nazi Germany, The U.S.S.R., or N.Y.C.

 

[XD-Fender]

[O]f course the officers were right.

How so? What legal basis? Does the Constitution mean nothing? Would they have been "right" if, instead of exercising his 2A right, he was exercising his 1A right and carrying a sign protesting abortions or the Obama health plan, and they took away his sign?

To my knowkedge, the NRA only recognizes one circumstance where you surrender your piece, no questions, and that is at the request of a duly-appointed Law Enforcement Officer. Every NRA class I have taken has stressed this; black, white, myob, taking a stroll, doesn't matter: if an LE requests you surrender your weapon, do as directed. Be polite, and save the Constitutional rants for the OP ED page.

You are confusing "doing the smart thing" with what is "right"--of course the "smart" think in the situation is to turn over your gun; do you want to get into a shootout with a cop? But that doesn't make it "right" or "lawful" for the cop to order you to do so. It's also the "smart" thing to do to not try to fight the police off if they make an illegal search of your home or car--you take them to court on it later. But it doesn't mean that they acted legall in doing so.

There are also certain areas illegal to carry in: Indian Reservations, Forestry Land, bars and restaurants that sell alcohol, and any place else you are requested to remove it from.

True--and also mostly unconstitutional, when the 2A is properly applied. Unfortunately, we have to fight tooth and nail to return the 2A to its proper interpretation--and here's the kicker: Primarily because not enough of us law-abiding citizens have asserted and exercised our RKBA as freely as the guy did in this video. It is we who have allowed the RKBA to be repeatedly infringed by such laws, and now we are on the defensive in trying to reestablish the correct boundaries.

If you bring a gun ion my house, you will be asked to remove it from the premises or place it in my custody while you are here. I and I alone carry a pistol in my home, and it is up to my discretion whether to enforce that or not. However, if I do, comply or leave.

Perfectly within your rights. And I also will not be visiting you in your home. If I am not welcome there armed, I am not welcome there. And that's just fine.

As far as I am concerned, refusing to disarm in my home or vehicle places me in a life-and-death situation.

That's the kind of alarmist clap-trap that the antis spew all the time--we are dangerous and a threat to others when we are armed. What a load of crap. I know--and I can say this with certainty based on long experience--that I am far better qualified and able with my firearm than the average police officer (and that is not a slam on cops). Yet we don't pee ourselves over cops moving around all over our society with guns. I am no more a threat to you armed than I am unarmed (unless you attack me, of course).

A twelve-year=old "Crip" wannabe tried to "make his bones (kill someone)" on me in my house one time during a neighborhood gettogether. Someone else saw him about to stab me, and dragged him away. The only way I even learned of it was that I found the knife they took from him, and, not recognizing it, asked questions until I finally got the whole story. "Don't tell Kevin" was pretty much the rule of thumb in situations like that, as most people mistook me for a "shoot first, ask questions later" type. The truth is, I have carried a pistol since age 16 (I'm 54 now) almost all the time, and, though I have had to pull it on several occassions, I have yet to find it necessary to fire.

Nice stories--and completely irrelevant. The "crip wannabe" brought a knife to your house and he would have even if you told him not to. What does that have to do with a law-abiding citizen exercising his RKBA? Absolutely nothing.

When dealing with LE, my SOP is to tell them I am carrying and ask if they would prefer to hold it during our encounter. Generaslly, they take it, run the numbers and me, and return it, often in the same Condition One (loaded, cocked, and locked) as I surrendered it in.***Word travels like lightening in the LE field, and more often than not, the officer tells me just to keep it holstered for the time being. Granted, one group of LEOs confiscated my .40 Taurus; I had to go to court to get it back, and when I did, they had broken the firing pin. But there were six of them and one of me, and the law was on their side (sic). Perhaps things did not go as they should have that day, but I am alive and well with my gun rights intact; that says something to me about the wisdom of politely complying. I know for a fact these officers, with whom I had had repeated encounteres with, akin to a "turf war", had no reservations about blowing me away. They tried everything short of planting evidence to get me on a felony charge, and when it became evident that was not going to happen, they tried to provoke me into a lopsided gun battle. I spent a night in jail on some trumped-up charge, which was dismissed immediately next morning, and am still around to tell of it.

How, exactly, was "the law...on their side"? Unless you committed some kind of offense, what legal and constitutional basis did they have for confiscating your firearm, let alone damaging it? Unless you haven't told the whole story here, they grossly violated your constitutional rights, and should have been sued for doing so. Your story only reaffirms the point that our RKBA is at risk and can be--and too often is--violated by the government. I don't see how you think that this supports the position that the guy in the video was wrong and the cops were right. If anything, it's a point to the contrary.

If a cop requests you to surrender your firearm, shut up and follow directions. My copy of the Constitution is not bullet-proof.

Again, you are confusing "smart" with right. See my first point above.

screrw your rights; stay alive! Thank you.

Thank God that our Founding Fathers and the great patriots who threw off the tyranny of England in the 1700s didn't think the way you do...

I'll keep my rights, thank you very much. Sure, I'll be smart, and I'm not going to fight an LEO that tries to violate them--at least not until I see him/her in court. Then I'll give him/her a nice, solid kick in the legal balls. Thank you very much.

 

[ecocks]

Second most of the above post.

Me coming into your home or riding in your car while wearing my gun does not in any way place you in a "life or death situation". Say that in a courtroom and you're an idiot or trying to set yourself up for some sort of mentally disturbed plea.

Likewise, there is no restriction in carrying on ALL Forestry Lands, you need to review your laws to determine the different types of lands they administer. Parks, Wilderness, National Forests, etc. are not all the same especially during hunting season and with the new Park carry laws changing in 2010.

The carrying in bars and restaurants varies by state.

I'm one of those who always identifies to a LEO that I'm carrying whether the state requires me to or not.

More than likely I would surrender my weapon when "asked" but if ordered, I might just ask, "Why?"

If the officer tells me that it's for his safety while we talk, that is probably good enough but depends on the situation.

 

[utimmer43]

Beauty rant there XD!:yu: (I didn't have the time or attention span to compose my own rant last night:biggrin

 

[infntrysuicdekng]

do you really blame them

i dont mean to be a rant killer... but do you really blame them, I was always taught that if someones hand comes within 8 in of the weopon they carry then they are a threat. the problem with open carry when walking normally you hand swings that close. I may be mistaken but isnt this law a new one. so these cops arent use to it, give them a year or two and it will be alot more lax.

 

[utimmer43]

... I may be mistaken but isnt this law a new one. so these cops arent use to it, give them a year or two and it will be alot more lax.

If you are talking about OC being legal, the answer is no, it is not new.

...do you really blame them, I was always taught that if someones hand comes within 8 in of the weopon they carry then they are a threat. the problem with open carry when walking normally you hand swings that close.

7 years too late: Columbus Dispatch finally discovers open carry isn't a viable self-defense option for Ohioans

3. Officer safety must always be a paramount concern and goal for peace officers. However, officers should not consider openly carrying a firearm as per se suspicious or criminal conduct. Openly carrying a firearm does not automatically equate into a Disorderly Conduct (R.C. § 2917.11) or Inducing Panic (R.C. § 2817.31) charge. To take this position would be tantamount to taking a position that a person may not exercise their statutory or constitutional rights without risking constant “Terry stops” or police arrest. This position is obviously problematic. Instead, the officer or the dispatcher needs to look at the totality of the circumstances. Is there reasonable, articulable suspicion that criminal conduct is occurring? What are the facts and circumstances, beyond the mere presence of a firearm, that indicate it is reasonable to suspect criminal activity?

Simply reacting to every single “man with a gun” situation as an automatic “Terry stop” or felony stop will clearly have a chilling effect on the exercise of these rights by citizens, thus potentially opening the officer and the department up to civil liability. Officers and dispatchers should carefully question informants when being dispatched on these types of calls to verify what allegations of further suspicious or criminal conduct, if any, the suspect is engaged in. In a non-dispatch or informant situation, where the officer directly observes the conduct of the suspect, the officer should be ready to articulate what factors beyond the mere carrying of the firearm prompted the official police interaction with the suspect.

 

[eckersr]

As a retired police officer and a private citizen I see what you are trying to do. You just need to understand that even though it may be legal to openly carry your gun, you run the risk of being confronted by the police. Like it or not. They are justified in contacting a man carrying a gun in public. They are even have the authority to take you down at gun poin if the situation calls for it.. As the oficers said, they were called, they dont know who you are, and they need to investigate and detain you until they can determine what is going on. In some states open carry is only legal if the firearm is unloaded. In that situation the police can stop you in order to determine if the firearm is in fact unloaded. Open carry in California has been legal for a long long time as long as the gun is unloaded , carried open ly on the belt, not covered in the very least bit and you do not have ammunition on your body. In that 20 years I have never encountered someone openly carrying a firarm. Maybe someone else has but not me. So either get used to being stopped at times and possibley at gun point or carry concealed. You made your point but you could have also been killed.

It is my opinion that you fully expected the police to do what they did. The only reason that you went "out for a stroll" was to bait the police and record their response. You were carrying a video camera device and the law book in your back pocket. Dont act surprised by what the police did. You fully expected it. It was wrong for you to go about things in this manner. If I was on patrol and saw you walking down the street with a video camera on your shoulder and a firearm strapped to your side I would think you were a nut. As a private citizen I think you are a nut ,only because of the way you went about things. I can bet you that the police already have a nick name for you down at the police department. You will be the PD's talk of the night for weeks. The last thing you want is for the police to know your name. I am all for the rights of private citizens to lawfully carry concealed and openly. I dont like the fact that we have to apply for and jump through hoops to get a CCW. I hope to see the day when carring concealed is up to the citizen provided he is not legally prevented. Dont forget that the poeple and the police still have all of the past and present school, mall, gym etc. shootings on their minds.

DONT FORGET...it was a private citizen who called the police regarding your carrying a gun So maybe you should vent your anger at the citizen who made the call. Apparently she had a problem with it. The police just responded to the report.

Open carry is something that will take time for the police and the general public to get used to.

 

[Boomboy007]

I pity the public that you served....

As a retired police officer and a private citizen I see what you are trying to do. You just need to understand that even though it may be legal to openly carry your gun, you run the risk of being confronted by the police. Like it or not. They are justified in contacting a man carrying a gun in public. They are even justified in taking you down at gun point. As the oficers said, they were called, they dont know who you are, and they need to investigate and detain you until they can determine what is going on. In some states open carry is only legal if the firearm is unloaded. In that situation the police can stop you in order to determine if the firearm is in fact unloaded. So either get used to being stopped at gun point or carry concealed. You made your point but you could have also been killed.

As a former police officer who quit after three years of watching the constitutional rights of my fellow citizens being trampled upon as if old King George were still in authority, I can comfortably say that you are absolutely wrong. There is absolutely no reason that this individual should have been "taken down" for any reason. The para militarization of our modern police force is responsible for this kind of attitude, and the courts have been remiss in not correcting it long ago.

Whether it be abuse of the "Terry" stop authority, or abuse of the "No Knock" warrant, our modern police forces are beginning to resemble the police of a third world banana republic. This kind of attitude is the reason why Jefferson promoted the right to keep and bear arms; to protect (themselves) against tyranny in government.

I've asked it before, and I will ask it again: What happened to the civil in civil service?

You just need to understand that even though it may be legal to openly carry your gun, you run the risk of being confronted by the police. Like it or not.

:angry:

No, sir. Like it or not, it is YOU and your fellow officers who are going to have to understand that YOU are going to be confronted by citizens exercising their constitutional right, under both the federal AND state law, to openly carry a firearm. You need to learn that, if it is good enough for the police, it should be good enough for the people. Your REAL authority is derived from the badge; do you really think that you should have a monopoly on self protection? When the police can GUARANTEE the safety of the public, be they male, female, black white, or other, then I will hear your complaint with a little compassion. I still won't agree, but at least you will have some ground on which to argue.

 

[sambo42xa]

.....my turn........If you watch any of the video's from our guy here in NH, Mr. Ridley, He exercises His/Our Rights by OCing here in NH. You'll see that no officer's take his firearm or handcuffs him. When asked for ID, He simply states that NH is an OC state (which They know anyway) and that OCing does not require proof of Permit/ID. He speaks to the officer's with respect, and from what I see causes no illegal disturbances in any of his video's. He informs the officer's that They are being video taped and/or recorded. The police are just responding to a call made which They have too investigate. They ask alot of questions, but he never shows proof of ID.
If some of you never heard of him, check it out. He is on youtube. Also has his own website. I am not advertising any of his so called stop's with law enforcement or anything else. Just something to watch how he exercises His/Our Rights. He is definately a good talker.....
I do not know the links but if you punch in one of the following, I'm sure you'll find some.
*Ridley Report
*Manchester NH
The OP in My opinion seems like he was doing kind of the same thing this Ridley guy does, only in this case the officers put him down on the ground, take his weapon and handcuff him....which you do not see in the video.

 

[XD-Fender]

As a retired police officer and a private citizen I see what you are trying to do. You just need to understand that even though it may be legal to openly carry your gun, you run the risk of being confronted by the police. Like it or not. They are justified in contacting a man carrying a gun in public. They are even justified in taking you down at gun point.

Huh?! Just how in the world are they "justified in taking you down at gun point"?! It's called a constitutional right, for God's sake. And you assert that they are "justified" in threatening deadly force against you because you exercise that right?! Good Lord. We don't quite live in that kind of police state (at least not yet).

That is as completly incorrect a statement as I have yet seen on this forum. They are not in any way "justified in taking you down at gun point" if you are not doing anything illegal or that creates reasonable suspicion of illegality--an simply exercising your natural, God-given RKBA is not such a thing.

This is precisely the mentality that has permitted us to slide to this place in history where we so readily allow our rights to be trampled--we just assume that it's "justified" when it absolutely, unequivocally is not!

As the oficers said, they were called, they dont know who you are, and they need to investigate and detain you until they can determine what is going on.

On what basis? Because some lilly-livered sheep saw a law-abiding citizen walking down the street exercising his rights? Why to "they need to investigate and detain" anybody? There's been no crime committed, there isn't even a suggestion that any crime has been committed or is about to be committed. Apply your logic to a guy walking down the street exercising his 1st Amendment rights; would you say the same thing? Of course not! So why, for Pete's sake, would you say it about somebody exercising his 2nd Amendment right???

In some states open carry is only legal if the firearm is unloaded. In that situation the police can stop you in order to determine if the firearm is in fact unloaded.

Which is both blatently unconstitutional and completely irrelevant to this case, which occurred in a jurisdiction where open carry of a fully-loaded firearm is not even purported to be illegal, but is clearly lawful.

So either get used to being stopped at gun point or carry concealed. You made your point but you could have also been killed.

Yet another person who apparently believe that we should be sheep and just accept the state's trampling on our constitutional right and stop exercising it because the state will threaten us if we do.

Good Lord help us...

 

[AZ-G27]

Hello all,
First post on this forum, just found it today.

I will start by saying I live in AZ and OC almost everywhere i go. I dont have a CCW yet, but plan on obtaining one soon. I OC every day whether it be a walk down to the gas station or a trip to a friend's house. The G27 goes everywhere with me. It's in my car at work with me right now.

I have somewhat mixed feelings about this whole situation.

I do not agree with what this guy did. I in no way go around trying to provoke a response from anyone, LEO or citizen. In one case i went to the local sub shop and walked in the door at the same time as 3 Mesa PD officers. They didnt even give me a second glance.

I do believe that in a OC state, the LEO's know the law enough to know that someone walking with a holstered gun on their hip, not provoking anybody does not need to be dealt with in the manner they did in this video. This guy did something to make the officer react the way he did. Plainly walking down the street does not constitute a "face-down, on the ground" response.

Still however, the police took it a little too far to take him down at gunpoint, especially if he had not even gestured towards reaching for his gun. In which case, he probably would never have had the chance to post the video himself.

I have ridden my bike down the sidewalk at night without lights, 27 on my hip road-side. Passed a cop patroling the neighborhood and I could have been stopped just for not having lights on my bike. I'm sure he saw the gun on my hip, but didnt bother me a bit.

Walking around recording your "leisurley stroll" with your gun is just asking for trouble.

I cant really say i can take either side in this as it seems to me both were wrong.

But that's just what i feel. Love the site, it's been really helpful over the past few hours of boredom at work.

 

[AZ-G27]

QUOTE=Boomboy007;87292]:angry:

No, sir. Like it or not, it is YOU and your fellow officers who are going to have to understand that YOU are going to be confronted by citizens exercising their constitutional right, under both the federal AND state law, to openly carry a firearm. You need to learn that, if it is good enough for the police, it should be good enough for the people. Your REAL authority is derived from the badge; do you really think that you should have a monopoly on self protection? When the police can GUARANTEE the safety of the public, be they male, female, black white, or other, then I will hear your complaint with a little compassion. I still won't agree, but at least you will have some ground on which to argue.[/QUOTE]

I do fully agree with this statement... leasantry:

 

[kbv]

The "no-carry in my house" rule went into effect after some fool at a poker party pulled out his piece and passed it around the table, cocked and locked. At least two other players thought it was funny to point the piece at others; I don't. A lot of people carry in my home, but not unless I say so. If you can't live with that, you don't belong here anyway. Call it respect. On being invited into a person's home I have not been to before, I always inform them I am packing, and if they ask, I will either put the piece in my car, or leave.

As for the crack about me in Nazi Germany, I'd be likely to pound you if you said that to my face (I say "likely"; take that any way you like). I write letters to congress, and can quote AND define the 2nd Amendment off the top of my head. Even the big words, like "well-regulated", "necessary", and "infringed". And every one of my "stories" applies here, because they point up the trend of people to just sit back and watch, convinced it can't happen to them. Your opinion of me is not as important as the mosquito bite I didn't get last night, but I take humbrage at having my thoughts, beliefs, and actions, particularly the message "don't just sit there, do something" diluted with personal attacks on my character and fitness to be a citizen of this great nation. If you want to make your point, send it to Congress (I have). Don't widen the gap between us further because you don't like the way I phrased something. We need unity, not bickering and back-biting amongst ourselves.

I don't mind being corrected when I'm wrong, even called on to answer to it, but I draw the line at mud-slinging. Of course, I realize not everyone who posts here is dedicated to keeping our 2A Rights intact; smoke and mirrors can be very effective. Keep your powder dry.

KBV

 

[S&WM&P40]

I'd be likely to pound you if you said that to my face

How old are you twelve? If you are carrying around that much anger you should not be carrying a firearm. You seem to be the kind of nut job we read about in the news who gets angry and starts shooting. If you cant even handle feedback on a public forum HANG UP THE GUNS.

 

[Cobra]

The last couple of questions by the police bother me .... where are you going, do you need a gun to go for a walk, where are you coming from .... all those are totally none of the laws business. Since when do we have to report to the police where and why we are coming or going from anywhere? It happened to me (not the open carry part) but during a traffic stop, I was asked questions like that. The cop had a huge attitude problem when I asked him who needs to know WHERE I was coming from. It's a good thing I didn't answer, I was coming from home - to go eat - and just so happens a gas station I passed on the way into town (only a half mile from my house) was ROBBED at gunpoint, my truck matched the description of the suspect vehicle, a BLACK FORD F-150 4X4 PICKUP TRUCK, ONE WHITE MALE ---- I had my .45 and CCW ..... which was presented to him and the other 5 police officers that surrounded me. So YOU tell me about NOT saying anything except - what am I being detained for, and why did you stop me?

 

[S&WM&P40]

This may not make me popular, but of course the officers were right. To my knowkedge, the NRA only recognizes one circumstance where you surrender your piece, no questions, and that is at the request of a duly-appointed Law Enforcement Officer. Every NRA class I have taken has stressed this; black, white, myob, taking a stroll, doesn't matter: if an LE requests you surrender your weapon, do as directed. Be polite, and save the Constitutional rants for the OP ED page.

There are also certain areas illegal to carry in: Indian Reservations, Forestry Land, bars and restaurants that sell alcohol, and any place else you are requested to remove it from. If you bring a gun ion my house, you will be asked to remove it from the premises or place it in my custody while you are here. I and I alone carry a pistol in my home, and it is up to my discretion whether to enforce that or not. However, if I do, comply or leave. As far as I am concerned, refusing to disarm in my home or vehicle places me in a life-and-death situation. A twelve-year=old "Crip" wannabe tried to "make his bones (kill someone)" on me in my house one time during a neighborhood gettogether. Someone else saw him about to stab me, and dragged him away. The only way I even learned of it was that I found the knife they took from him, and, not recognizing it, asked questions until I finally got the whole story. "Don't tell Kevin" was pretty much the rule of thumb in situations like that, as most people mistook me for a "shoot first, ask questions later" type. The truth is, I have carried a pistol since age 16 (I'm 54 now) almost all the time, and, though I have had to pull it on several occassions, I have yet to find it necessary to fire. When dealing with LE, my SOP is to tell them I am carrying and ask if they would prefer to hold it during our encounter. Generaslly, they take it, run the numbers and me, and return it, often in the same Condition One (loaded, cocked, and locked) as I surrendered it in.

Word travels like lightening in the LE field, and more often than not, the officer tells me just to keep it holstered for the time being. Granted, one group of LEOs confiscated my .40 Taurus; I had to go to court to get it back, and when I did, they had broken the firing pin. But there were six of them and one of me, and the law was on their side (sic). Perhaps things did not go as they should have that day, but I am alive and well with my gun rights intact; that says something to me about the wisdom of politely complying. I know for a fact these officers, with whom I had had repeated encounteres with, akin to a "turf war", had no reservations about blowing me away. They tried everything short of planting evidence to get me on a felony charge, and when it became evident that was not going to happen, they tried to provoke me into a lopsided gun battle. I spent a night in jail on some trumped-up charge, which was dismissed immediately next morning, and am still around to tell of it. If a cop requests you to surrender your firearm, shut up and follow directions. My copy of the Constitution is not bullet-proof. screrw your rights; stay alive! Thank you.

KBV

Try and dig down real deep and find your back bone and maybe your balls. Stand up for your self for gods sake man. No one else will if your not even willing to stand up for your self as a human never mind your rights given to you by the founding fathers. Where the hell do you live? Sounds like you live on a movie set for the sequel to "Training Day". Film them and get it on tape and get the thugs with badges off the streets. Call the FBI and file a report with them about the police department.

 

[S&WM&P40]

.....my turn........If you watch any of the video's from our guy here in NH, Mr. Ridley, He exercises His/Our Rights by OCing here in NH. You'll see that no officer's take his firearm or handcuffs him. When asked for ID, He simply states that NH is an OC state (which They know anyway) and that OCing does not require proof of Permit/ID. He speaks to the officer's with respect, and from what I see causes no illegal disturbances in any of his video's. He informs the officer's that They are being video taped and/or recorded. The police are just responding to a call made which They have too investigate. They ask alot of questions, but he never shows proof of ID.
If some of you never heard of him, check it out. He is on youtube. Also has his own website. I am not advertising any of his so called stop's with law enforcement or anything else. Just something to watch how he exercises His/Our Rights. He is definately a good talker.....
I do not know the links but if you punch in one of the following, I'm sure you'll find some.
*Ridley Report
*Manchester NH
The OP in My opinion seems like he was doing kind of the same thing this Ridley guy does, only in this case the officers put him down on the ground, take his weapon and handcuff him....which you do not see in the video.

YouTube - Open Carry Legal in New Hampshire?


Also check this video out i think it was posted on here already at some point.


YouTube - BUSTED: The Citizen's Guide to Surviving Police Encounters